[Archived] happy st george's day

[thenodrog]

I'm not Christian anyway, so saints mean nothing to me, but even following Christian logic I can't grasp this one. Why George?

Here.... You need to kick off on the right foot so just in case they ask you as a condition of entry......

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_is_the_patron_saint_of_Tanzania.

Tell me Jeru if you are not a Christian then why do you choose to live and work (and whinge) in majority Christian countries? Are there no countries that are predominantly populated by whatever your own religion is that require immigrant labour? If there are then surely for a full and satisfied life thats where you should be heading isn't it? No point being permanantly embittered for the rest of your days is it?

[Al]

For Christ's sake it's a tradition and we have all too few of them. We celebrate it as proud English persons. Who cares what the origins are? It gives us a day to celebrate being English, which as far as I am concerned is a privilage.

[Biddy]

I think Jeru is getting some pretty unfair flack on here for only asking questions and seeking confirmation or opinion. Are people not allowed to question the status quo these days?

In response to Jeru however, most saints do not originate from countries that adopt them. It is the ideals of the saint that historically people buy into. The BBC's religion website has a pretty good write up on Saint George and his origins. I think this line shows why he became loved by the English through the ages "He's popularly identified with England and English ideals of honour, bravery and gallantry". He became a saint as he refused to persecute Christians when he was a Roman soldier and was tortured and beheaded for his beliefs. I think that's pretty noble and worthwhile of Christian celebration.

Its a shame we don't celebrate Saint Georges Day with a bit more pride in this country. I suppose at least we don't just use it as an excuse to drink copious amounts of Guiness.

For Christ's sake it's a tradition and we have all too few of them. We celebrate it as proud English persons. Who cares what the origins are? It gives us a day to celebrate being English, which as far as I am concerned is a privilage.

I agree Al, but what celebrations actually were there. Most people didn't even realise it was St Georges Day yesterday. In fact the internet generation were more fascinated by the "Spectrum Google Doodle" over it actually being a picture of George and the Dragon.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

Thanks, Biddy. I still think there's probably better people we could use for a celebration of national pride, people with a little stronger connection to England, that's all I'm saying.

Here.... You need to kick off on the right foot so just in case they ask you as a condition of entry......

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_is_the_patron_saint_of_Tanzania.

Tell me Jeru if you are not a Christian then why do you choose to live and work (and whinge) in majority Christian countries? Are there no countries that are predominantly populated by whatever your own religion is that require immigrant labour? If there are then surely for a full and satisfied life thats where you should be heading isn't it? No point being permanantly embittered for the rest of your days is it?

I know you don't believe anyone could possibly be happy outside Britain, but could you please stop turning every discussion into a debate about where I choose to live. I appreciate your concern, but it's time to let it go, your obsession with my place of residence is becoming embarrassing.

[jim mk2]

I understand the concept, I just don't think it's a value that should be highly prized. But still there is no semblance of a reasonable explanation why St. George has anything to do with England.

I give up, though. You're obviously not going to come up with an answer, you're just going to tell me that my understanding is limited by the fact that I like to think about things rather than just accepting them.

I have thought about it and although I know St George is not English I do not think it matters. Patriotism and loyalty are very highly prized in my book while disloyalty to one's country is inexcusable.

[SouthAussieRover]

Youre wasting your time Jeru.

I'd like to know how Jim coped when Maggie was whipping up the country's patriotic fervour.

[Al]

I think Jeru is getting some pretty unfair flack on here for only asking questions and seeking confirmation or opinion. Are people not allowed to question the status quo these days?

In response to Jeru however, most saints do not originate from countries that adopt them. It is the ideals of the saint that historically people buy into. The BBC's religion website has a pretty good write up on Saint George and his origins. I think this line shows why he became loved by the English through the ages "He's popularly identified with England and English ideals of honour, bravery and gallantry". He became a saint as he refused to persecute Christians when he was a Roman soldier and was tortured and beheaded for his beliefs. I think that's pretty noble and worthwhile of Christian celebration.

Its a shame we don't celebrate Saint Georges Day with a bit more pride in this country. I suppose at least we don't just use it as an excuse to drink copious amounts of Guiness.

I agree Al, but what celebrations actually were there. Most people didn't even realise it was St Georges Day yesterday. In fact the internet generation were more fascinated by the "Spectrum Google Doodle" over it actually being a picture of George and the Dragon.

No Jeru is just another WUM who likes to come on and post something controversial to get a reaction.

Not my problem if people don't have enough national pride to recognise it. I do, even if it is only a flag in my garden.

[Biddy]

No Jeru is just another WUM who likes to come on and post something controversial to get a reaction.

Not my problem if people don't have enough national pride to recognise it. I do, even if it is only a flag in my garden.

Blimey, you get wound up easily then. Surely the whole point in the question originally put was that there is nothing intrinsically linking St George to England therefore it doesn't actually represent national pride. St George is only a patron saint adopted by the Christian church, not a national figure.

Indeed, again from the BBC site

"He is patron saint not only of England but also of Aragon, Catalonia, Georgia, Lithuania, Palestine, Portugal, Germany and Greece; and of Moscow, Istanbul, Genoa and Venice (second to Saint Mark). He's also patron saint of soldiers, archers, cavalry and chivalry, farmers and field workers, riders and saddlers, and he helps those suffering from leprosy, plague and syphilis. In recent years he has been adopted as patron saint of Scouts"

Spreads his sainthood far to thinly that guy!

[Al]

Blimey, you get wound up easily then. Surely the whole point in the question originally put was that there is nothing intrinsically linking St George to England therefore it doesn't actually represent national pride. St George is only a patron saint adopted by the Christian church, not a national figure.

It's not just what he originally says, it's the underlying reason for saying it and the way he reacts to replies. Don't tell me "OK to be Xenophobic day" was not there to provoke a reaction.

[BiggusLaddus]

There's nothing wrong with xenophobia anyway, it's a perfectly healthy position for an island nation to take.

And perfectly understandable when your nearest neighbours are the French.

[jim mk2]

I'd like to know how Jim coped when Maggie was whipping up the country's patriotic fervour.

I supported the troops but not the war. Good try.

I still think there's probably better people we could use for a celebration of national pride, people with a little stronger connection to England, that's all I'm saying.

Seeing as you always denigrate Britain (and England in particular) come up with some suggestions.

[thenodrog]

I supported the troops but not the war. Good try.

And if it kicks off again? The Argies are beating their drum again and our forces aren't what they were 30 years ago.

I know you don't believe anyone could possibly be happy outside Britain, but could you please stop turning every discussion into a debate about where I choose to live. I appreciate your concern, but it's time to let it go, your obsession with my place of residence is becoming embarrassing.

Tell you what I'll take a leaf out of your book by repeating the question until I get a proper answer.

"Tell me Jeru if you are not a Christian then why do you choose to live and work (and whinge) in majority Christian countries? Are there no countries that are predominantly populated by whatever your own religion is that require immigrant labour? If there are then surely for a full and satisfied life thats where you should be heading isn't it? No point being permanantly embittered for the rest of your days is it?"

[jim mk2]

And if it kicks off again? The Argies are beating their drum again and our forces aren't what they were 30 years ago.

It won't "kick off" again because although our forces have been run down Argentina is even weaker.

[HemelRover]

Tell you what I'll take a leaf out of your book by repeating the question until I get a proper answer.

"Tell me Jeru if you are not a Christian then why do you choose to live and work (and whinge) in majority Christian countries? Are there no countries that are predominantly populated by whatever your own religion is that require immigrant labour? If there are then surely for a full and satisfied life thats where you should be heading isn't it? No point being permanantly embittered for the rest of your days is it?"

From what I understand of Jeru's decision to move, it has nothing to do with the main religion(and I dispite that Christianity is the majority religion now in the UK/Britian) of this country.

[jim mk2]

From what I understand of Jeru's decision to move, it has nothing to do with the main religion(and I dispite that Christianity is the majority religion now in the UK/Britian) of this country.

Year ago but I doubt it has changed much.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/poll-majority-in-britain-still-christian-49625/

[HemelRover]

I wonder how many of that 57% could name more than one chapter or book in either bible? or how many of them venture into church for anything other than the new holy trinity of weddings funerals and baptisms?

Its one of the beauties of christianity is that it does not demand much of its followers for them to be able to say that they are christians.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

My house is actually in a majority Muslim area. You'll find that the Muslim areas (largely the mainland's northern coast as well as Zanzibar) have their own culture and Zanzibar is also semi-autonomous. As for any Christian influences in the legal system, the tenets of the Abrahamic faiths that make their way into law are much alike unless you live under absolute sharia.

Religion had nothing to do with the move, but people can be happy being part of a minority.

I'm not sure what other answer you want me to give. Christianity just doesn't play much of a part in my daily life.

As for Britain having a Christian majority, how many of those "Christians" celebrate on December 25th? Christian scholars largely agree that Jesus wasn't born in the winter and the likelihood is that the Church simply aligned its own festivals with pagan traditions to make the transition easier for the pagan people of Europe. Similar story with Easter.

Then there's the way that Christian traditions are observed. How many people remember Lent? Far fewer than expect to eat chocolate on Easter Sunday or receive presents on Christmas Day, no doubt. If people were really Christian then would they not guard their religion with a little more care?

Britain may be Christian in theory, but in practice it is a secular, materialistic society.

As for being a WUM, I'd actually rather there was no response to this post. The questions are all rhetorical, the points I've made aren't really open for a great deal of debate, so really there is no reason for anyone to keep this going. I have little doubt, however, that I'll be asked more personal questions despite only having opined on an altogether more general issue.

[ABBEY]

have you worked christmas day and easter?

[MarkBRFC71]

The "why" is irrelevant. It's ancient history. The fact is he is, so our national day is on his saint's day. That's the long and the short of it.

The reason you're not getting a better response isn't because people aren't up to the challenge, it's because they can't be arsed with you or your petty gcse level debate. Wind your neck in and move on.

Except if you look back far enough he's not our original patron saint. St Edmund's day - 20th November.

http://whitedragonflagofengland.com/englands-patron-saint.php

[Jeru tha Damaja]

have you worked christmas day and easter?

Worked Christmas Day in 2010, but last year it fell on a Sunday so I wouldn't have been working anyway. Frequently worked through Easter.

[colin]

have you worked christmas day and easter?

An interesting question Abbey. No one, apart from a few people in the finance industries, have a right to take off bank holidays or other public holidays. The reason is that there are so many people who work 365 days a year. Just think care homes; NHS; emergency services; nuclear power stations workers.......

If someone doesn't work on any particular day of the year it is because their employer has told them to take that day off because the employer is closing down the place of employment on that day. It doesn't have anything to do with any particular religious affiliation. I take off Good Friday & Easter Monday not because I'm a Christian, but because my employer closes the place where I work on those two days and tells me to take the day off. The same applies to my Muslim, Hindu, & Jewish work colleagues.

As for Jeru: he omits to say that no one should not feel nationalistic about 23rd of April (apols, double negative). He has simply asked why anyone feels some great allegiance to "St George." It seems like a perfectly sensible question that no-one has appeared to have been able to answer. To my mind if you may as well be a rootin' and a tootin' for Santa Claus for your reason for celebrating Christmas. After all Santa Claus is just a derivative of St Claus. St George/St Claus. See what I'm getting at here?

Cheers y'all.

Colin

[roverandout]

i ask a simple question and jeru turns it into an edition of newsnight, wheres jeremy paxman nowadays?

[Jeru tha Damaja]

Trust me, nobody regrets it more than me.

[jim mk2]

He has simply asked why anyone feels some great allegiance to "St George." It seems like a perfectly sensible question that no-one has appeared to have been able to answer.

The question has been answered. St George is the patron saint of England, my country, and represents all that is good about England in the same way as the patron saints of Scotland, Wales and Ireland represent their countries. St George is a symbol and it does not matter where he comes from or that he is also the patron saint of other countries. Jeru the Judas has still not responded to queries about why he has a big chip on his shoulder about this country to the extent he has emigrated to the growing superpower of Tanzania.

[Rovermatt]

St. Paddy was Welsh for goodness sake. Sure he came to Ireland, chased all the snakes away and gave us Catholicism but he hadn't a drop of Irish blood in him. If a few English want to celebrate oul St. George, then I honestly don't see the problem.