[Archived] England Squad for the Euros

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Rovermatt - I was saying that these were all round better players in terms of ability and well performance....not considering influence. I guess like all things it's a matter of perception tho hence the disagreement.

magicalmortensleftpeg - By European strikers I presumed u meant strikers that played in Europe...if not Van Persie, Torres, David Villa and Benzema are better than Rooney. Rooney is better than Gomez but Benzema is an amazing player. You make a good point about Torres but it is clearly a confidence thing and he has shown plenty of signs over the past few months that he is getting near to his old level again. Players don't just lose that ability without bad injuries eg Michael Owen and Brazilian Ronaldo....Ronaldinho I think just parties all the time.

My original and overall point was about him not being in like the top 5 strikers in the world.....the argument about getting into other teams only arose as I didn't agree he would simply walk into any team......You make a good point about u having only played in 2 tournaments since 2004 but my main point was that he had underperformed in these tournaments...he wouldn't have had to score in those games.

I don't question his ability just I don't think he performs to a world-class level often enough to call him as such.

Ashley Cole is quality, not just the best left back but also best full back in the world and Joe Hart is a really good keeper but like Reina I think he is sometimes too prone to making mistakes....still England's No. 1 tho.....but in the premiership I rate Given, probably still Friedel, and then maybe even Michel Vorm and Tim Krul over him. Maybe not Krul.

I'm staggered that not everyone rates Lampard really highly......why?

With England players like Lampard is depends on whether u are basing it on his performances for England, Chelsea or both. With England fair enough he won't be as highly rated, same as Gerrard, but I think certain England players don't play as well for the national side as they care more about their clubs than England, in my opinion.

[joey_big_nose]

Who would you say is better under that criteria, let's say since 1990? Talking about all round what they bring to a team. I can only think of Gascoigne off the top of my head.

Agree with this. People are crackers if they say Rooney is "overrated". He is not a traditional striker, but he still scores a decent amount of goals and can change a game. He is no David Villa, but he is still effective for England. Only Shearer has been a better international forward since the 90s (although also Owen had his moments).

[LDRover]

Never really done anything in a England shirt...and the b###### always scores against Rovers.

[joey_big_nose]

Rooney has scored against top teams domestically and he is one of the best strikers in Europe. I dont rate him higher than Van Persie, but bar him, I can't think of any other striker in Europe who you'd replace Rooney with.

OOoh, that is a bit contentious! You are missing Villa there... best international striker in the world bar none imo. And utterly prolific internationally. Also on the European stage there are a number of performers arugably more effective than than Rooney - Podolski, Klose, Benzema,Huntelaar....

[roverandout]

salgado, give it up, your talking pish, rooney is no messi but hes certainly in the top 10 strikers in the world, hes as good as if not better than any of those you mentioned, when van persie scored goals on a regular basis as in season in season out then we can talk, please stop digging yourself a hole

as for villa, he has for more to his game than david villa, who is a top international striker but rooney has a few more years on villa yet

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

OOoh, that is a bit contentious! You are missing Villa there... best international striker in the world bar none imo. And utterly prolific internationally. Also on the European stage there are a number of performers arugably more effective than than Rooney - Podolski, Klose, Benzema,Huntelaar....

I wouldn't take any of those bar Villa over Rooney. They are all very good players and Rooney is at least on the same level. Internationally it is a bit tricky because players like Podolski are prolific for their country but cannot reproduce that form domestically.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

roverandout - "salgado, give it up, your talking pish" hahaha coming from someone in the top 5 ridiculous posters on this board.

Don't know why I should bother as from all your previous posts I doubt your older than 14 but anyway....... I said he wasn't in the top 5/6 strikers in the world so would class him in the top 10......if you hadn't noticed Van Persie has injury problems hence the reason for him not consistently scoring loads of goals each year....this season is the first one in a while I remember him staying mostly injury free and he is top goal scorer - that is no coincidence.....and the other posters were saying things like apart from Van Persie who is better than Rooney so of all the players to choose he would be the most ridiculous.

You mention Van Persie's lack of consistent goal scoring and yet only twice Rooney has scored more than 16 goals in the premier league.

Not that David Villa and Rooney are miles apart but Villa has scored 50 goals in 80 games for Spain, was top scorer at Euro 2008 and joint top scorer at the 2010 World Cup. In my opinion he was also one of the best players in each of these tournaments, for his all round play not just his goalscoring ability.

[roverandout]

i wasnt looking for a fight, was just saying your wrong, no need to get personal, you have only been on here 2 minutes and you have read all my posts have you? who's the child now?

[Salgado Is A Hero]

I wasn't looking for a fight either but there are a few posters on here that I would find incredibly rich if they ever accused me of "talking pish" and you are one of them. I don't mind people telling me I am wrong as they are just opinions just as long as it isn't done by saying, "you're talking pish" or "stop digging yourself a hole". That's what made me get personal if u want to call it that.

Long time reader, only just started posting, normally everything is said already.....there are a lot more people who read this board than post on it. Have read a lot of your posts over time.

[RoyRover]

I have always been irked in the past by the sense of entitlement that the press, pundits and some England players have had when it comes to England playing at major tournaments. With Premiership football now being a 24/7 global brand and with the advancements in technology and social media, Sky Sports can constantly drive home the idea that this player and that player are amongst the best in the world, a lot of whom are English, and because people on Sky or in The Sun say it over and over, people and some players have come to think that it is true. This idea is exposed whenever England get to a major tournament and are outclassed by teams and players of superior ability, but with less fan fare and exposure.

However in the case of Wayne Rooney, he clearly is one of the top players in the world. In an earlier post I pointed to his poor performances at the last number of tournaments being a reason to question where he stands in the grand scheme of things and I stand by that. But that doesn't mean to say I don't recognise the supreme talent that the guy has and is the best England player since Paul Scholes.

Obviously Messi and Ronaldo are way ahead of other attacking players in world football right now. Van Persie is probably the next level down below them. But after that, the likes of Aguero, Huntelaar, Llorente, Villa, Rooney, Gomez, Lewandowski, Drogba, Klose, Cavani, Benzema, Higuain, Sanchez and Eto'o are probably roughly at the same level at the moment and that's pretty illustrious company to be in. Wayne Rooney easily fits in with that sort of class of player. At that sort of level, you are really just splitting hairs trying to decide who is ahead of who.

Rooney and Cole are England's two standout players. Gerrard and Lampard have found it difficult to replicate their club form at international level, despite their obvious ability. Joe Hart is a very good goalkeeper, but I don't buy into people who say he is one of the best in the world. He's been the flavour of the month since becoming number one, but for me Casillas, Buffon and Lloris are way out in front. I don't even think Hart is the best goalkeeper in the Premiership.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

I agree with a large portion of that.... especially the first part. I also think there is a tendency to concentrate on midfielders and attackers when discussing the best players and the likes of Ashley Cole and Ferdinand are left out often and I hear things like Rooney is England's only amazing player.

I also think Rooney is an undoubtedly talented footballer, it's just his consistency I question.....I can't think of many players of a similar ability that have that many average or poor games. I had completely forgotten about Eto'o as well, he is arguably better than Rooney.

Because we are in Britain, Rooney is frequently mentioned among the greatest strikers in the world (top 5). However, in other countries they all agree on the first few and then will choose ones who they have seen more often. Eg in Spain, they were all telling me Giuseppe Rossi and Roberto Soldado were definitely among the best in the world. I don't know for certain but I imagine in Italy they consider Cavani to be, or in Germany, players like Gomez, Klose or Lewandowski.

I understand your point about splitting hairs but my personal opinion sees Drogba, what Torres used to be if that is relevant, Van Persie, David Villa, Aguero and Benzema a small but significant cut above all the rest......maybe with Eto'o if he still plays how he used to. Like I say it is a small gap but I still see it......obviously I am not considering Messi and Ronaldo in all of this....or the Yak.

Altho he if were to play at the level he is capable of in the Euro's it will very likely change my perception.

Completely agree with your comments on Joe Hart.....arguably not even in top 3 in the premier league let alone the world......but he is very young for a goal keeper and I think it is likely that one day he will be considered as one of the best in the world.

Interesting you didn't include Ibrahimovich in your list of top strikers.....did you forget or do you go with the English perception of him not being as good cos he rarely plays well against English clubs, like the Italians say about Messi.

[roverandout]

ok lets call a truce, i should have worded if different, just bugs me when people slag english players off just because they are english, im sure if rooney was spanish, brazillian, italian or argentinian then people would sing a different tune, rooney is definately in the top 10 footballers in the world.

[Amo]

ok lets call a truce, i should have worded if different, just bugs me when people slag english players off just because they are english, im sure if rooney was spanish, brazillian, italian or argentinian then people would sing a different tune, rooney is definately in the top 10 footballers in the world.

[RoyRover]

One of the funniest videos I've seen for some time. It's funny because it's true.

[davulsukur]

I didn't even realise it was a spoof

[roverandout]

looking through the german squad, ours is so inferior, they have the best squad in the competition in my opinion, im putting money on germany to win it

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Truce indeed I probably went overboard as well......altho it has nothing to do with the fact that he is English, I rate loads of English players....it's just a lot of them can be over-rated......I guess we should just agree to disagree.

And yea Germany's squad is pretty ridiculous.....them and Spain were my favourite teams to watch at the World Cup........and it's their squad depth as well.......I don't even remember seeing Mario Gotze much at the World Cup but I'm sure he will play a significant part at the Euro's........they have Klose and Podolski as well who seriously up their game at international level.

They are in the group of death tho with Holland and Portugal and it wouldn't even surprise me if they failed to get out of the group. I am putting money on Portugal and Sweden to win it.

[Amo]

I think it's cute people still care about the national side.

I mean, they continually ###### in people's chips and aren't anywhere as good as we make them out to be.

They're enough to drive a man to cricket.

[roverandout]

and rovers dont?

[Amo]

and rovers dont?

Rovers were defying expectations pretty well until the Venkymob showed up.

[joey_big_nose]

Truce indeed I probably went overboard as well......altho it has nothing to do with the fact that he is English, I rate loads of English players....it's just a lot of them can be over-rated......I guess we should just agree to disagree.

And yea Germany's squad is pretty ridiculous.....them and Spain were my favourite teams to watch at the World Cup........and it's their squad depth as well.......I don't even remember seeing Mario Gotze much at the World Cup but I'm sure he will play a significant part at the Euro's........they have Klose and Podolski as well who seriously up their game at international level.

They are in the group of death tho with Holland and Portugal and it wouldn't even surprise me if they failed to get out of the group. I am putting money on Portugal and Sweden to win it.

Sweden?

Ibrahimovic is the only player you could call at all first rate. Kallstrom is pretty good then you are looking at players no better than mid table premiership mediocrity (and that's the better ones like Larsson...). Don't get me wrong - I could see them beating England as we are often terrible, but I can't see them beating the likes of Germany or Spain.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Yea I am putting money on Sweden cos they are 66/1. Don't think they have that good of a chance of winning it but it is football and you never know..... I didn't expect Greece to win it either and Denmark won it in 1992. The odds on the favourites to win it are pretty low obviously so u need to put quite a bit of money on them to make it worthwhile.

They won 8 out of 10 games in qualifying scoring 42 goals and along with Kallstrom, Anders Svensson is a good player and Olof Mellberg was a beast at Villa..... Wilhemsson has impressed me in the past also and Rasmus Elm has been linked with some pretty good European sides......I'm not saying they have a really good squad or anything just they have a few players capable of helping them beat better teams......and with the luck of the draw they may only have to do that once or twice.

I think Ibrahimovich will have a good tournament and depending on who their left wingers are, if Martin Olsson gets played on the wing he could do some serious damage trying to put himself in the shop window as well.....and Sebastian Larsson has to be one of the best free kick takers in the Premier League.

[Veevs]

Yea I am putting money on Sweden cos they are 66/1. Don't think they have that good of a chance of winning it but it is football and you never know..... I didn't expect Greece to win it either and Denmark won it in 1992. The odds on the favourites to win it are pretty low obviously so u need to put quite a bit of money on them to make it worthwhile.

They won 8 out of 10 games in qualifying scoring 42 goals and along with Kallstrom, Anders Svensson is a good player and Olof Mellberg was a beast at Villa..... Wilhemsson has impressed me in the past also and Rasmus Elm has been linked with some pretty good European sides......I'm not saying they have a really good squad or anything just they have a few players capable of helping them beat better teams......and with the luck of the draw they may only have to do that once or twice.

I think Ibrahimovich will have a good tournament and depending on who their left wingers are, if Martin Olsson gets played on the wing he could do some serious damage trying to put himself in the shop window as well.....and Sebastian Larsson has to be one of the best free kick takers in the Premier League.

If you are going for left field potentials, I am shoving a couple of quid on Croatia.. Bilic is apparently stepping down after the tourney and they have some very neat little names in their lineup plus a setup that despite it's minor issues feels right (with more than most looking for big moves)... added to that they have the group from hell to get through with Spain, Italy and Rep of Ireland (who despite everything always throw a suprise result or two), I can see enough upsets/split points in that group for them to scrape though which will give them a huge boost.