[Archived] I'm a Dad, don't get it

[colin]

Why so dismissive Colin?

Seems like your instant dismissal of any post I make is clouding your judgement.

That's fine with me.

Cheers mate

Colin

[Tom]

Now an irresponsible breeder and his sperm bank have been arrested in connection with the death of their six children.

What goes through minds of these people ?

Absolutely disgusting mate I've no idea how they could do it

[thenodrog]

Now an irresponsible breeder and his sperm bank have been arrested in connection with the death of their six children.

What goes through minds of these people ?

What goes through our minds for paying such people to breed? That evil bitch Karen Matthews. Recently released after serving just half her original sentence (why?) now informs the world that she wants to start a family with some scrote that she met during her prison sentence. The only condition on her being released early should have been sterilised.

The powers that be in this country need to adhere to one simple rule, namely.... that no one will ever produce a pedigree from two mongrels! Paying countless thousands to do so is simply storing up massive social problems for the future.

[Mike E]

What goes through our minds for paying such people to breed? That evil bitch Karen Matthews. Recently released after serving just half her original sentence (why?) now informs the world that she wants to start a family with some scrote that she met during her prison sentence. The only condition on her being released early should have been sterilised.

The powers that be in this country need to adhere to one simple rule, namely.... that no one will ever produce a pedigree from two mongrels! Paying countless thousands to do so is simply storing up massive social problems for the future.

You do get the occasional pedigree from a mongrel to be fair. A pal of mine (now in his mid 30's) was born to 2 people who met in prison and now he runs a successful business. By no means is he the rule though; very much the exception.

As for the parents of 17 (with 6 now dead) I struggle to believe they had any role in it. Though I suppose they could've been hunting for a bigger house and hoped to claim the insurance?

Regardless of religion or cause or reason, murdering or harming ANY child should be met with sterilisation. The only theory of 'eugenics' I'd have any agreement with.

[colin]

The only condition on her being released early should have been sterilised.

The powers that be in this country need to adhere to one simple rule, namely.... that no one will ever produce a pedigree from two mongrels! Paying countless thousands to do so is simply storing up massive social problems for the future.

Well old chap, if you are good in this life you may be re-incarnated as a Kommander at Auschwitz-Birkenau; Dachau; Belżec; Chelmno; or Jasenovac. And you'll be truely happy. So, in the meantime live a good & fruitful life and maybe your dream of compulsory sterilisation will come true. All the best. Sleep tight.

[jim mk2]

What goes through our minds for paying such people to breed? That evil bitch Karen Matthews. Recently released after serving just half her original sentence (why?) now informs the world that she wants to start a family with some scrote that she met during her prison sentence. The only condition on her being released early should have been sterilised.

The powers that be in this country need to adhere to one simple rule, namely.... that no one will ever produce a pedigree from two mongrels! Paying countless thousands to do so is simply storing up massive social problems for the future.

Classic Alf. Johnny Speight couldn't have written it better.

[thenodrog]

Well old chap, if you are good in this life you may be re-incarnated as a Kommander at Auschwitz-Birkenau; Dachau; Belżec; Chelmno; or Jasenovac. And you'll be truely happy. So, in the meantime live a good & fruitful life and maybe your dream of compulsory sterilisation will come true. All the best. Sleep tight.

Classic Alf. Johnny Speight couldn't have written it better.

Frivelous but unfortunately very shallow thinking.

You cannot deny that too many 'breeders' are having multiple children before they are 20 as a lifestyle choice. Their children are doing the same so that by the time they are 40 the first lot could be grandmothers 10/12 x over.

Compare that to the kids with drive, motivation and ability who excell in education, meet partners of similar ilk interested in forging ahead in their careers and who through circumstance frequently end up with one (usually spoilt I grant you) child by the time they are 35.

One lot pay lots of tax, the other lot don't. The system is skewed. It doesn't take Einstein to know that without war, plague or some apocolypse that this will end in tears. Basic arithmatic should be enough. You two aren't thick so go figure it out.

[SouthAussieRover]

Frivelous but unfortunately very shallow thinking.

You cannot deny that too many 'breeders' are having multiple children before they are 20 as a lifestyle choice. Their children are doing the same so that by the time they are 40 the first lot could be grandmothers 10/12 x over.

Compare that to the kids with drive, motivation and ability who excell in education, meet partners of similar ilk interested in forging ahead in their careers and who through circumstance frequently end up with one (usually spoilt I grant you) child by the time they are 35.

One lot pay lots of tax, the other lot don't. The system is skewed. It doesn't take Einstein to know that without war, plague or some apocolypse that this will end in tears. Basic arithmatic should be enough. You two aren't thick so go figure it out.

Did you pay attention in English lessons?

[jim mk2]

Frivelous but unfortunately very shallow thinking.

You cannot deny that too many 'breeders' are having multiple children before they are 20 as a lifestyle choice. Their children are doing the same so that by the time they are 40 the first lot could be grandmothers 10/12 x over.

Compare that to the kids with drive, motivation and ability who excell in education, meet partners of similar ilk interested in forging ahead in their careers and who through circumstance frequently end up with one (usually spoilt I grant you) child by the time they are 35.

One lot pay lots of tax, the other lot don't. The system is skewed. It doesn't take Einstein to know that without war, plague or some apocolypse that this will end in tears. Basic arithmatic should be enough. You two aren't thick so go figure it out.

Reads like a synposis of Mein Kampf. You're getting in dangerous territory here Gordon.

[thenodrog]

Reads like a synposis of Mein Kampf. You're getting in dangerous territory here Gordon.

No it doesn't. It reads like exactly what it is.

Cause and effect Jim. We should all try to learn from the lessons of history. A disgruntled, dissatisfied and disillusioned population was the catalyst used by Hitler's National Socialists to rise to power. Sweeping issues under the carpet will only aggravate a situation.

[Rover Down Under]

Frivelous but unfortunately very shallow thinking.

You cannot deny that too many 'breeders' are having multiple children before they are 20 as a lifestyle choice. Their children are doing the same so that by the time they are 40 the first lot could be grandmothers 10/12 x over.

Compare that to the kids with drive, motivation and ability who excell in education, meet partners of similar ilk interested in forging ahead in their careers and who through circumstance frequently end up with one (usually spoilt I grant you) child by the time they are 35.

One lot pay lots of tax, the other lot don't. The system is skewed. It doesn't take Einstein to know that without war, plague or some apocolypse that this will end in tears. Basic arithmatic should be enough. You two aren't thick so go figure it out.

Nod, I wouldn't bother responding to that. Owing to the constant dumbing down of education leftards cannot work out 6x4 because, as I recently read, they "didn't get that far." As for them trying to elucidate the exponential effects of something vastly more complex than a simple multiplication of one factor, forget it.

Reads like a synposis of Mein Kampf. You're getting in dangerous territory here Gordon.

Oh brilliant, resort to the tired, old, predicatble allegations of being a Nazi. I suppose you must also oppose building highways because that was a Nazi policy. Mein Kampf also repudiated big business and animal testing, yet promoted Unions ("As things stand today, the trade unions in my opinion cannot be dispensed with. On the contrary, they are among the most important institutions of the nation's economic life. Their significance lies not only in the social and political field, but even more in the general field of national politics. A people whose broad masses, through a sound trade-union movement, obtain the satisfaction of their living requirements and at the same time an education, will be tremendously strengthened in its power of resistance in the struggle for existence". Chapter 12 Mein Kampf), and Communists ("There is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it. There is, above all, genuine, revolutionary feeling, which is alive everywhere in Russia except where there are Jewish Marxists. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade-union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communists always will.")

So before applying your stupid "Nazi" brush please try and explain the above quotations from the book you so ferverently use in your baseless arguments in explaining your own stance on the above. Or is that to far over your small heads?

[jim mk2]

Dear oh dear, mention their hero Adolf Hitler and the right-wing lunatic fringe comes crawling out from the slime. Presumably they kiss Mein Kampf before they go to bed each night in which case they will have read their great leader's thoughts on sterilisation.

[BPF]

Dear oh dear, mention their hero Adolf Hitler and the right-wing lunatic fringe comes crawling out from the slime. Presumably they kiss Mein Kampf before they go to bed each night in which case they will have read their great leader's thoughts on sterilisation.

There is obviously an ethical issue here that is on the very shakiest of ground possible. However, just as a thought to the people against Gordon on this - Are you okay with convicted pedophiles being allowed to have children and have fully unsupervised access to them?

I don't understand why someone that could pose a risk to a child should be welcomed into having more? Surely this is the same as giving a gun murderer access to his guns again?

[Rover Down Under]

So before applying your stupid "Nazi" brush please try and explain the above quotations from the book you so ferverently use in your baseless arguments in explaining your own stance on the above. Or is that to far over your small heads?

ASKED

Dear oh dear, mention their hero Adolf Hitler and the right-wing lunatic fringe comes crawling out from the slime. Presumably they kiss Mein Kampf before they go to bed each night in which case they will have read their great leader's thoughts on sterilisation.

and NOT ANSWERED as usual, try again please Mr. Revolutionary (ie. Nazi, whose political and social concepts are all borne of the left - keep arguing with me you leftist retard and I'll continue to bury you even further with logical arguments that you can't keep up with...kiss Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il, Castro, Chairman Mao, Hitler etc. and their related lunatic fringe beliefs - not written BUT CARRIED OUT - kiss them goodnight you mass-murdering supporting loon.)

[adopted scouser]

Dear oh dear, mention their hero Adolf Hitler and the right-wing lunatic fringe comes crawling out from the slime. Presumably they kiss Mein Kampf before they go to bed each night in which case they will have read their great leader's thoughts on sterilisation.

This is a message board isn't it ? Resorting to insults where a debate should be taking place. As for the lunatic fringe, SAR is just as bad with pithy one liners.

[jim mk2]

This is a message board isn't it ? Resorting to insults where a debate should be taking place. As for the lunatic fringe, SAR is just as bad with pithy one liners.

The "insults" (such as they are) came first from the great intellectual down under I think you'll find. Await your views on sterilisation and other cleansing as promoted by the lunatic right..

[Tom]

And Godwins law has been reached, looks like that's that

Earlier than expected as well

[SouthAussieRover]

This is a message board isn't it ? Resorting to insults where a debate should be taking place. As for the lunatic fringe, SAR is just as bad with pithy one liners.

And you add precisely what apart from pithy one line statements?

[thenodrog]

and NOT ANSWERED as usual, try again please Mr. Revolutionary (ie. Nazi, whose political and social concepts are all borne of the left - keep arguing with me you leftist retard and I'll continue to bury you even further with logical arguments that you can't keep up with...kiss Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il, Castro, Chairman Mao, Hitler etc. and their related lunatic fringe beliefs - not written BUT CARRIED OUT - kiss them goodnight you mass-murdering supporting loon.)

You're murdering him RDU. He's on the ropes good and proper and his early indoctrination has effectively tied his hands together. It's well funny so stay cool and dont let him sucker you in to giving him a low punch.

[colin]

Cause and effect Jim. We should all try to learn from the lessons of history. A disgruntled, dissatisfied and disillusioned population was the catalyst used by Hitler's National Socialists to rise to power. Sweeping issues under the carpet will only aggravate a situation.

Hello everyone, it looks like we've proved Godwin's Law well and truely. (with apologies to Tom who got there before me.)

I'm interested in your solution Gordon. I do sort of appreciate your concern, but what actually would you want to do about the problem you address. Some kind of forced sterilisation programme perhaps?

You've let us know know your problems, have you got any proposed solutions?

Over to you old chap........

[Steve Moss]

There is nothing wrong with sterilizing rapists, pedophiles, child abusers, and murderers. Especially if the procedure is reversible in the event of a wrongful conviction. Or if there is, I fail to see the moral quandry. If I've missed something, please educate me.

[jim mk2]

Evil is alive and well and living in Pleasington.

[Paul]

There is nothing wrong with sterilizing rapists, pedophiles, child abusers, and murderers. Especially if the procedure is reversible in the event of a wrongful conviction. Or if there is, I fail to see the moral quandry. If I've missed something, please educate me.

Well OK I'll try. There will be a difficulty in this discussion though, I share anyone's disgust at these individuals' actions, interesting you include murderers, but where I differ is in relation to basic human rights. From the tone of your post, and the usual argument put forward to support sterilisation, you probably consider such people forfeit basic human rights. I understand but don't agree with the view.

First, male sterilisation is not easily reversible, I don't know how women are steriised though I can guess or if it is reversible. Therefore the arguement against is similar to capital punishment, the punishment is final and any error cannot be corrected. Possibly you support both and my counter would be to understand your argument regarding a miscarriage of justice. Are you prepared to live in a society which punishes, irreversibly but by accident, an innocent person? I'm not.

Sterilisation will involve an individual's body being restrained and invaded against their will - exactly the actions the offender carried out. At what point do we stop the eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth punishment? Our current legal system provides clarity and stops on this,where does your view? At what point do make the distinction? At what point does the punisher rise above the offender?

I'm unsure where medical staff stand on this but based on the need to give written consent for any operation I guess there is a an issue for them. We would be asking surgeons and associated medics to entirely reverse their duties. If a surgeon, for example, was prepared to undertake the sterilisation would you be inclined to trust him/her in relation to more routine stuff? How many might take matters into their own hands if they felt a patient to be worthless to society?

Then we turn to basic human rights. Always difficult because the counter arguement is these offenders forfeit their basic rights. Accepting this takes us down a tricky path; perhaps a terror suspect deserves torture as the information gained justifies the action. Possibly we should return to more Victorian style prisons because criminals deserve real punishment and it's probably a lot cheaper. Again where do we stop if torturing a terrorist is justifiable who else deserves this and who does not? Do we want to lock people away for relatively minor offences? An arguement will always arise as to why it is deserved from your side of the fence.

I understand the emotion and agree the acts are despicable. I also understand state sponsored violence against offenders is a rocky road to a violent society. It is a short step from sterilising criminals to the same action against those deemed of little use to society. Perhaps we could only give state benefits to those prepared to be sterilised - a couple of generations and we'd have a society full of hard working, educated people, utopia?. Of course there are even quicker ways to achieve that aim.

The moral quandary you wanted explained is simple; where does it stop? Where is the line in the sand? Is it right to accept the execution or sterilisation of an innocent person as the price we pay to provide the deterrent. If you had a son convicted of rape, sterilised and then found innocent you would accept this without any objection? You would have no issue if an innocent relative was found guilty of murder and executed? Mistakes happen but this is what your arguement asks for and accepts.

That is the moral quandary.

[Paul]

Compare that to the kids with drive, motivation and ability who excell in education, meet partners of similar ilk interested in forging ahead in their careers and who through circumstance frequently end up with one (usually spoilt I grant you) child by the time they are 35.

I know a young woman who fits this description, highly educated at the state's expense (that's you and me), very motivated and driven in the unpaid voluntary work she does, the state pays her expenses to go conferences etc (you and me again). Since leaving university her only paid employment has been part-time in an organic fruit shop. Will probably never earn sufficient to pay taxes to repay her education.

A case for sterilisation or would intelligence preclude her?

[thenodrog]

I'm interested in your solution Gordon. I do sort of appreciate your concern, but what actually would you want to do about the problem you address. Some kind of forced sterilisation programme perhaps?

Financial inducements for a start.

Plea bargaining for more lenient prison sentences for certain crimes for a second.

Whatever I suggest will be ridiculed by the likes of you but to accept a problem and do nothing simply because it offends one's sensibilities is an abdication of responsibility and the handing down of future bigger problems to our descendents. People like you need to face up to problems and not ignore them. Prevention is always better than cure.

So now that I've started the ball rolling it's your turn Colin. Off you go. btw Anything involving a bucket of sand and one's head is not acceptable.