[Archived] "FAO: those not renewing their season tickets"

[Paul]

I spoke with a senior rovers figure after the Norwich match... It was said that Venkys do not have a plan B - everything is centred around EPL survival.

Can't be much of a senior figure if he hasn't worked out what the plan is. It's been debated on here for months. Let me explain:

Slash the player wage bill

Reduce non playing staff and costs

Free up cash to reduced debt by selling key players

Reduce interest charges - see above

Avoid compensation payments by retaining the manager

Ensure new contracts are avoided - eg Salgado

Minimise unnecessary expenditure e.g. no ST brochure

Now I'm not supporting the above, I don't say it's good or right but it is clearly the plan. It also works whether we are relegated or not because it provides for three possibilities:

Relegation and much necessary cost cutting in place

Next season PL football with the supposed deadwood cleared out to allow Kean to rebuild

Or, quite likely in my view, to reduce or eliminate the need for "investment" in Rovers thus minimising the Raos financial exposure

It's been going on for months, accelerated in the New Year and we may not like it but it is the plan which covers every possibility.

[Grez]

Can't be much of a senior figure if he hasn't worked out what the plan is. It's been debated on here for months. Let me explain:

Slash the player wage bill

Reduce non playing staff and costs

Free up cash to reduced debt by selling key players

Reduce interest charges - see above

Avoid compensation payments by retaining the manager

Ensure new contracts are avoided - eg Salgado

Minimise unnecessary expenditure e.g. no ST brochure

Now I'm not supporting the above, I don't say it's good or right but it is clearly the plan. It also works whether we are relegated or not because it provides for three possibilities:

Relegation and much necessary cost cutting in place

Next season PL football with the supposed deadwood cleared out to allow Kean to rebuild

Or, quite likely in my view, to reduce or eliminate the need for "investment" in Rovers thus minimising the Raos financial exposure

It's been going on for months, accelerated in the New Year and we may not like it but it is the plan which covers every possibility.

Rovers had to do the cost cutting when barclays called in the debt. I'll say again that he said they have everything geared to epl survival and premier league tv coverage. I honestly do not think anyone apart from mrs desai knows the future direction - I think she keeps her cards close to her chest.

[gumboots]

Must say I'm beginning to move towards this view in relation to quite a number of opinions on here. I can't agree with RM's following post but there is truth I the one I've quoted.

I'm as against the current regime as the next fan but the fuss about the ST schedule (not sales) or planning for relegation is simply grasping at every stick available to beat the management and owners.

I can't recall exactly, because I've never had previous need to take note, but all that is different this year is the offer came early, Bolton by the way are running the same offer and don't know their fate either. What is missing is the nice brochure (cost cutting) we used to get, the schedule for claim your seat and new or further renewals. Difficult to announce this until we know which league we are in - I am fairly certain this has been the case in the past when relegation reared its head but no one made an issue of it then.

BTW in the past I've criticised the club's ST selling without gaining a round of applause. The same points I've previously criticised exist today.

The plans for either scenario are in place. I know what the plans are and so do the rest of you.

When the Raos arrived the flock turned as one, well bar about a dozen, and praised the cash we appeared to have. Even advised on how to spend it, promote the club, develop the Asia market, sell millions of shirts in India right down to building a multi-storey car park and charging the soft southern idiots £10 a go to park. It was all nonsense on day one, just as it is now but back then the majority believed, or wanted to believe, the Raos had money so everything was hunky dory.

Now everyone turns again as one just in a different direction. Some of the stuff on here is getting daft, really really daft.

No everyone didn't jump into plans for what to do with their money and no everyone didn't jump on the bandwagon deciding what to spend the money they don't have on. At most they were welcomed with a "We'll give them a chance to see what they do" and when it became obvious that they hadn't a clue, most woke up fairly quickly. More than a dozen had doubts - some of us were just prepared to wait a month or two to se if the idiotic statements about players and champions League were translated into idiotic action, which they were. The season ticket thing is a fiasco and not just something we have chosen to beat them with. They have given us the ammunition. Most clubs on issuing their early bird offer tell you exactly what it will save you - regardless of the league - and yes, most other clubs do do that this early, but you make an informed choice, not a guess. doesn't matter what they put them up to in my case, as if i choose to, I could afford one, but to virtually push folks who can't really afford much more into buying now rather than risk waiting to see if they or the manager leave, is another classless act by people with a long list of them already.

[Parsonblue]

I really don't care how many have been sold. Ours are renewed, that's good enough for me. And I don't see why those who are turning their backs on the club should care, either. You can't have it all ways.

With all due respect roversmum, I think you are bang out of order with this post. Although we differ on our view of the owners, I have always been happy to defend your right to your opinions. However, others have exactly the same right to hold a different opinion. After much soul searching I decided to renew my ticket for no other reason than I couldn't walk away after 51 years of supporting the club. As you know, I hate these owners and this manager with a passion. I believe they have destroyed everything that made my club special but I have opted to continue to support the club with season ticket money.

However, I have friends of my generation, friends who, like me, were at Ewood when we hammered Spurs 7-2 and who were also at the likes of Halifax, Rochdale, Oldham and Port Vale etc. in the early 1970s who have not renewed. They are no less a supporter of this club than you or I but have simply come to the conclusion that putting money into the pockets of the owners is not in the best interests of Blackburn Rovers. Once the owners and the puppet in the dugout have left they will be back. They care passionately about this club and continue to do so. It's because they care that they are staying away because they believe that is the best course of action for the future of the club.

Clearly, you and I have taken a different option. However, that doesn't mean to say that we are right and they are wrong. We all care and because we care we have a right to express an opinion.

[47er]

This nonsense gets worse by the day. Why should the club announce their plans before we know what league we will be playing in next season? Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Of course there are plans for either scenario.

They've announced their Early Bird season ticket prices haven't they before knowing what league we'll be in?

By the way, are you a Rovers fan or a Venkys fan? To my mind its impossible to be both.

The plans for either scenario are in place. I know what the plans are and so do the rest of you.

So if I had bought a 16 match ticket for the Darwen End, you'd be able to tell me what happens if we are relegated and will have 23 home games?

Apologies if I've missed it but I haven't seen any clarification there.

[Paul]

Bolton Wanderers began their early bird offer on Fenruary 27th and at the same time published 2012/13 ST prices so I agree with this club the support had a direct comparison on price and benefit. I pick Bolton for three reasons:

• I walked by the Reebok a few days ago and saw the poster advert - only reason I'm aware of it
• The club face relegation
• They are our nearest neighbours and face many similar issues to Rovers

"So far over 4,000 sesaon tickets have been purchased.....................................the take up on season tickets has been really positive since they went on sale..................................we have been monitoring the succes of our ticket pricing strategy over the last three years. During that time we have seen attendances grow"

Direct quotes from the BWFC website, change the club name and where have we read it before? 4,000 STs at a discounted price is that all, pathetic, when the season is little more than halfway over, when we don't know what league we will be in? BTW on February 27th Bolton were 19th with 20 points and, as today, staring relegation in the face. Would someone like to explain the difference here other than the 2012/13 and deadlines are announced, something Rovers have never been good at? Oh and at the last count Bolton were £90m in debt - and hey the money isn't the owners, it's done through a series of companies!

The truth behind this is the whole PL set up is, and always has been, of absolutley no value to fans. It has been managed by a bunch of collective incompetents with no agenda other than money. It has royally screwed a number of clubs and it's happening to us now. Much of this has been obvious for more than a decade though I freely admit I never dreamt it could happen at Ewood, just like Leeds, Portsmouth, Bradford, Charlton, Coventry, Oldham et al - all stuffed for years to come. It will happen again, and who really cared about those clubs - damn good media story in one or two cases.

We've all been fed a diet of crap for years, this time we are well and truely at the table, so please don't tell me it's different elsewhere.

[Paul]

They've announced their Early Bird season ticket prices haven't they before knowing what league we'll be in?

As did Bolton - please could you go on to slaughter their management and owners

By the way, are you a Rovers fan or a Venkys fan? To my mind its impossible to be both.

Clearly correct, I believe we are all Rovers fans on here

So if I had bought a 16 match ticket for the Darwen End, you'd be able to tell me what happens if we are relegated and will have 23 home games?

Apologies if I've missed it but I haven't seen any clarification there.

No idea and as I said earlier the club have made a mess of pricing and face a real difficulty in how to deal with this if we are relegated. The DE ST has always been a bit different though.

[Mercer]

Can't be much of a senior figure if he hasn't worked out what the plan is. It's been debated on here for months. Let me explain:

Slash the player wage bill

Reduce non playing staff and costs

Free up cash to reduced debt by selling key players

Reduce interest charges - see above

Avoid compensation payments by retaining the manager

Ensure new contracts are avoided - eg Salgado

Minimise unnecessary expenditure e.g. no ST brochure

Now I'm not supporting the above, I don't say it's good or right but it is clearly the plan. It also works whether we are relegated or not because it provides for three possibilities:

Relegation and much necessary cost cutting in place

Next season PL football with the supposed deadwood cleared out to allow Kean to rebuild

Or, quite likely in my view, to reduce or eliminate the need for "investment" in Rovers thus minimising the Raos financial exposure

It's been going on for months, accelerated in the New Year and we may not like it but it is the plan which covers every possibility.

Undoubtedly, the spin is working !

FFS, we were pushing for top 8 when the clown took over !

Team building should have been one of evolution rather than a revoltionary destruction.

How some are easily led.

I really don't care how many have been sold. Ours are renewed, that's good enough for me. And I don't see why those who are turning their backs on the club should care, either. You can't have it all ways.

You don't half spout some rubbish.

You have got even worse since you went to Pune.

[Paul]

Undoubtedly, the spin is working !

FFS, we were pushing for top 8 when the clown took over !

Team building should have been one of evolution rather than a revoltionary destruction.

How some are easily led.

Are you really unable to comprehend what I have written or doesn't it fit your view? It's not my plan it's how the owners are thinking - I haven't said I approve or agree

Easily led my arse! I've been against this regime from day one and before, foreign ownership and all the nonsense that goes with it for years. I have to say I feel you are the one who is easily led, proved by your constant outpouring and repetition of the same point over and over and over again.

[Ozz]

Bolton by the way are running the same offer and don't know their fate either.

Bolton have had a two deadlines. 1st April to secure long term DD payments for their STs, then June 9th as their equivalent early bird cut off. Prices then go up, so people can make an informed decision. All sorted in advance, regardless of the league they will be in.Tickets on sale all the time too!

BWFC Season Ticket Prices.

And they have also gone public with the amount of sales made so far, not that this bit bothers me.

4000 Sold in Bolton Lancashire.

[Mattyblue]

Not sure of your point Paul?

Are you saying that sales will hold up?

Because the anecdoatal evidence that I and I imagine you are seeing tells us that sales will be the worst we've seen for two decades.

[Mercer]

Rovers had to do the cost cutting when barclays called in the debt. I'll say again that he said they have everything geared to epl survival and premier league tv coverage. I honestly do not think anyone apart from mrs desai knows the future direction - I think she keeps her cards close to her chest.

Barclays initially were happy with the overdraft facility otherwise they wouldn't have granted it.

It's very simple really, they lost confidence with the crass management of Rovers which we can all see. When you suddenly start racking up losses of £20m after years of prudence and stability, only a fool would not get twitchy.

Been about long enough to know that lenders clearly want to make money, look for good security in case the whole thing goes tits-up (and that is what they DON'T want) but, more importantly, they get their confidence, or otherwise, from the operators - enough said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"So far over 4,000 sesaon tickets have been purchased.....................................the take up on season tickets has been really positive since they went on sale..................................we have been monitoring the succes of our ticket pricing strategy over the last three years. During that time we have seen attendances grow"

Direct quotes from the BWFC website, change the club name and where have we read it before? 4,000 STs at a discounted price is that all, pathetic,

IMO, we are nowhere near 4,000 - nevermind, keep reading and absorbing the spin !

[Paul]

Not sure of your point Paul?

Are you saying that sales will hold up?

Because the anecdoatal evidence that I and I imagine you are seeing tells us that sales will be the worst we've seen for two decades.

No I'm responding to the criticism of the club and the handling of season ticket sales, which is not that different to previous years. I've also highlighted Bolton, in a very similar position to us, have made a not disimilar offer (but with 2012/13 prices announced) to demonstrate other clubs do the same.

This habit of taking every single thing the club does and turning into something with which to beat the Raos is getting silly - that is my point, plus that the issues go far deeper.

[Mattyblue]

It's fairly obvious to me. The ST sale plan was rushed out post wins against Wolves and Sunderland when those in the club thought we were pretty much safe.

Case in point the 16 match DE ticket, when they will now have 23 (22 if the Dingle's get the full end) .

[47er]

As did Bolton - please could you go on to slaughter their management and owners

Clearly correct, I believe we are all Rovers fans on here

No idea and as I said earlier the club have made a mess of pricing and face a real difficulty in how to deal with this if we are relegated. The DE ST has always been a bit different though.

Very poor response. RM asked why should the club announce its plans before they knew what division we'd be in? My reply was that they had sold season tickets without knowing our fate.

Some of us seem confused about our priorities-RM more than most.

No idea eh? You said we all knew their plans.

[Paul]

Barclays initially were happy with the overdraft facility otherwise they wouldn't have granted it.

It's very simple really, they lost confidence with the crass management of Rovers which we can all see. When you suddenly start racking up losses of £20m after years of prudence and stability, only a fool would not get twitchy.

The club was £20m +/- in debt when the owners bought the club, maiking losses and propped up by the Trust. Absolutely right the Raos accelerated this but while we have always been stable we have pretty much been loss making for decades. It's only a couple of years since John Wlliams sold Warnock to balance the books when we had a £5m hole in the budget.

Been about long enough to know that lenders clearly want to make money, look for good security in case the whole thing goes tits-up (and that is what they DON'T want) but, more importantly, they get their confidence, or otherwise, from the operators - enough said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't disagree with that

IMO, we are nowhere near 4,000 - nevermind, keep reading and absorbing the spin !

If you wish people to take your arguements seriously could I ask you to cease selective quoting to make your point. If you read back a little way you will discover my opinions are far from influenced by spin and never have been. I have been objecting to this and the overall concept of foreign ownership of our football clubs for years. I do NOT accept and possibly never will accept the Raos as our owners. I cannot make it any clearer. While you continue to accuse me of believng the spin you present no rational view by failure to comprehend what I am saying. It appeasr your views are so clouded and rigid that this is difficult for you.

[Paul]

Very poor response. RM asked why should the club announce its plans before they knew what division we'd be in? My reply was that they had sold season tickets without knowing our fate.

Some of us seem confused about our priorities-RM more than most.

No idea eh? You said we all knew their plans.

I seem to recall you as one of those who regularly accused me of being negative in my initial views of the Raos? Interesting how views change isn't it

We do all know their plans and what I laid out was not the plans for the DE STs, as you well know, but the plans for the club, which was the point Grez was making. It's worth reading all that people post and not selecting the bit that suits.

[cn174]

No I'm responding to the criticism of the club and the handling of season ticket sales, which is not that different to previous years. I've also highlighted Bolton, in a very similar position to us, have made a not disimilar offer (but with 2012/13 prices announced) to demonstrate other clubs do the same.

But there is a difference. Loads of teams do an early bird system, that is completely fine.

However I bet you can't find an example of a team who has had an early bird system with a deadline but then has NO information whatsoever about what will happen after the deadline. This is because they haven't had a clue either.

At a time when confidence in our club is at its lowest a little bit of thought wouldn't have gone amiss.

[Paul]

But there is a difference. Loads of teams do an early bird system, that is completely fine.

However I bet you can't find an example of a team who has had an early bird system with a deadline but then has NO information whatsoever about what will happen after the deadline. This is because they haven't had a clue either.

At a time when confidence in our club is at its lowest a little bit of thought wouldn't have gone amiss.

A lot of thought wouldn't go amiss either

Just phoned Bolton Wanderers and said I was thinking of getting a season ticket for the first time but would the price apply to both the PL and Championship. A very nice lady said "I don't know as we haven't been told yet but those are the prices for the TIME BEING"

0844 871 2392

I'm merely pointing out the statements being made are not entirely accurate. I fully, completely, totally agree (there you go Mercer, just to be 100% clear) failing to announce the ST prices for post 30th April is short-sighted and creates a problem - the same problem as may exist elsewhere - phone Bolton as I did just before replying with this post

[mhead]

The Plan B for the club is called "Operation Meltdown"

Support BRSIT

[Hughesy]

I spoke with a senior rovers figure after the Norwich match... It was said that Venkys do not have a plan B - everything is centred around EPL survival.

Senior Rovers figure??? That means nothing....they can tell you the small stuff, but they dont have a clue what Venkys are planning or not planning.

Must say I'm beginning to move towards this view in relation to quite a number of opinions on here.

I'm as against the current regime as the next fan but the fuss about the ST schedule (not sales) or planning for relegation is simply grasping at every stick available to beat the management and owners.

I can't recall exactly, because I've never had previous need to take note, but all that is different this year is the offer came early, Bolton by the way are running the same offer and don't know their fate either.

When the Raos arrived the flock turned as one, well bar about a dozen, and praised the cash we appeared to have. but back then the majority believed, or wanted to believe, the Raos had money so everything was hunky dory.

Now everyone turns again as one just in a different direction.

Would someone like to explain the difference here other than the 2012/13 and deadlines are announced, something Rovers have never been good at?

As for the two posts above....the bits iv left there - I really agree with and feel the same Paul. ANYTHING the club does....they cant win. If we announced the new shirt today (even though people always moan we are always late and not in time for holidays etc), and say its on sale from next week.....People will kick off, saying its pathetic when we dont have a sponsor, and its simply a rush to get cash flow up before they do a midnight flit. Its crazy!

Some MOST things they have got horribly wrong, but release ST's early isnt a reason to have a go.....Yes its crap that they havent put the next phase of sales info out there, but again as Paul says - the club have always been very poor at that sort of stuff.

[47er]

I seem to recall you as one of those who regularly accused me of being negative in my initial views of the Raos? Interesting how views change isn't it

We do all know their plans and what I laid out was not the plans for the DE STs, as you well know, but the plans for the club, which was the point Grez was making. It's worth reading all that people post and not selecting the bit that suits.

I'm damned if I know their plans--perhaps you could enlighten me? Will they sell? Will they take out what they can and bankrupt the club? One thing I'm sure they won't do is put any of their money into the club to restore its fortunes so why go out of your way to defend them?

On your first point you have a very long memory! But at least you can't write me off as someone who summarily dismissed the new owners from Day 1. As we've learned more about them I've come to despise them. You?

[EWOODACE1]

Can you 2 just pm each other instead of forcing us to see your petty bickering please. Also to RM I agree with everyone else that your statement was out of order.

[47er]

Can you 2 just pm each other instead of forcing us to see your petty bickering please. Also to RM I agree with everyone else that your statement was out of order.

No-one forces you to read anything. 3 posts is hardly excessive and I feel I'm raising genuine points so get lost.

[den]

A lot of fuss about nothing to my mind.

I didn't renew - but I knew that after the deadline the prices were going up. My choice then isn't it? I either get a ticket or risk the price going up. When you make the decision not to renew, you have obviously considered that you will have to pay more later if you change your mind. I don't see really what's wrong with that.

If you're tight on cash and you think you're likely to buy a ST, then you should have renewed before the deadline.