[Archived] What really happened at half time?

[StaffsRover]

I don't want to be putting 2 and 2 together and making 5 (clearly the penchant of a lot of those that use this forum) but, if I was looking at all the evidence as it stands:

1) Orr's exppletive clearly seen on TV

2) Orr's undying defence of Coco in the presser

3) 'Something spat-like' taking place outside the Rovers dressing room

4) Orr having a 'fitness test' which, as it happens kept him away from the dressing room

5) Givet being replaced

I would say the antagonism was between Givet and Orr......probably the 'real' defender telling the other (you decide) that they were having a shocker!!

Twopenneth over. Back to work!

[Bennisfromheaven]

Has anyone thought that this could have been Keans attempt to unsettle QPR players??

He see's himself as the new Alex Ferguson & thinks he can play mind games in the same way!

The whole thing smacked of desperation & Kean is just doing anything he can to survive!!

[Jordan]

What have QPR got to do with it? Surely we should have been concentrating on last night

[Bennisfromheaven]

That is my point, Kean is that poor a manager he thought it was worth trying to unsettle the QPR players rather than focus on a way of tactically taking control of the game!!

The fact that he was the only person from the dressing room to come out screaming is a bit strange, even if someone was having heart trouble a real manager would have stayed with his player & sent someone else out!!

[Hanks]

That is my point, Kean is that poor a manager he thought it was worth trying to unsettle the QPR players rather than focus on a way of tactically taking control of the game!!

The fact that he was the only person from the dressing room to come out screaming is a bit strange, even if someone was having heart trouble a real manager would have stayed with his player & sent someone else out!!

Do you not mean the Wigan Players?

[he6rt6gr6m]

Good to see The Rovers Files conspiracy theories are back.

From what I've read (and I was at the game but saw nothing as I was at the kiosk), Givet had a light-headed moment with palpitations, and paramedics were called in on the off-chance that it was serious. With Muamba, Morosini, it shouldn't be critiqued that paramedics being on stand-by is one big cover-up for something else.

If it turned out to be just an episode of light-headedness and palpitations (I get them almost every time I stand up, and have collapsed from it), which subsided after a few seconds (sometimes, you don't collapse and can resume your normal duties - SHOCKER!) there's no reason he can't jog back to the bench.

And regarding Kean's red-eye, you'll also notice that during interviews, he does a lot of scratching and touching of his face. That, according to some psychologists, means he's lying his tits off, but regardless, it's not entirely impossible that he scratches under that eye subconsciously, like I crack my thumbs subconsciously.

There's no evidence to support any sort of scuffle or assault in the dressing room, and this is one of the many things this season that have completely tainted being a Blackburn Rovers fan this season. Awful owners and awful management is obvious, but when your fellow fans are resorting to starting rumours about player spats in the dressing room of a massively important game, it's just pathetic.

Stick to the facts and stop making assumptions.

[Mattyblue]

Has it buggery 'tainted' us.

When you have a club that only communicates with it's fans through the bulls*** of Steve Kean, it is no surprise rumours start, that's the way it is in the internet era.

To me, Kean just looks like a bloke who eats badly and drinks likes a fish.

[Bennisfromheaven]

Do you not mean the Wigan Players?

Sorry, I have had a long night up with a new born baby!! ......Still think Id be able to outsmart Steve Kean though!!

[Miker]

When you have a club that only communicates with it's fans through the bulls*** of Steve Kean, it is no surprise rumours start, that's the way it is in the internet era.

Not really about communication, but trust. I'm not sure how you stop rumours once they're out there unless everyone just doesn't believe them.

[he6rt6gr6m]

Has it buggery 'tainted' us.

So many people have turned to conspiracy theories, scaremongering and rumours. These are all negative qualities.

To me, Kean just looks like a bloke who eats badly and drinks likes a fish.

Agree with that. Enjoying that comfy wage he's on. Keep trying to get a glimpse of his watch. Sure it's a Rolex...

[Mercer]

I would not be surprised if there is a PFA statement issued today following the alleged half time incident.

[deftangel]

For their part, Sky were pretty confident in saying there was a scare with Givet. I struggle to believe they wouldn't pick up on a story about a more nefarious incident even if it wasn't unsubstantiated so I'll be surprised if there is anything in it. There's certainly no evidence to automatically jump to that conclusion!

Much as I'd love one of the players to lamp him, the last thing we actually need right now is another battering in the media with every pundit lining up to say how out of order someone might have been to the manager. They need to actually be asking Venky's the right questions instead.

[he6rt6gr6m]

For their part, Sky were pretty confident in saying there was a scare with Givet. I struggle to believe they wouldn't pick up on a story about a more nefarious incident even if it wasn't unsubstantiated so I'll be surprised if there is anything in it. There's certainly no evidence to automatically jump to that conclusion!

Much as I'd love one of the players to lamp him, the last thing we actually need right now is another battering in the media with every pundit lining up to say how out of order someone might have been to the manager. They need to actually be asking Venky's the right questions instead.

Completely agree. Sadly, the only chance they'll get is at Chelsea, where the most pointless game of the season takes place.

[onlyonejackwalker]

May I point out I am not "In The Know" and have never posted any rumours on here at anytime.

However, I can confidently shed some light on events at half-time. I sit in Block No 1, Lower Tier Blackburn End. I sit next to two lads who are Rovers representatives on the Sky Fans Forum. They are always feeding me little bits of news, but last night was very interesting.

To avoid the risk of someone at the club getting in trouble at work, I would rather not say who gave them this information, but I can confirm that it was not a player. One of the people I sit with received a text literally two minutes after the half-time whistle blew.

It was not Orr and Givet that were arguing in the dressing room.

It was not a hamstring strain.

It was nothing to with with heart palpitations.

I have it on very good authority that Givet and Kean had another almight bust up at half-time about the way we were playing. Givet subsequently refused to play after telling Kean he did not have a clue what he was doing and that his tactics were inviting pressure. The two ended with Givet pinning Kean to the wall by his neck with his forearm.

This explains perfectly why Sky felt sure they had a breaking story, the confusion in the tunnel, Sky panning to the security guard (who prevents people getting down the tunnel) talking furiously down his mike, Givet strolling out without limping and taking his seat and no other players responding to him at that time. Orr mouthing at the physio may have been in relation to the incident but I am not sure.

The same source has also stated that at half-time away at Bolton, Robbo and Roberts had a blazing row with Kean and told him he did not know he was doing. They told him they would run the team for him. Roberts immediately went to Reading and Robbo was suddenly also in bad books.

Believe what you will.

[arbitro]

May I point out I am not "In The Know" and have never posted any rumours on here at anytime.

However, I can confidently shed some light on events at half-time. I sit in Block No 1, Lower Tier Blackburn End. I sit next to two lads who are Rovers representatives on the Sky Fans Forum. They are always feeding me little bits of news, but last night was very interesting.

To avoid the risk of someone at the club getting in trouble at work, I would rather not say who gave them this information, but I can confirm that it was not a player. One of the people I sit with received a text literally two minutes after the half-time whistle blew.

It was not Orr and Givet that were arguing in the dressing room.

It was not a hamstring strain.

It was nothing to with with heart palpitations.

I have it on very good authority that Givet and Kean had another almight bust up at half-time about the way we were playing. Givet subsequently refused to play after telling Kean he did not have a clue what he was doing and that his tactics were inviting pressure. The two ended with Givet pinning Kean to the wall by his neck with his forearm.

This explains perfectly why Sky felt sure they had a breaking story, the confusion in the tunnel, Sky panning to the security guard (who prevents people getting down the tunnel) talking furiously down his mike, Givet strolling out without limping and taking his seat and no other players responding to him at that time. Orr mouthing at the physio may have been in relation to the incident but I am not sure.

The same source has also stated that at half-time away at Bolton, Robbo and Roberts had a blazing row with Kean and told him he did not know he was doing. They told him they would run the team for him. Roberts immediately went to Reading and Robbo was suddenly also in bad books.

Believe what you will.

Absolutely 100% believable. So much of that makes perfect sense.

[RoyRover]

Good man yourself Givet if that's true. Something happened last night beyond Givet 'pulling' a hamstring. I have no doubt about that. When I saw the pictures on Sky I thought something had gone down. Kean's face was like thunder. There were raised voices, people rushing about. When Givet strolled out after half time it was obvious he had not pulled his hamstring. I've pulled my hamstring on several occasions and you don't just walk around after it. I noticed it at the time how the other players responded to him when he got back to the bench. Goodwillie looked at him very strangely. I'm sure you've all been in work when you've seen a row erupt between two people and you're not involved. When you next see those people you look at them with a sense of morbid fascination. Formica gave him a quick glance. None of them were shaking his hand or checking him, after his 'injury' forced him to retire from a must win game. That's my opinion anyway.

[koi]

I can well believe that, pity though Givet didn't do a 'Todd on Brown' (allegedly) and out him in hospital.

[Kelbo]

And with a hamstring, he would have been on ice to aid recovery for the second half!!

[donnermeat]

I can well believe that, pity though Givet didn't do a 'Todd on Brown' (allegedly) and out him in hospital.

Yes I think Toddy would have gone one step further than pinning him up against the wall.

[booth]

Good to see The Rovers Files conspiracy theories are back.

From what I've read (and I was at the game but saw nothing as I was at the kiosk), Givet had a light-headed moment with palpitations, and paramedics were called in on the off-chance that it was serious. With Muamba, Morosini, it shouldn't be critiqued that paramedics being on stand-by is one big cover-up for something else.

If it turned out to be just an episode of light-headedness and palpitations (I get them almost every time I stand up, and have collapsed from it), which subsided after a few seconds (sometimes, you don't collapse and can resume your normal duties - SHOCKER!) there's no reason he can't jog back to the bench.

And regarding Kean's red-eye, you'll also notice that during interviews, he does a lot of scratching and touching of his face. That, according to some psychologists, means he's lying his tits off, but regardless, it's not entirely impossible that he scratches under that eye subconsciously, like I crack my thumbs subconsciously.

There's no evidence to support any sort of scuffle or assault in the dressing room, and this is one of the many things this season that have completely tainted being a Blackburn Rovers fan this season. Awful owners and awful management is obvious, but when your fellow fans are resorting to starting rumours about player spats in the dressing room of a massively important game, it's just pathetic.

Stick to the facts and stop making assumptions.

So you are telling people to stop making assumptions and you start by stating that your whole post is based on assumption and guesswork.

Personally I'm convinced that Kean got a punch in the face by a senior player. Not yesterday but in training weeks ago. An ex-player of some repute said so, a PL title winner, and I have no reason to disbelieve him. It's second hand information but for me from an excellent source.

Good man yourself Givet if that's true. Something happened last night beyond Givet 'pulling' a hamstring. I have no doubt about that. When I saw the pictures on Sky I thought something had gone down. Kean's face was like thunder. There were raised voices, people rushing about. When Givet strolled out after half time it was obvious he had not pulled his hamstring. I've pulled my hamstring on several occasions and you don't just walk around after it. I noticed it at the time how the other players responded to him when he got back to the bench. Goodwillie looked at him very strangely. I'm sure you've all been in work when you've seen a row erupt between two people and you're not involved. When you next see those people you look at them with a sense of morbid fascination. Formica gave him a quick glance. None of them were shaking his hand or checking him, after his 'injury' forced him to retire from a must win game. That's my opinion anyway.

Did no one else notice that loads of security went running down the tunnel. I, and the people around me, assumed that a fan had got into the changing rooms to confront Kean.

[roverandout]

i beleive the rumour but wouldnt givet have just walked out of the stadium or told by prick to leave the ground? surely its a little strange to see him take his seat for the second half after what allegedly took place?

[onlyonejackwalker]

i beleive the rumour but wouldnt givet have just walked out of the stadium or told by prick to leave the ground? surely its a little strange to see him take his seat for the second half after what allegedly took place?

I also wondered about that, hence saying believe what you will.

I was also told that Kean completed his interview last night immediately after the game, subsequently recorded by Sky and then released maybe 30 minutes later. Kean apparently then left the ground immediately upon police advice.

[arbitro]

i beleive the rumour but wouldnt givet have just walked out of the stadium or told by prick to leave the ground? surely its a little strange to see him take his seat for the second half after what allegedly took place?

I think he was proving a point - much like he did when he warmed up at Swansea before the match and at half time.

[he6rt6gr6m]

So you are telling people to stop making assumptions and you start by stating that your whole post is based on assumption and guesswork.

One person watching Sky Sports and another watching a foreign stream both said that Givet's heart problems had been mentioned. A hamstring strain was only mentioned after the substitution was made.

There is no guesswork here. This is all we have to go on - Sky Sports, who had reporters down there, and what we see on the cameras.

It's going to take for a senior player to lift the lid on all of this, and I'm sure at least one of the summer exodus will do just that. Right now though, I want to think that the players would have the intelligence to just ignore the manager's requests, and play what THEY know best.

People WANT to believe Kean finally got what he deserved, but until that is confirmed 110% by someone reliable, I'm taking a heart scare as the truth.

In fairness, every story I've seen on here makes sense and fits, but only one is right.

[koi]

Yes I think Toddy would have gone one step further than pinning him up against the wall.

He (allegedly) went much further than that! I say 'allegedly' for the benefit of the forum mind you..