[Archived] Big Sam calls his Lawyers

[den]

'Sam was sacked because he was pocketing agent fees from transfers' is a specific accusation, calling someone a crook isn't.

Saying that someone was sacked because they were a crook is specific. It means that they were sacked for illegal activities. That's what Kean is alleging - and Sam and his lawyers will think that very defamatory [so would I].

The fact that it's been said in front of a few people in a bar wont make Sam's claims any less valid either IMO. If his comments had got no further than that small party then any damages awarded would be limited. Those comments though went world wide and I suspect the potential damage to Sam's reputation and future job prospects because of that, are far more reaching.

[bradeagle]

Sky have been to busy sucking up to Fergie, Giggs and Man Utd all day, I thought there would have been some more coverage though, it's not everyday something like this happens.

I think what i am trying to say is i was hoping the lynch mob would have been after mr dignity - but still not a comment on golden boy's 'dignity'

[Baz]

I hope Sam takes Kean for millions.

It's pure defamation, said on behalf of Kean and the people at Rovers who chose to sack Allardyce.

I also would like to see a statement from the LMA, they were quick off the blocks to defend Kean, let's see how quickly they defend Allardyce.

[RoyRover]

What ramifications does this have on the club? From the telegraph article it seems like he is starting a case against both kean and the club, presumably for wrongful dismissal?

I'm no legal expert, but could Sam's claim be that he was fired for 'under performing', while Kean, a man who has gotten the team relegated is still in a job? It doesn't seem possible, as Venky's, like it or not, can do what they want when it comes to the manager.

Sky have been to busy sucking up to Fergie, Giggs and Man Utd all day, I thought there would have been some more coverage though, it's not everyday something like this happens.

Jerome Anderson has been onto them and has warned them in no uncertain terms are they to do more than the bare minimum on this story.

[Mike E]

Jerome Anderson has been onto them and has warned them in no uncertain terms are they to do more than the bare minimum on this story.

Meaning that Anderson is somehow on our side? Or do you mean '*NO more than the bare minimum'?

[Andy]

Rumour is that Big Sam will take Kean for as much of the undeserved salary he's taken from Rovers in the last two years and hand the majority of it back to fans.

* Rumour may not contain truth

[ABBEY]

I cant understand how Tash Mc has let this go un detected.

[rhodie]

It seems to be a case of the media don`t want to say too much as its an ongoing.I think they all are treading very lightly with all the legal stuff flying about.If there is any time that we are going to get inside info on the wheeling and dealing that has been going on at the club I think it`ll be when this gets to court.Just a pity this video didn`t come out sooner.Maybe we could have got rid of B.S. man earlier.

[True Blue & White]

Saying that someone was sacked because they were a crook is specific. It means that they were sacked for illegal activities. That's what Kean is alleging - and Sam and his lawyers will think that very defamatory [so would I].

The fact that it's been said in front of a few people in a bar wont make Sam's claims any less valid either IMO. If his comments had got no further than that small party then any damages awarded would be limited. Those comments though went world wide and I suspect the potential damage to Sam's reputation and future job prospects because of that, are far more reaching.

OK I'll continue to play devil's advocate....

As I have already said according to the OED the first definition of crook is 'liar', it then says 'or illegal'. Hence the word crook can be used to describe someone who lies but isn't necessarily a criminal.

Secondly, unlike Libel, slander is much harder to win. Drunken chats down the pub (like this) are generally thrown out of court (don't forget that a judge has to balance the right to sue with the right to free speech), add to the fact he was clearly drunk at the time and you also have a ready made 'not of sound mind' excuse.

Also, Sam would have to prove the comments have had an effect on his career, not a 'potential threat' but he has to actually show those words had a tangible negative effect. Seeing as he got employed by WHAM pretty quickly after leaving us shows that not to be the case.

Finally whilst it's not illegal to film someone without their knowledge in a public place (unless they are a policeman) it may be in China, so who knows the Chinese authorities might want a word with them.

[Brfcrule1]

T B & W wake up and smell the coffee when he got the WHU job none of this was in the public domain. Now say horror of horrors WHU lose the play off final and as a result Big Sam gets the sack, when he goes to apply for another job this crap will re-surface. The point being any FUTURE employment this will re-surface. Also there is the case Keanochio has made false accusations it is one thing making false accusations about someone but if you can't conclusively prove those accusations you can be in very real trouble and any future employer will find out about this could really sully Sam's name and people may decide not to offer Sam employment because of it. Also there is the thing that coco has form for this lying in court about his drink driving offence if this goes to court coco does not have a case to answer as his previous attempts for lying in court he could go down for a very long time to sum up however way you look at it you have on the one side a manager who is a convicted criminal drink driver and one who makes false accusations without any evidence of these accusations on the other hand you have a manager of great integrity who has never lied and who has done his job to the best of his abilities you don't have to Einstein to know who will be dumped from a big height. The point about filming without coco's permission that doesn't matter the fact the video has been distributed round the world proves beyond any doubt Keanochio did make those statements and will be hanged for it I also believe with this situation Mrs D has to act now sitting at home doing nothing is not an option if she does not sack him Big Sam & his lawyers could take them and there other businesses to court and it will end up costing her other companies millions and with the impending Lavassa court case they could be made destitute so doing nothing is not an option.

[Amo]

I keep reading this as 'Big Sam calls his banners'

Too much ASOIAF.

[Rovermatt]

I keep reading this as 'Big Sam calls his banners'

Too much ASOIAF.

+100

Kean is definitely a Frey. Big Sam is more of a Baratheon I feel.

[USABlue]

It seems to be a case of the media don`t want to say too much as its an ongoing.I think they all are treading very lightly with all the legal stuff flying about.If there is any time that we are going to get inside info on the wheeling and dealing that has been going on at the club I think it`ll be when this gets to court.Just a pity this video didn`t come out sooner.Maybe we could have got rid of B.S. man earlier.

HAsn't slowed em down any with Terry has it.

[Steve Moss]

You have to ask, is Kean not merely an employee but more a partner to Venkys if he doesnt get booted out now.

Kean is the manager of Blackburn Rovers FC, duly appointed by Venkys. According to some, he's also the de facto CEO of the club answerable only to Mrs. D. He is their agent and authorized to speak on footballing matters.

So when he made derogatory statements as to Sam's honesty and football acumen, he was presumably speaking on behalf of his employers. Especially as Ms. D has previously opined that Sam got 9 out of 10 of his player purchases wrong.

Secondly, unlike Libel, slander is much harder to win. Drunken chats down the pub (like this) are generally thrown out of court (don't forget that a judge has to balance the right to sue with the right to free speech), add to the fact he was clearly drunk at the time and you also have a ready made 'not of sound mind' excuse.

For the record, I always post in an intoxicated state.

I keep reading this as 'Big Sam calls his banners'

Too much ASOIAF.

No such thing.

Kean is definitely a Frey. Big Sam is more of a Baratheon I feel.

Sam is too smart to be a Baratheon. He's more of a Manderly.

100% agree that Kean is a Frey.

[Jimmy Jupiter]

Finally whilst it's not illegal to film someone without their knowledge in a public place (unless they are a policeman)

Realising it contributes nothing to the Sam vs Kean conversation I should point out it's perfectly legal to film a police officer in a public place, unless it directly interferes with his/her work. Being a copper myself it winds me up watcing all these youtube videos of police getting irate and declaring it's an offence when they are being filmed - IT'S NOT!

Anyway - back to the topic, hope Sam mops the floor with Kean.

[thenodrog]

I expect a forced retraction and an apology by Kean and a settlement out of court. SA will have to take guidance from the LMA and the Porn Bros who might not want Sam's past demeanours (should there be any of course) dragging up in public thereby putting them on even more of a spot than these allegations have put them on now.

It'll blow over I expect aided by the fact that we are no longer a Prem club. It's already proving sh1t down here.

[heysham rover]

Sky won't be paying it much attention as it doesn't really interest their target Market. The vast majority of their subscribers will be armchair fans of the so called 'big clubs' who lap up the crap about Fergie saying something about someone at any time, the yellow ticker bar with YaYa's agent saying he might leave, possibly, maybe, one day, in the future sometime but his heart is at City. It's all sensationalist ######. They probably broadcast 2 newsworthy stories per day, at a push.

[M-K]

Just a pity this video didn`t come out sooner.Maybe we could have got rid of B.S. man earlier.

The fact that someone has sat on this all season before finally posting it shows that all the nonsense about Rovers fans being more concerned with hating Kean that supporting the team is, well, nonsense.

I doubt anything will come of it, though. Wouldn't be surprised if Kean could produce evidence, and Sam does have 'previous' when it comes to allegations of crookedness.

[AndyC]

The fact that someone has sat on this all season before finally posting it shows that all the nonsense about Rovers fans being more concerned with hating Kean that supporting the team is, well, nonsense.

I doubt anything will come of it, though. Wouldn't be surprised if Kean could produce evidence, and Sam does have 'previous' when it comes to allegations of crookedness.

all we actually need, is for someone like sam to question whether everything was above board in the miles anderson transfer in the media. It probably was squeaky clean(they would really have to be ridiculously stupid to try it on that one) but as has been proven with sam - there's no smoke without fire and the general football fan doesnt know about kean signing jeromes boy

[longsiders1882]

OK I'll continue to play devil's advocate....

As I have already said according to the OED the first definition of crook is 'liar', it then says 'or illegal'. Hence the word crook can be used to describe someone who lies but isn't necessarily a criminal.

Secondly, unlike Libel, slander is much harder to win. Drunken chats down the pub (like this) are generally thrown out of court (don't forget that a judge has to balance the right to sue with the right to free speech), add to the fact he was clearly drunk at the time and you also have a ready made 'not of sound mind' excuse.

Also, Sam would have to prove the comments have had an effect on his career, not a 'potential threat' but he has to actually show those words had a tangible negative effect. Seeing as he got employed by WHAM pretty quickly after leaving us shows that not to be the case.

Finally whilst it's not illegal to film someone without their knowledge in a public place (unless they are a policeman) it may be in China, so who knows the Chinese authorities might want a word with them.

The law on defamation does not make it an absolute requirement for financial loss - a good 'idiots guide' is here:

My link

And Slander is no harder to win, just generally harder to prove as, by definition, there is often no written or hard evidence.

And to be clear, Sam didn't film anybody, nor publish that film. Whether there are any laws broken by that or not wouldn't make a difference to the right to bring a case.

IF this does go to court I don't imagine the damages being massive (though the legal fees could be)

[Mike E]

The law on defamation does not make it an absolute requirement for financial loss - a good 'idiots guide' is here:

My link

And Slander is no harder to win, just generally harder to prove as, by definition, there is often no written or hard evidence.

And to be clear, Sam didn't film anybody, nor publish that film. Whether there are any laws broken by that or not wouldn't make a difference to the right to bring a case.

IF this does go to court I don't imagine the damages being massive (though the legal fees could be)

Thanks for the link, finally a bit of law I understand properly!

[JAL]

If big Sam was to settle out of court and some apologies issued through the media to him then i'd have to take the view that he Allardyce is guilty of being a crook and i'm sure millions of other decent Brits would too.

[Mercer]

I think Sam will go for the jugular.

Had an informal chat with a legal eagle over drinks tonight and based upon known allegations, and making one or two assumptions, she said that she would not like to be standing in Kean's shoes in particular, or those of BRFC.

[JAL]

I think Sam will go for the jugular.

Had an informal chat with a legal eagle over drinks tonight and based upon known allegations, and making one or two assumptions, she said that she would not like to be standing in Kean's shoes in particular, or those of BRFC.

I'd imagine now that there will be massive pressure applied or put on Big Sam.

Which is something none of us can underestimate.

[47er]

I'd imagine now that there will be massive pressure applied or put on Big Sam.

Which is something none of us can underestimate.

I've read that Sam is determined that this will go to court. He clearly is very angry and wants to make as big an issue of it as he can. Also he will be able to put his side of it without fear of subsequent legal action.

That should be fun! He is suing both Kean and the club by the way. Sam's advice is that the club has breached the terms of the settlement contract where both sides agreed to confidentiality. So-Kean for slander, the club for breach of contract.