[Archived] BRSIT urge owners to get in touch.

[Tom]

Stubbs - are you involved mate? If so what's your role in regards to Brsit?

[Tarka]

I think this is a very good idea and I have given my pledge.

It's hard for me to get to games as many of my fellow BRFCS members do so this is a great opportunity to show my support to the club that I follow.

[StubbsUK]

Stubbs - are you involved mate? If so what's your role in regards to Brsit?

I am Tom, my role is officially "Social Media Expert/Advisor", but a better description is "Forum Monkey" :-)

I keep an eye on the various forums & spread the word about any news. Answer any questions I can & get answers from the rest of the team when I can't.

I personally dont believe the Rao's would sell cheaply and certainly not for 10 Million,they are hard faced business people at the end of the day(much to our demise).

The £10m is an arbitrary amount to prove the the Trust is serious, until anyone knows what (or even IF) the price is, we don't know how much we would need, but have to start somewhere. Having said that, after relegation & selling the clubs biggest assets, Rovers is not worth what it was 18 months ago.

For the record I was only contesting the use of the phrase 'true fan' as its been banded about here there and everywhere last season

At the moment I'm not committing but id hope there becomes a time when I feel comfortable enough with the whole thing to do so.

Tom, is there anything in particular holding you back?

[Tom]

As I have previously mentioned the tweets on the morning that the 'rival' (for want of a better word) bid broke really made me concerned about the man in the spotlight and as a result it unfortunately tarnishes the whole proposal (for me only - I would never speak for someone else)

It may have been simply misjudged but it just all didn't sit right with me.

Interestingly enough in your role I suppose that's something you have had to deal with and any fallout that occured.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

As the days,weeks and months crawl painfully by,when/are the Rao's going to finally engage with any supporters groups?

I just feel we are in total limbo as supporters of this club,since when did any business ignore the opinions and wishes of its customers?.I really do believe they wish we would all go away and just let them get on with the clubs ruination.

Never known anything like this,whoever is running this club has it sawn up on all levels,people are untouchable,do as we say or else,total control.

Total frustration for the fans...we are like a dog chasing its tail at the moment.

Sick to the back teeth of it all.

[Hughesy]

Not reading back - have they raised £10m yet? Or is it somewhere much closer to £2m still???

[TBTF]

Not reading back - have they raised £10m yet? Or is it somewhere much closer to £2m still???

close to £2million but thats only pledges at this stage not cash raised-its going to be a big ask in the time needed because at this rate we will be bottom of Championship in around 4 months time!!

[Hughesy]

close to £2million but thats only pledges at this stage not cash raised-its going to be a big ask in the time needed because at this rate we will be bottom of Championship in around 4 months time!!

So £2m PLEDGES.....of which at least 10% will fall away no doubt.

No chance - give up the dream of sole ownership by fans and try to join with a group like Seneca

[Stuart]

So £2m PLEDGES.....of which at least 10% will fall away no doubt.

No chance - give up the dream of sole ownership by fans and try to join with a group like Seneca

Has to be - unless there's some other partner lined up.

[TBTF]

So £2m PLEDGES.....of which at least 10% will fall away no doubt.

No chance - give up the dream of sole ownership by fans and try to join with a group like Seneca

I FEAR IT MIGHT BE QUITE A BIT MORE THAN 10% TBH WHEN THE CRUNCH COMES

[Roost]

So £2m PLEDGES.....of which at least 10% will fall away no doubt.

No chance - give up the dream of sole ownership by fans and try to join with a group like Seneca

Agree Hughesy. Anyone thinking this will work is kidding themselves.

[mhead]

Once again too pessimistic....and no need to shout.

I presume you have not pledged yet? Be Positive.

[Tom]

I would imagine the majority of the pledges will stump up the cash but there's a long long long way to go yet (even if all those did pay up its only £2m or enough for a Keith Andrews or similar)

It seems to be heading in the right direction but I do think part ownership is far more likely than anything else right now, incidentally I would prefer that as it would ease my previous concerns about the people involved getting into a position of power.

[BPF]

So £2m PLEDGES.....of which at least 10% will fall away no doubt.

No chance - give up the dream of sole ownership by fans and try to join with a group like Seneca

We don't agree on a lot but I'm with you on this one.

I think that the 10% will be a lot higher. It is an easy to fill out form on the internet. How many people have signed up that are nothing more than WUM's and children. There would also be a number of people that have had a change in financial circumstance. It's sad but this idea will never work, not in a million years.

[Kendalrover]

If some of you guys had been around in the Stone Age we would still be living in caves. (Why move to a mud hut when you can live in a nice warm cave)

It is better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all.

What's the alternative? No Blackburn Rovers.

[Roost]

If some of you guys had been around in the Stone Age we would still be living in caves. (Why move to a mud hut when you can live in a nice warm cave)

It is better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all.

What's the alternative? No Blackburn Rovers.

Sorry Kendal, but I can't agree. I met up with some members of this site on Saturday and without exception, we agreed it was no more than a pipe dream. By the way, none of us ridiculed the idea but knew that after so much coverage the project topped out at 2M.

An alternative? Let's wait and see.

[Random Bird]

We don't agree on a lot but I'm with you on this one.

I think that the 10% will be a lot higher. It is an easy to fill out form on the internet. How many people have signed up that are nothing more than WUM's and children. There would also be a number of people that have had a change in financial circumstance. It's sad but this idea will never work, not in a million years.

I hear a lot of people saying "it won't work" but never do they say WHY they think that. I suspect that those who think "it won't work" have little idea of the range of company ownership structures that exist in this country so don't really understand that community ownership not only exists in the UK but also has some excellent examples of successful businesses. If I were to suggest that a large and very successful high street retailer could be owned by its employees no doubt people would say "it won't work", yet John Lewis seems to do okay.

Maybe I'm biased because I've worked with community ownership for the last 21 years, so I actually KNOW what is possible. Experience of community buyouts shows that on average 90% of pledges turn into actual share purchase, experience also shows that once a share offer goes live people who weren't ready to make a 'pledge' beforehand also buy shares. Experience also shows that there will always be people who say "it won't work" even after the buyout takes place.

There are excellent examples of successful community ownership in sport around the world. I do understand that people might be unsure about how it translates into the higher levels of league football in England.

The most valid point in your post is that people might have a change in financial circumstance, but if people plan and start setting money aside now ( you know, the old fashioned idea of saving up for something) then the impact of unforeseen changes can be mitigated. After all the money isnt needed immediately, and ( and I'll be realistic) it may never be needed - but that's the beauty of a pledge.

If you think "it won't work" please let us know why. I'd also be interested to know how you come to this conclusion when a whole host of experts in community ownership (much more expert than me!) are fully supporting the initiative because they know it CAN work.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

[Roversider]

If some of you guys had been around in the Stone Age we would still be living in caves. (Why move to a mud hut when you can live in a nice warm cave)

It is better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all.

What's the alternative? No Blackburn Rovers.

Totally agree, then again even some of the cavemen would have followed those who moved into better accomodation when they realised that it actually existed .......

Anyway, not everyone will be convinced - ever, they can stay behind. The rest of us will continue on our way and remember - the only thing that can stop us is ourselves, if you don't buy a lottery ticket then you are sure not to win.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

I think most people are saying it won't work as it requires Venky's to sell the club for £10 million when they apparently want 30.

[Kendalrover]

Sorry Kendal, but I can't agree. I met up with some members of this site on Saturday and without exception, we agreed it was no more than a pipe dream. By the way, none of us ridiculed the idea but knew that after so much coverage the project topped out at 2M.

I still think it will bear fruit.

1200 people have pledged to date. Around 400 people on Saturday said they hadn't pledged but would consider it.

Add to this the possibility that a lot of people are still unaware or unsure of the proposal (plus a potentially large untapped ex pat community) I think it could grow.

There is no big money buyer out there. Blackburn Rovers are a small town Championship club in Lancashire. There are absolutely no commercial reasons for making large amounts of money (return) on an investment or attracting any big name players. The only people who will interested in Rovers will be 'locals'.

When Venky's have to sell the club (and the time will come no matter what they say) it will probably be worth around £10M (plus any outstanding parachute payments). A trust with around £2M will have to be invited in by any potential buyer as they could not be ignored considering what is happening now. If £10M could be raised then they would be a big player in any takeover.

I think once shares are issued and around say £1.5M to £2M invested other people will see its worth and start to invest.

Yes the trust may not raise enough to buy the club but they might raise enough to be part of a takeover bid and have a say in the way the club is run in future.

Also bear in mind that if the trust bought Rovers it would be the largest community club in the UK. That means there are a lot of people interested in this happening.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Between them, do Wild, Currie, Battersby, Khan and the fans have enough cash to make a big offer?

[Roversider]

Between them, do Wild, Currie, Battersby, Khan and the fans have enough cash to make a big offer?

We don't know what price the club will be available for. The average valuation of a Championship club is much closer to £10 million rather than what Venkys bought the club for. However it's complicated by what debt is with the club, what aspects of the income have been mortgaged etc.

The two groups you allude to are different, we don't know how much the Seneca group have at their disposal. However dependent on the assets available that could be flexible as it will probably include an amount of debt. Rovers can bear a degree of debt. The debt comment also would apply to BRSIT (it's not Wayne Wild, he's just been the catalyst with Dan Grabko).

Suffice to say is that in my opinion that when the current owners choose to sell then the funds to match any alternative bids could be raised. It has been suggested that Venkys want £30 million, I want £2 million for my house but I realise that my desire is a long way from the valuation ANY potential buyer has.

The price will reflect the true value of the club when it is sold.

[Stuart]

Between them, do Wild, Currie, Battersby, Khan and the fans have enough cash to make a big offer?

I'd say no, not personal wealth anyway.

- Wild is a director of a local engineering firm

- Currie and Battersby are own an investment company

- Khan is an investment banker

They may well be very well off but not "football club ownership well off" - perhaps they could make a bid for a lower league club - so maybe one day!

- Fans (BRSIT) have "raised" about £2m in non-commital IOUs.

The hope is that Currie/Battersby have enough contacts to pull together funds for a bid. But the fact they involvement in the investment industry suggests they will be seeking people who wish to make a return on their funds. Is that really an option at Rovers? (Or any football club for that matter?).

Football clubs aren't an investment, they are a passion - for people with more money than sense (excluding really thick poor people). Why would anyone think there is a return possible - particularly post-Venkys? What value is left in the club? Brockhall? Aside from land or player trading, the only other investment dream is to get to the PL and get their hands on the lolly - e.g. Burnley - but it's not sustainable without expending massive wages, minimising the margins.

We need passionate people who want to make this work - sadly these people (fans) cannot afford to buy or run the club without (financial) help. For a good while, our best hope was that Venkys would make a go of it but that ship has sailed.

The dream has died.

[Andy]

For those asking 'why won't it work?', it's quite simple:

Rovers supporters simply don't have enough money between them to make this happen.

It's a dream, a nice dream, but particularly in the current financial climate, the required amount of money will simply not be raised.

[Stuart]

For those asking 'why won't it work?', it's quite simple:

Rovers supporters simply don't have enough money between them to make this happen.

It's a dream, a nice dream, but particularly in the current financial climate, the required amount of money will simply not be raised.

And/or there simply aren't enough Rovers fans. Imagine paying £20 per month (reasonably realistic for the area) on direct debit to "own" the club - with 10,000 supporters, that's nearly £2.5m per year income.

It'd take about 3 years to save enough money (including interest payments) to buy the club - and that's if they would sell for £10m. (Ironically, perhaps in 3 years that might look like a lot!)

Then at a rough guess at £10k per week for 14 players is over £7m per year. (Championship). Even half that, £3.5m per year, would blow our budget.

To pump £20m in per year and make it feasible, just in running costs, we'd need 80,000 supporters!!