[Archived] Fans Forum pre-meet

[Mattyblue]

Some of you need to get a serious reality check.

You run supporters groups for a Championship football club, not the TUC or the Syrian peace mission for the UN.

Little Empire builders who can't see the wood for the trees.

'We are not the Judean People's Front...'

[AndyNeil]

I'm sure you could get the number if you wanted it - you travelled on coach organised by the bloke enough times (so I've read/been told).

Or maybe I won't... (1) Don't know when it is held (2) Don't know where it is held (3) Don't know what benefit it provides the fanbase as a whole - this is my personal view and not that of the FF - before you try and use that against it as well. I'm sure I could find out (1) and (2), however I refer you to (3)...

If you'd rather string this out on a messageboard rather than be bothered, for whatever reason, to get a telephone number make a call and find out what was said and why then thats upto you...

[3rdpillar]

Probably get banned for sexism, but there is lots of schoolgirl behaviour going on. It used to be funny, now its boring. Continue to follow my club regardless, as it more about the comunity of supporters than the football on the pitch, or the politics off it (either inside or outside the club). Its all getting a bit sad. ( make that very sad )

[AndyNeil]

Some of you need to get a serious reality check.

You run supporters groups for a Championship football club, not the TUC or the Syrian peace mission for the UN.

Little Empire builders who can't see the wood for the trees.

'We are not the Judean People's Front...'

Pathetic, childish, tedious - maybe you could use all these words, however if Mark Fish is going to try and put the FF down at every opportunity, it wouldn't say much for me as a person if I just sat there and took it... maybe I should just take it, maybe I should just walk away from it all, maybe I should just let them steamroll me out the FF...or maybe I can stand up and defend the FF. It might not be perfect, however neither are the BRFC Action Group. The phrase "don't throw stones at windows when you live in a green house" springs to mind.

[mark1875]

I'm sure you could get the number if you wanted it - you travelled on coach organised by the bloke enough times (so I've read/been told).

Or maybe I won't... (1) Don't know when it is held (2) Don't know where it is held (3) Don't know what benefit it provides the fanbase as a whole - this is my personal view and not that of the FF - before you try and use that against it as well. I'm sure I could find out (1) and (2), however I refer you to (3)...

If you'd rather string this out on a messageboard rather than be bothered, for whatever reason, to get a telephone number make a call and find out what was said and why then thats upto you...

Right i ain't going to argue this out on here. Many moons ago i did, i never booked it directly, i believe i did have the number years ago, i no longer do, i asked the question on here as i thought the response would have been straight forward and as it was at a fans forum meeting, i believe it is a fans forum issue/opinion, as when we have meetings we represent the group and not ourselves. If this isn't the case and people are asking their own issues, then it maybe my fault for thinking the forum was not intended for personal platforms but for a broader range. So maybe it is my misconception, if so i apologise if that's the case.

The collaboration meeting is for groups to discuss the ways forward collectively, i believe they do a good job, if we continue this form outside of them. This was not intended to turn into a public spat, it was a simple question seeking clarity for the point needed, as most would understand the need for it i'm sure. I do believe if something reverse of it appeared in our minutes, you would be the one asking the questions why and my only answer would be to apologise for it as it would be uncalled for. To me the question was not complex and never did i imagine it to become a 2/3 page issue.

Pathetic, childish, tedious - maybe you could use all these words, however if Mark Fish is going to try and put the FF down at every opportunity, it wouldn't say much for me as a person if I just sat there and took it... maybe I should just take it, maybe I should just walk away from it all, maybe I should just let them steamroll me out the FF...or maybe I can stand up and defend the FF. It might not be perfect, however neither are the BRFC Action Group. The phrase "don't throw stones at windows when you live in a green house" springs to mind.

I simply asked the question as to why a representative of the fans forum felt the need in a fans forum meeting, which then makes public minutes, felt the need to suggest our dialogue with the club needed reducing. It was not an attempt to put down the FF, more of an inquiry into why they felt the need to play down our dialogue.

Anyway lets leave it there now, its obviously going around in circles

[Scotty]

The single, biggest thing that stops me from getting involved with BRAG are the continuous point-scoring posts on here from committee members who jump on any perceived slight and seem determined to divide rather than bring the supporters together.

[Hasta]

The single, biggest thing that stops me from getting involved with BRAG are the continuous point-scoring posts on here from committee members who jump on any perceived slight and seem determined to divide rather than bring the supporters together.

If that's your interpretation of this thread then fine Scotty. To be fair I have no allegiance to either group and both exist to do the best for Rovers fans. There have been instances when I think BRAG been wrong in what they have done (either deliberately or through lack of experience). I can't recall many issues I've ever had with the FF. I fully supported their decision to go to Pune to try and achieve something despite the ultimate outcome.

However in this instance i agree with Mark. The point in question made in the minutes seems petty, implying that BRAG is being favoured and that AB's want that attention too. BRAG have rightly questioned it and everyone is then all kicking off over it. Whoever did the minutes should have realised that it wasn't really anything other than provocative and should have been left off.

I always thought the pre-meet was to set the agenda for the FF meeting. I presume therefore that this point was not on the agenda. Had I been a member of the FF, attended and asked "Why is Kean a grade A prick?" would that have been minuted even though it's just my personal opinion and not part of the FF agenda?

[glen9mullan]

The single, biggest thing that stops me from getting involved with BRAG are the continuous point-scoring posts on here from committee members who jump on any perceived slight and seem determined to divide rather than bring the supporters together.

This is not about pointscoring, rather the opposite, Without checking, (and I do know one set of minutes were changed) , the FF have gone into meetings and discussed the Action Group, and other supporter groups in what appears as some sort of point scoring mission. Why they have done this? I aint got a clue,

The collaberation meetings we attend monthly are attended by all the groups, they are promoted as a chance for all groups to report their activity, and discuss various ways of working together to try and bring about getting open and honest answers from the club. Then by use of many platforms relaying that information back to supporters.

This is a fourm board, and when we post on here we post as individuals and not as a collected BRFCAG voice.

Are you suggesting we are wrong to ask why this was the most important thing discussed at the FF latest meeting with the club? So important that it was the first thing discussed, above all other things which has seen crowds dip by 10,000?

Are you suggesting because we are part of a different supporters group, we cannot ask questions which refer to other supporters groups in minutes?

This is an open forum board, which people from all countries, groups, no groups, young and old post. This is a topic thread and a question was asked, the answer which came back was confusing and still is.

Add to that a Fans Forum members knows nothing about the collaberation meetings despite the Fans Forum having representation at ALL of them, It now appears that the discussions in those meetings are not fed back to all the other Fans Forum members, which is incredible if true.

So I cannot see where we are dividing the supporters, as I do beleive the FF have 17 members which are the men/women who attend their meetings.

Our group was born because the supporters had no voice, and continues to grow. Some people do not want to be members, and thats fine, We have never tried to make people become members and never will. Those who are members benefit from what the group does and offers and chose to have an elected voice represent their views.

Hence when the line comes "You dont represent me" We are always quick to point out , We only represent our members. We also have a wide range of views within the group/committee.

Some prefer to boycott,

some prefer to pick their matches,

some have renewed their season tickets.

Some are pay as you go supporters.

Some want Kean out,

Some want Venkys out,

Some want the new board out,

Some are willing to give Venkys another chance,

some are just pleased that the team are sat second in the league and have spent some money.

Some are minority shareholders at the club,

Some are under 16

Some are over 80

Some are members of the 100 club

Some are against protest

Some are for protest

Some are MP's

Some are former or current Mayors

Some are club sponsors/corporates.

In fact the difference of opinion amongst the members is as broad as it could possibly be.

This is one of the main reasons it became a supporters group to ensure all issues were dealt with, swiftly and with answers which each supporter was satisfied with

So in short when another entity is trying to question the club on why they speak to other groups, its quite insulting especially when the official membership base which I was not gonna post, but think I will now is 5028 and growing.

[AndyNeil]

Hasta, the point being discussed was item 3 on the agenda "Role of Fans Forum and other supporter groups". Here is the extract from the minutes:

"AB expressed some concern that the club management were favouring contact with other supporters’ groups rather than the well established Forum. PA responded that the club were very keen to retain the independence of all supporters groups and not prescribe a particular communication route."

On the FF we have differing views and opinions on nearly all subjects discussed with the club. If somebody wants to make a point to the rep. from the club, they make it known they would like to make a point, and in turn make that point - the point isn't vetted before hand or we'd get nowhere, checking and cross checking points. I simply responded by saying that Mark should speak to the guy who raised the point rather than making a whole drama of it on here...

[onlyonejackwalker]

Deary me. What a load of old tosh.

"Why don't you just ring up and talk?"

"I don't have the number and don't know where to look."

"You could find it if you wanted, you caught a coach once - so I have been told."

"That was ages ago, what use is that now. I don't have a crystal ball."

"I aint taking this anymore."

"Maybe it's my fault."

Refer to Matty's post earlier. Seems like events at the club this last 12 months have given many a vehicle for new found fame.

[Parsonblue]

The single, biggest thing that stops me from getting involved with BRAG are the continuous point-scoring posts on here from committee members who jump on any perceived slight and seem determined to divide rather than bring the supporters together.

Completely agree Scotty. I'm afraid the over sensitive egos on display here by members of the Action Group really is quite sad and merely confirms that I have been correct to stay well clear of all of these petty little groups. Simply going to the matches supporting my team seems far more preferable to these ego massaging exercises.

[Doug]

The single, biggest thing that stops me from getting involved with BRAG are the continuous point-scoring posts on here from committee members who jump on any perceived slight and seem determined to divide rather than bring the supporters together.

Agreed. That's how it comes across to me.

[only2garners]

We seem to have come a long way from a few months ago when the main complaint about the Fans Forum was that fans were not kept well enough informed about what we did. Now the complaint appears to be that we are sharing too much.

I wasn't at the pre-meet the week before the main meeting but I know there was some discussion about other fans groups and I think some members of the Forum wanted some assurances from the club that they still regarded the Forum as a useful conduit to discuss issues concerning fans and as a result an item to that effect was put on the minutes. It was relatively high up the agenda because we had been told that Paul Agnew could not stay for the whole meeting and that item was one that we wanted his response on - other items could be dealt with by other staff members.

In the end Paul offered to have an open question and answer session, which we did for about 45 minutes and the minutes under item 2 reflect that and wrapped up the agenda item mentioned above. What I have recorded I feel reflected what was said, albeit obviously more concisely.

As Fernhurst Rover has said more than once, the Fans Forum is not a coherent group with a common set of aims and objectives - it's just fans from all different backgrounds and opinions who try and work together to put across fans' opinions and try to change things, often in small ways.

[Jim Royle]

So yet again, rather than use such meets for pressurising no marks like Agnew we get the much repeated supporter group rivalry.

Agnew yet again gets away with his ineptitude and his "requirement" for second shelf dealer Derek shaw comment but hey - I suppose I must bow to your much more informed opinion on the important topics!

[Stuart]

I think these arguments need to happen. Properly. Some home truths told - on both sides. Clear the air and move forward. Together. For the good of BRFC not for the good of egos and public pride.

Oh and not on an Internet messageboard.

Seriously guys (and gals). Get a room.

Then lock the damn thing and don't come out until you've said everything you have to say to each other.

No-one's going to come out of these cyber-squabbles covered in glory.

[PAFELL]

The single, biggest thing that stops me from getting involved with BRAG are the continuous point-scoring posts on here from committee members who jump on any perceived slight and seem determined to divide rather than bring the supporters together.

I totally agree. There are times I think the action group should stay on there own site. Because I get the impression they like to bash / point score against those who don't go along with their stance. They just appear to be on a huge ego trip - but have not acheved anything.

[T.J.Newton]

Cant the members of all the groups and forums have their petty squabbles in private(using DM's,Facebook,Twitter ect...), you're all just showing yourselves up and in turn(considering you all claim to represent the fans) showing us up, before the eyes of the Ewood Employees(Kean, Agnew, ect...) that will be grinning from ear to ear and patting themselves on the hearing about(or reading) this nonsense.

[PAFELL]

Turf-Wars? questioning why the point was even brought up, we could quite well go into the meeting with the club this week and do the same thing, but we won't because it is not about turf wars, its about what is the best for our supporters and taking about what needs talking about. If ever, a member of our committee went into a meeting and starting preaching "talk to us, why talk to other groups, we should be favoured" i would be absolutely ashamed. This is not about him or us having more right to be in that room, this is about Blackburn Rovers football club and its supporters and this fact seems lost on some people.

I simply asked what the point it being in there was and what good does it do, the explanation that is nothing to do with the fans forum is laughable, considering it came from a member and they have meetings to set agendas to determine whats going to be discussed. I am still unsure what the point in it was tbh, however it will be brought up in the relevant meeting on Friday as stated.

I can just imagine the reaction had we released minutes asking the club to concentrate on us more than other groups, suppose nobody would pass comment on that eh

From what I can see you and Glen have often bashed the FF at the slightest possible chance.

We seem to have come a long way from a few months ago when the main complaint about the Fans Forum was that fans were not kept well enough informed about what we did. Now the complaint appears to be that we are sharing too much.

I wasn't at the pre-meet the week before the main meeting but I know there was some discussion about other fans groups and I think some members of the Forum wanted some assurances from the club that they still regarded the Forum as a useful conduit to discuss issues concerning fans and as a result an item to that effect was put on the minutes. It was relatively high up the agenda because we had been told that Paul Agnew could not stay for the whole meeting and that item was one that we wanted his response on - other items could be dealt with by other staff members.

In the end Paul offered to have an open question and answer session, which we did for about 45 minutes and the minutes under item 2 reflect that and wrapped up the agenda item mentioned above. What I have recorded I feel reflected what was said, albeit obviously more concisely.

As Fernhurst Rover has said more than once, the Fans Forum is not a coherent group with a common set of aims and objectives - it's just fans from all different backgrounds and opinions who try and work together to put across fans' opinions and try to change things, often in small ways.

I think this answers the whole question raised by BRAG / ACTION GROUP. If they are not prepared to accept that. Then they are just looking for an argument for the sake of it.

[Ste B]

I think these arguments need to happen. Properly. Some home truths told - on both sides. Clear the air and move forward. Together. For the good of BRFC not for the good of egos and public pride.

Oh and not on an Internet messageboard.

Seriously guys (and gals). Get a room.

Then lock the damn thing and don't come out until you've said everything you have to say to each other.

No-one's going to come out of these cyber-squabbles covered in glory.

Sounds like a plan.

[Hasta]

I wasn't at the pre-meet the week before the main meeting but I know there was some discussion about other fans groups and I think some members of the Forum wanted some assurances from the club that they still regarded the Forum as a useful conduit to discuss issues concerning fans and as a result an item to that effect was put on the minutes. It was relatively high up the agenda because we had been told that Paul Agnew could not stay for the whole meeting and that item was one that we wanted his response on - other items could be dealt with by other staff members.

There lies the problem. That is a perfectly reasonable post. However to include it in the minutes as:-

"AB expressed some concern that the club management were favouring contact with other supporters’ groups rather than the well established Forum"

doesn't really summarise it that way and comes across as worried/jealous of 'other groups'. I generally only skim through certain threads and posts on here but the minute I read that earlier today, knowing the potential issues raised on this board previously with the parties involves, I knew it was potentially antagonistic. It could easily have been reworded slightly better but still concise.

[Baz]

I find it a bit sad that in an open Q&A session, someone really thought the best question was about other fans groups.

There's a thousand more important issues to be discussed.

[pk1875]

I find it a bit sad that in an open Q&A session, someone really thought the best question was about other fans groups.

There's a thousand more important issues to be discussed.

Sometimes if people are insecure about their ineptness, they will attempt mask this by bringing someone else to the forefront of a situation, it is a well known, and well documented coping mechanism for the weaker minded.

[PAFELL]

Sometimes if people are insecure about their ineptness, they will attempt mask this by bringing someone else to the forefront of a situation, it is a well known, and well documented coping mechanism for the weaker minded.

It just looks like somebody asked a question or they sort assurrance. Aftterall with so many groups now in exsistance, it appears to be a reasonable question, the person wanted assurance the club would not give one group - whoever that group was - prefereance over another. Person got the answer, and did not push it any further. That should have been the end of it.

But somebody else from the action group, formally known as brag, reading it in the minutes decided it was a good opportunity to create an argument about it. For what purpose, other than point scoring, only they know.

[yoda]

omg what a tedious thread this is

[mark1875]

But somebody else from the action group, formally known as brag, reading it in the minutes decided it was a good opportunity to create an argument about it. For what purpose, other than point scoring, only they know.

1) The Action Group was not formally known as Brag, not sure where you invented this mis-information from or how many times it needs explaining to you

2) I never created an argument i asked for clarity on why it was asked in the first place, as it was clearly made in reference to the group, no argument, just clarity.

Thought we'd established this and left it there already