[Archived] Zucked

[thenodrog]

Am I missing something? People invested in some random company which in the words of Trekkies the world over has no effective lifeform but only exists in cyberspace and which appeared by most financial comparisons to be massively overvalued. Investment whose only hope of succeeding rests in advertising just so long as no one dreams up something better or more 'hip' than facebook. Fashions change, people's attentions can only be diverted for so long before boredom and disinterest take over. I wish I had had the stroke of luck it's founder Mark Zuckerberg encountered on the day he dreamed it all up. Early days yet but driven by nothing but greed it looks like those investors face the prospect of losing significantly.

New terms have entered the language to describe this condition... 'Zucked'(v) (and presumably 'Zuckers'(n)). The latter could hardly be more accurate. How often are we informed that 'shares can go down as well as up'? The best saying as my old mother frequently reminded me was that 'fools and their money are soon parted'. Now the strange modern phenomenon 'the blame culture' is weighing in... 'it's not our fault we were misled / misinformed', I'm gonna sue' etc'. Again my Mothers words dredged from her upbringing in the days of the great depression between the wars to describe such 'they've been led right up the garden path' seem at this moment to be the best fit.

Is it only me who finds this hilarious? Is it only me who hopes the lot of em crash and burn for their base stupidity? As for Mr Zuckerberg.... Do you and the all new 'er indoors' like English Championship footy by any chance?

[adopted scouser]

I love facebook. Over the years I've worked in towns up and down the country, and have been contacted by old mates/employees, it's fab although pretty addictive.

I too though can't grasp how investors will get a return. Advertising ? The site will probably remain free so I'm baffled.

[Biddy]

The Facebook floatation reminds me of the lastminute.com fiasco 12 years ago. Everyone wanted to jump on the Internet bandwagon and own a bit of the dot com world.

Didn't work out too well BBC News

No one ever learns.

[Biddy]

To be fair thats a bit of an odd reply. Can't see anything suggesting that facebook itself should crash and burn more that there are oddballs out there that paid above the odds for shares for a company that creates nothing but advert revenue. No one knows how much they may pay in dividend if anything yet people are willing to buy shares at $38-$45 just for the fact its facebook.

I think the "zucked" term is well justified in that there is now a law suit against facebook and Morgan Stanley for hiding projected revenue growth as not being what consumers were led to believe.

Still, the fact people buy at that price I think they deserve what they get.

[thenodrog]

The Facebook floatation reminds me of the lastminute.com fiasco 12 years ago. Everyone wanted to jump on the Internet bandwagon and own a bit of the dot com world.

Didn't work out too well BBC News

No one ever learns.

Can't imagine the buyers of Friends Re-united fared much better.

Oh well never mind eh?

[thenodrog]

Can't say I'm willing them to crash and burn! Facebook has done quite a lot for me and has inspired the technological age in the only place that Google didn't. I even got a job via Facebook a few years ago. Not sure what the animosity can be other than jealousy, theno, as you so strongly hinted at throughout your entire post. Personally it sounds like you wished you were Zuckerberg but because you aren't you want him to fall flat on his face.

In a nutshell ET. Come to think about it if he did I'd be laughing at him almost as much as he is laughing at his investors right now!

[Baz]

Due to the massive interest in buying these shares they were bound to be overpriced. Add that to the fact a lot of people bought in order to sell 1st day and try to make a profit on the boom, then the price was also bound to be too high.

Zuckerberg is still a major shareholder so the price is affecting his 'paper' wealth too, so I doubt he's laughing about this.

[broadsword]

It really is a company built on nothing at all.

If people just used it as a messenging service it would fall to bits.

These online sites have a limited lifespan, and I think facebook's going to run into problems at some point soon.

[ABBEY]

facebook? never heard of it.

[adopted scouser]

facebook? never heard of it.

Course you haven't ! How's the overseas bronco site going

[ABBEY]

its going good thanks. Ive got some ads that im hoping can self fund it and Im getting good reviews from all over the world and not one rant or swear word on it lol....if anyone wants to go thru the betting zone or discount page theres all sorts of deals on.Also I need pics of NFL days out.

if anyone wants to buy it for a million ,im easy as long as its offshore and csa free ha

[Ozz]

[thenodrog]

It's an odd reply because I totally misread his initial post. Oops.

Nowt new there then.

[Paul]

Can't say I'm willing them to crash and burn! Facebook has done quite a lot for me and has inspired the technological age in the only place that Google didn't. I even got a job via Facebook a few years ago. Not sure what the animosity can be other than jealousy, theno, as you so strongly hinted at throughout your entire post. Personally it sounds like you wished you were Zuckerberg but because youI aren't you want him to fall flat on his face.

This is an interesting comment. I'm registered on Facebook and Friends Reunited and TBH can't really understand the point of either. I would be interested to know how Facebook has helped you because in my experience it's simply the world's largest collection of chit chat, videos and photographs. Nothing wrong with that but I see no commercial value in it.

My wife used to use FB a lot, especially to keep in touch and "chat" with overseas friends. She says it helps her keep in touch with ex colleagues now she has moved to a different sector in her profession. I like the phone and email both of which still seem to work.

Many companies invite me to join them on FB. Why? What possible reason could I have for following M&S on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube or whatever? Now online shopping and the ability to research many things on the web is marvellous, saves me no end of time, but if I want a shirt I'll pop into M&S when I'm passing.

Sites like Facebook, Friends, You Tube, even this one, for me waste much effort with online advertising as I never click a link. If I want car hire, I google guess what? Car hire!! In fact it wasn't till Stuart mentioned it I realised the mobile adverts on the MB had arrived. Simply hadn't noticed them!

Friends Reunited was great fun and a highly original idea. Since it was bought out, ITV?, its done nothing. Facebook is built on a similar arguement, ultimately sand, and it's revenues on even less. It seems to me the shares are probably worth a sixth of the asking price, little more.

I use the web a great deal, really like it and am certainly not a dinosaur but the value of a company built solely in advertising to millions of people who probably aren't that interested? Making things earns money not advertising them!

If I need a drainage expert? Unsure........

[thenodrog]

This is an interesting comment. I'm registered on Facebook and Friends Reunited and TBH can't really understand the point of either. I would be interested to know how Facebook has helped you because in my experience it's simply the world's largest collection of chit chat, videos and photographs. Nothing wrong with that but I see no commercial value in it.

My wife used to use FB a lot, especially to keep in touch and "chat" with overseas friends. She says it helps her keep in touch with ex colleagues now she has moved to a different sector in her profession. I like the phone and email both of which still seem to work.

Many companies invite me to join them on FB. Why? What possible reason could I have for following M&S on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube or whatever? Now online shopping and the ability to research many things on the web is marvellous, saves me no end of time, but if I want a shirt I'll pop into M&S when I'm passing.

Sites like Facebook, Friends, You Tube, even this one, for me waste much effort with online advertising as I never click a link. If I want car hire, I google guess what? Car hire!! In fact it wasn't till Stuart mentioned it I realised the mobile adverts on the MB had arrived. Simply hadn't noticed them!

Friends Reunited was great fun and a highly original idea. Since it was bought out, ITV?, its done nothing. Facebook is built on a similar arguement, ultimately sand, and it's revenues on even less. It seems to me the shares are probably worth a sixth of the asking price, little more.

I use the web a great deal, really like it and am certainly not a dinosaur but the value of a company built solely in advertising to millions of people who probably aren't that interested? Making things earns money not advertising them!

If I need a drainage expert? Unsure........

Nice to agree on something then Paul.

btw I think the answer to the advertising stuff is in the word subliminal. We don't 'see' it but our minds do register it.... at lerast thats what the advertising execs will tell their clients.

btw2 remember 'blipverts' from the Max Headroom film? (They made fat people watching telly explode). I think the word even made it into the Oxford English dictionary a year or two back.

[Paul]

Fair enough ET I can understand the point.

As the discussion involves advertising and thenodrog mentioned a few weeks back the scary amount of personal detail knocking around on the web I was disturbed(!) when I came here this morning. I wasn't logged in so received the adverts bit at first. Two minutes prior to visiting the site I'd been checking car insurance online. The banner advert immediately offered me cover on the precise model, from the same insurers as confused.com. I vaguely know how this works as Glenn explained it to me but good Lord it's intrusive - I look at car insurance then visit BRFCS and find the same stuff popping up on here.

I find this very disturbing and makes you wonder about the wisdom of using online resources.

[SouthAussieRover]

I agree Paul.

It does make one wonder about all the links to the current European law about cookies etc that this site alludes to.

Then one logs on to BRFCS.com and adverts are targeting what one looked at elsewhere.

[bellamy11]

Fair enough ET I can understand the point.

As the discussion involves advertising and thenodrog mentioned a few weeks back the scary amount of personal detail knocking around on the web I was disturbed(!) when I came here this morning. I wasn't logged in so received the adverts bit at first. Two minutes prior to visiting the site I'd been checking car insurance online. The banner advert immediately offered me cover on the precise model, from the same insurers as confused.com. I vaguely know how this works as Glenn explained it to me but good Lord it's intrusive - I look at car insurance then visit BRFCS and find the same stuff popping up on here.

I find this very disturbing and makes you wonder about the wisdom of using online resources.

I understand your point, Paul. Suppose it depends how much you "value" privacy (and how you define "value").

I actually like the idea that things can be tailored to what I want. Not quite the same thing (because I voluntarily signed up for a clubcard), but I like that Tesco sends me clubcard vouchers for products I actually buy. I know it's worked out by a machine, but it feels kind of personal.

If I'm searching around for car insurance and then an advert tells me how I can insure my exact car then that has made my life easier. The obvious downside is that these sites are programmed to recognise what you want and adjust the price accordingly. I read recently that American Airlines change their prices half a million(!) times a day.

[thenodrog]

I understand your point, Paul. Suppose it depends how much you "value" privacy (and how you define "value").

I actually like the idea that things can be tailored to what I want. Not quite the same thing (because I voluntarily signed up for a clubcard), but I like that Tesco sends me clubcard vouchers for products I actually buy. I know it's worked out by a machine, but it feels kind of personal.

If I'm searching around for car insurance and then an advert tells me how I can insure my exact car then that has made my life easier. The obvious downside is that these sites are programmed to recognise what you want and adjust the price accordingly. I read recently that American Airlines change their prices half a million(!) times a day.

Stick to cash as much as you can and deal with people who are in a position to make decisions.

[Paul]

I understand your point, Paul. Suppose it depends how much you "value" privacy (and how you define "value").

My concerns about privacy would only relate to what information is being captured. If I was concerned over personal privacy, that is who I am and where I place that info, I wouldn't use my real name on MBs or post some of things I have.

My worry is a "programme" is capable of capturing the data, all the usual insurance stuff, entered on to a website to which I was logged in and presumed secure. The data is then used to advertise to me elsewhere, it just happens to be BRFCS. It's not the privacy but what is captured and what is done with it for financial gain - no point in obtaining the data if no money is exchanged.

I actually like the idea that things can be tailored to what I want. Not quite the same thing (because I voluntarily signed up for a clubcard), but I like that Tesco sends me clubcard vouchers for products I actually buy. I know it's worked out by a machine, but it feels kind of personal.

I've no objection to this other than Tesco pay you and me a very small amount in comparison to the value of the data collected. This is the real objective of loyalty cards and the rewards offered.

I think the crucial difference is we both willingly signed up to give Tesco the data and to receive the offers. In my example above I did not sign up for confused.com to sell my data to advertisers used by BRFCS.com. One is with my authority the other not.

If I'm searching around for car insurance and then an advert tells me how I can insure my exact car then that has made my life easier. The obvious downside is that these sites are programmed to recognise what you want and adjust the price accordingly. I read recently that American Airlines change their prices half a million(!) times a day.

Yes accept that POV but my general view is I don't want my data sold by those I have willingly given it to. Generally this results in junk mail, in every form, and I never purchase from any company which provides me with unsolicited information. I really do not like junk mail, it's either immediately deleted or recycled - except I now have to open it, shred my name and address before recycling which causes unwanted hassle and makes me even more determined never to buy from such companies.

As an example the AA keep writing insisting our membership will expire on June 6th, coincidentally the same date as the car insurance! We have a membership number, account etc. but have never signed up for AA membership. (My work uses RAC and I added my wife to that membership).

After a lot of questioning the AA finally admitted we are not paying members but have a complimentary membership. At a guess this somehow came with an insurance policy though our current and renewed insurers deny any such actuvity and in fact use Green Flag.

So barring some major cock up the AA have gained enough detail, without our knowledge, to give us free membership. We really are members and could call them out! I now have to spend the next month monitoring the bank account and credit cards to be sure the AA takes no money.

I don't know how the above happens but it has. The AA have been less than helpful, quite aggressive in fact considering we are members / customers, and are now on my never do business with list - despite their insurance offer being £38 less than the one I chose. The main decision BTW being based on the attitude of the call centre staff.

TBH I'd much rather pay to use MBs than have the adverts but it doesn't overcome the data capture issue.

[thenodrog]

Due to the massive interest in buying these shares they were bound to be overpriced. Add that to the fact a lot of people bought in order to sell 1st day and try to make a profit on the boom, then the price was also bound to be too high.

Zuckerberg is still a major shareholder so the price is affecting his 'paper' wealth too, so I doubt he's laughing about this.

As I expected Zuckerberg's spewed almost 5 billion to date. Just think what BRIST could have done with that lot.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/08/03/facebook-stock-falls-below-20-dollars_n_1736206.html