[Archived] Rovers Supporters Groups and Communities (was Blackburn United)

[Stuart]

Guys. Does it really matter? Sir Bill is trying to do something good and productive. Something I thought wouldn't be possible (in fact something I'd be told by key people in some of the groups would NEVER happen), so lets focus on that and the not fact that BRFC Action Group ended up with an unfortunate commonly used shorter nickname.

This place infuriates me at times.

I think it matters because I, for one, would have carried on calling Glen's group BRAG - which would probably have offended him as in his view this was an extremist group with which he was not, and does not want to be associated.

I think that the record should be put straight so that everyone understands the distinction.

I will no longer refer to Glen's group as BRAG now I know the connotations.

This place infuriates me sometimes, as it goes.

[Glenn]

Fair point

I blame it on Sun, Cider and Eurovision.

[Pitty]

Guys. Does it really matter? Sir Bill is trying to do something good and productive. Something I thought wouldn't be possible (in fact something I'd be told by key people in some of the groups would NEVER happen), so lets focus on that and the not fact that BRFC Action Group ended up with an unfortunate commonly used shorter nickname.

This place infuriates me at times.

Lol, obviously it doe's to some people, BRAG BRFCAG BLACKBURN UNITED. Who gives a f@ck, main thing now is for everyboby to pull together and get this club back were it deserves to be, and more importantly get the fans on side with each other and enjoy our one true love back at ewood.

[Stuart]

Fair point

I blame it on Sun, Cider and Eurovision.

Forgot all about Eurovision, who's winning?

[HemelRover]

Forgot all about Eurovision, who's winning?

Not music, that's for sure.

[Glenn]

Forgot all about Eurovision, who's winning?

I have no idea. There were some mad Russian Grannies doing Europop earlier ... other than that I've been lead on the sofa working on the next version of the website.

[mark1875]

This is getting completely off topic and is turning into a discussion that really is not worth having!

BRAG - Was something that once we had become "the BRFC Action Group" people began to shorten the name to! Glenn informed us of the original "brag" which is something our committee collectively knew nothing about or indeed to my knowledge none of our members was aware of.

The BRFC Action Group is often shortened to brag, something i, nor Glen have never personally used to my knowledge? (unless someone chooses to prove me wrong).

The point of Glens post was to, i'm sure state the groups stance on our meeting and rather than share it with the 10 people in the room on Thursday night, throw it open to everyone. What happened in the meeting was a 'progress report' on all the groups representatives present, sharing our future plans and a discussion on what we all hope to achieve both immediate and long term, something we as a group have made clear over the last 9 months. Glens intention as far as i read it, was to throw it open on here what the Action Groups progress/plans are, in the hope that others present on Thursday share their groups progress/plans.

A debate over a name is not important considering the wider issues surrounding us at the moment, however the shortening of the group should be "BRFCAG" as all 6 letters are in the name, not just 4 of them - but does that really matter? picking out an irrelevant sentence amongst a very relevant post is simply dragging the thread of topic.

I would hope Ozz, Steb, John (if he uses this forum) will share their views on here regarding the meeting, in order to bring the thread back on topic, as i'm sure they will agree the formation of a new group was certainly not what was agreed.

I have my reasons for believing in one group of people as i am sure everyone does, however i feel it's important to publicise what went on at the Golf Club on Thursday as transparency is very important to me personally.

I have no idea. There were some mad Russian Grannies doing Europop earlier ... other than that I've been lead on the sofa working on the next version of the website.

I know i am taking it back off topic, but its worth a watch (or maybe not ) lol

[Stuart]

I know i am taking it back off topic, but its worth a watch (or maybe not ) lol

They're gonna win, aren't they.

At the very least, it's gonna go viral!

[FourLaneBlue]

Until all these groups put their differences behind them and unite into just ONE protest group then they will remain impotent and those they are against will not even deign to know them.

Power comes from solidarity, not a load of different splinter groups.

[PAFELL]

Until all these groups put their differences behind them and unite into just ONE protest group then they will remain impotent and those they are against will not even deign to know them.

Power comes from solidarity, not a load of different splinter groups.

Correct. Though I hate the word United. But the idea is right. Just needs a different word than United. People though appear to have different agendas or ways of doing things. But there also needs to be the different groups - because it is different ways of applying pressure on the owners to sell. Or at least get rid of Kean. The common goal was Rovers being run properly and Kean sacked. That goal has changed to venkys and kean out.

If I have understood Sir Bill Taylors idea correctly. He is happy there is the different groups. But wants these groups, keeping their own name / identity etc. to come under one roof. People can join what ever group they want. but come together with the same aim of getting Venkys and Kean out.

My view instead of blackburn united, maybe Blackburn rovers supporters club.

[mark1875]

Until all these groups put their differences behind them and unite into just ONE protest group then they will remain impotent and those they are against will not even deign to know them.

Power comes from solidarity, not a load of different splinter groups.

When the supporters of Blackburn Rovers had no voice 9 months ago, the BRFC Action Group was born, the people involved took a hell of a lot of critism, even worse came threats and the lowest possible low physical assaults towards them.

This campaign was never born out of personal gain, as some claim, nor were those involved scare-mongering as others claimed, the John Williams leaked email, coupled with the Paul Hunt leaked email and the sacking of John Newsham falls into line and backs up the 'claims' the Action Group made over the months.

The group has always been and remains open to all, we have tried on many occasions, notably the 'open floor meeting' at the Manxman in February to bring people together onto the same path to achieve a common goal, however people either refused to attend or showed no interest.

Some have claimed 'ulterior motives' some have openly claimed to 'not like those involved', however there are many groups whom have stalled or not been pro active over the last ten months that have now come forward as the situation as unfolded. It is my personal opinion that no group stood up when it needed to be counted, except for the Action Group - which is why i became so involved. We have waited 2 years for an official endorsed representation to get off the groun, yet it is still "in its infancy" despite the fact it was needed months ago,as the time was then, not now.

One group has been pro-active, brought our plight to the attention of the world and has secured meetings with the Premier League, the Sports Minister and is in dialogue with the Football League, the F.A and Uefa. On top of this community leaders, the towns famous people and other influential figures have come on board, whilst other groups have stood still and done nothing whilst our club has lost its premiership status.

If people want unity, then the group to stand alongside is the group that always has and is continuing to actively fight for the supporters. There is no need to unite together in my personal opinion, as it is up to each individual to decide whether they wish to support those standing still or choose to get behind those who are actively seeking answers for the supporters of Blackburn Rovers and the community of Blackburn.

[Glenn]

Until all these groups put their differences behind them and unite into just ONE protest group then they will remain impotent and those they are against will not even deign to know them.

Power comes from solidarity, not a load of different splinter groups.

y

I disagree. As I said right at the start, no one group could ever hope to represent all fans. That's not the fault of any group, they all do their best to represent the members (as they should), but we have such a wide diversity of fans and opinions that no one group could ever dream of representing everyone. You're never going to get hardcore protesters and Rovers Fans represented by the same group are you?

[mark1875]

Should the BDSA stop laying on a minibus to games because they don't back BRAG's protests?

I do not like lines such as this, whilst the BRFC Action Group has arranged protests from a legal platform for the supporters this season, the group is not primarily a protest group. 95% of what the group does is not protest related, it is an FSF affiliated supporters group, we remain the most advanced and pro-active representation that Blackburn Rovers supporters have.

Being seen merely as a protest group is quite offensive considering the committee and the members it represents have made major inroads in gaining clarification for the supporters with both political and governing bodies.

[Glenn]

I do not like lines such as this, whilst the BRFC Action Group has arranged protests from a legal platform for the supporters this season, the group is not primarily a protest group. 95% of what the group does is not protest related, it is an FSF affiliated supporters group, we remain the most advanced and pro-active supporters representation Blackburn Rovers has.

Being seen merely as a protest group is quite offensive considering the committee and the members it represents have made major inroads in gaining clarification for the supporters with both political and governing bodies.

No, but my point was, the group was (I believe) responsible for organising the later protests and because of that there are some supporters groups and community that are unlikely to join (BDSA was a poor example, I've no idea what their stance was on the protests). I certainly wasn't claiming it was all you did and I think your attempt to change the perception of the group from it's rather rocky first few steps is commendable, but it's going to take some people a long time to forgive and forget those early days.However Sir Bill's proposal was a good work around for this problem, which is what this thread should be about.

I know exactly how you feel though, having BRFCS called a forum and the FF called a talking shop niggles me. Both have achieved so much over the last decade or so, but it's never what gets noticed.

[PAFELL]

When the supporters of Blackburn Rovers had no voice 9 months ago, the BRFC Action Group was born, the people involved took a hell of a lot of critism, even worse came threats and the lowest possible low physical assaults towards them.

This campaign was never born out of personal gain, as some claim, nor were those involved scare-mongering as others claimed, the John Williams leaked email, coupled with the Paul Hunt leaked email and the sacking of John Newsham falls into line and backs up the 'claims' the Action Group made over the months.

The group has always been and remains open to all, we have tried on many occasions, notably the 'open floor meeting' at the Manxman in February to bring people together onto the same path to achieve a common goal, however people either refused to attend or showed no interest.

Some have claimed 'ulterior motives' some have openly claimed to 'not like those involved', however there are many groups whom have stalled or not been pro active over the last ten months that have now come forward as the situation as unfolded. It is my personal opinion that no group stood up when it needed to be counted, except for the Action Group - which is why i became so involved. We have waited 2 years for an official endorsed representation to get off the groun, yet it is still "in its infancy" despite the fact it was needed months ago,as the time was then, not now.

One group has been pro-active, brought our plight to the attention of the world and has secured meetings with the Premier League, the Sports Minister and is in dialogue with the Football League, the F.A and Uefa. On top of this community leaders, the towns famous people and other influential figures have come on board, whilst other groups have stood still and done nothing whilst our club has lost its premiership status.

If people want unity, then the group to stand alongside is the group that always has and is continuing to actively fight for the supporters. There is no need to unite together in my personal opinion, as it is up to each individual to decide whether they wish to support those standing still or choose to get behind those who are actively seeking answers for the supporters of Blackburn Rovers and the community of Blackburn.

Sayin people either refused to attend or were not interested in the meeting at the manxman bit unfair, not helpful. After all, it was a weekday. Only folk with computers new about. Then many many reasons why folk were UNABLE to attend. Being unable to attend, did not mean they either refused or were not interested.

[glen9mullan]

I do not like lines such as this, whilst the BRFC Action Group has arranged protests from a legal platform for the supporters this season, the group is not primarily a protest group. 95% of what the group does is not protest related, it is an FSF affiliated supporters group, we remain the most advanced and pro-active representation that Blackburn Rovers supporters have.

Being seen merely as a protest group is quite offensive considering the committee and the members it represents have made major inroads in gaining clarification for the supporters with both political and governing bodies.

Totally agree with this statement as to my knowledge the only other supporter group (UK Based) which has members is Ewood Blues,

So uniting the groups as some state is not needed IMO, cos most people are not in a group, and other groups can only be a group really by having members, as things stand BRST and FF are committee's without members?

A group only exist because of its members, and this is one of the main principles the Action Group stand by

[mark1875]

Sayin people either refused to attend or were not interested in the meeting at the manxman bit unfair, not helpful. After all, it was a weekday. Only folk with computers new about. Then many many reasons why folk were UNABLE to attend. Being unable to attend, did not mean they either refused or were not interested.

Yes it was a weekday, we have also had them on Saturdays and Sundays and faced the same problems, if only people who had computers knew about it considering we put close to a thousand posters out in advance, what more can we do? i am intrigued?

Many where unable to attend, equally many people CHOSE not to attend

[glen9mullan]

No, but my point was, the group was (I believe) responsible for organising the later protests and because of that there are some supporters groups and community that are unlikely to join (BDSA was a poor example, I've no idea what their stance was on the protests). I certainly wasn't claiming it was all you did and I think your attempt to change the perception of the group from it's rather rocky first few steps is commendable, but it's going to take some people a long time to forgive and forget those early days.However Sir Bill's proposal was a good work around for this problem, which is what this thread should be about.

I know exactly how you feel though, having BRFCS called a forum and the FF called a talking shop niggles me. Both have achieved so much over the last decade or so, but it's never what gets noticed.

Forgive and forget?

Whats there to forgive and forget? We made a stand because our club was going tits up, we tried our hardest to let supporters know what was going on, yet was accused of scaremongering, yet everything we said, has come out in the wash and confirmed all we said.

If someone can provide something tangible what these other committee's are doing to address the shambles which is going on at our club, then Im all ears.

[mark1875]

but it's going to take some people a long time to forgive and forget those early days.

For being correct? 10-15 thousand people where singing "Venkys out" en-masse during the match vs Norwich and people where furious vs Wigan?

We need to be forgiven for moving first? are you insinuating that by doing "nothing" we would have been better off?

Read the article in todays paper again, the "Blackburn united" group will reconvene when the Action Group has attended their meetings, if we don't attend the next one, what will they all talk about? because nobody else appears to be doing much, if people need forgiving it is those who are doing nothing.

I really resent this remark.

[Glenn]

Some have claimed 'ulterior motives' some have openly claimed to 'not like those involved', however there are many groups whom have stalled or not been pro active over the last ten months that have now come forward as the situation as unfolded. It is my personal opinion that no group stood up when it needed to be counted, except for the Action Group - which is why i became so involved. We have waited 2 years for an official endorsed representation to get off the groun, yet it is still "in its infancy" despite the fact it was needed months ago,as the time was then, not now.

Yes. Nobody is saying you're not doing more and achieving more than BRST (which is what I assume you're alluding to). I like you waited such a long time for it to get going, despite so badly wanting it to work too. It's no secret that I got so frustrated I tried to help by trying to get people involved that had set up BRISA (in the hope it would kickstart things) but the new personnel is a fairly recent move. Will it get off the ground, I have no idea. Will it lessen what the Action Group does? Of course not, I think they are likely to be targeting a very different type of fan to the Action Group (I don't know, other than pushing a few people to get involved, I'm not really involved myself).

Ultimately, whilst I know the Action Group genuinely represents a LOT of fans, there are a lot of fans who genuinely think SOME of the actions of the Action Group means they could never get behind them. I know it probably isn't truly representative, but I spend a lot more "face to face" time with Rovers fans who fall into that category, than those who don't (and we're talking around serious home & away fans here, not guys who may buy walk-ons 3 or 4 times a year). Don't they deserve a voice too? What if a serial Rovers Fan wanted you to represent his views, would you?

You guys are doing some great work now, but I don't think people should be limited to your way or no way.

[PAFELL]

Yes it was a weekday, we have also had them on Saturdays and Sundays and faced the same problems, if only people who had computers knew about it considering we put close to a thousand posters out in advance, what more can we do? i am intrigued?

Many where unable to attend, equally many people CHOSE not to attend

I don't think you realise, but rovers have a lot of supporters who do not live in the area. Those are not likely to attend such meetings due to cost and time involved. They are reliant on hearing outcomes from sites like this. I would not know about leaflets as I do not live up there. People have commitments etc so may chose not to attend for those reasons. Simple reasons such as being unable to get somebody to look after the kids etc etc. Nightshift workers - but many reasons. But it dosent mean they were not interested. Maybe you could not have done more at that time to let people know about the manxman meeting. But to critisize those who were not there and say they refused or were not interested, is plain wrong.

Even todays meeting - what was the attendance 600 - but not thousands. Again, it does not mean everybody else were not interested or refused to come.

[glen9mullan]

Bottom line is, I applaud any group which wishes to form, it takes a lot of dedication, a lot of hours and a pro-active approach.

Months ago we looked at ways of uniting the supporters, we hit a brick wall as some supporters would not accept things were bad and getting worse. Some supporters just was oblivious to it, Some supporters do not read papers or visit internet sites, or indeed accept leafelts and read posters.

Some people tried to discredit what we was trying to do, which was and still is, all about trying to get the truth and ensure supporters have a voice.

We are very happy to represent our members who can join the group for free in 18 countries, and with more branches opening daily. We are now an FSF International supporters group,

Someone posed a question today at the BRSIT meeting asking why his group had not been invited to see the Sports Minister, my question to him would of been,

Have you contacted him? Have you spent the last 9 months going from meeting to meeting up and down the country to secure such a meeting? If he had then maybe he wouldof been invited by the sports minister.

We do not speak for ALL supporters, we only represent our members who elected us, and anyone else who wishes the group to represent them.

We have gone down a long lonely road, with lots of opposition, but just the fact of the people who have publically backed us, and our patrons of the group, shows we must of done a lot more right than wrong.

Having Sir Bill Taylor in the Action Group is fantastic, and his idea of groups meeting up once in a while to discuss each others progress is a great idea, I think the meeting was left at, When the Action Group have been to these meetings everyone will get back together?

[PAFELL]

Forgive and forget?

Whats there to forgive and forget? We made a stand because our club was going tits up, we tried our hardest to let supporters know what was going on, yet was accused of scaremongering, yet everything we said, has come out in the wash and confirmed all we said.

If someone can provide something tangible what these other committee's are doing to address the shambles which is going on at our club, then Im all ears.

Many a time folk who did not get involved in protests etc were told they are not true supporters, pro venkys, pro kean. Threats. Much abuse given because they did not agree with some of the actions.

[Glenn]

C'mon guys, I'm trying to throw you a bone here and not rake up old coals. By your own admittion you made some terrible PR gaffs in those early days that upset a lot of people. People you'll struggle to ever win over. I genuinely want what you're doing to work, so there is no sense going into specifics.

You've moved on, you've learnt from your mistakes, the Action Group is growing and doing great things, lets leave it at that.

[glen9mullan]

I don't think you realise, but rovers have a lot of supporters who do not live in the area. Those are not likely to attend such meetings due to cost and time involved. They are reliant on hearing outcomes from sites like this. I would not know about leaflets as I do not live up there. People have commitments etc so may chose not to attend for those reasons. Simple reasons such as being unable to get somebody to look after the kids etc etc. Nightshift workers - but many reasons. But it dosent mean they were not interested. Maybe you could not have done more at that time to let people know about the manxman meeting. But to critisize those who were not there and say they refused or were not interested, is plain wrong.

Even todays meeting - what was the attendance 600 - but not thousands. Again, it does not mean everybody else were not interested or refused to come.

With no financial backing and heavily reliant on us all doing extra hours at work to fund the group, and kind donations, we have done our best on producing leaflets, posters, a fully functional website.

The cost of going to Doncaster, but in particular London as meetings will go over a couple of days, is going to be vast and well over a £1000, i know personally due to time off work I must take its going to cost me £300 in lost revenue just to attend these meetings. Then we have to pay to go. We have had one or two donations from kind supporters, but these have been infrequent