[Archived] Rovers Supporters Groups and Communities (was Blackburn United)

[PAFELL]

Over a grand? Meetings? Expenses? Sounds like you're having a ball my friend. London...

What is it you're actually achieving....I mean, there's no tangibles....the owners won't talk....you're just playing businessman.

I may of had my issues with certain groups - whatever their name is. But I would not go as far as you have in your post. But like others, you are entitled to your opinion. These people have attended meetings, which has to to be respected. In the early days, many mistakes were made by most groups, but who hasn't - but some have learnt from them, which again has to be respected.

I have lost count the times I have travelled up from the south to the north. There are no cheap options. Train can cost a lot - sometimes it has been cheaper to fly from manchester to gatwick than the train. Dependant on how far ahead you book. Coach is the cheapest option of the public transport. Hire of a mini bus could be even cheaper for a group. There are cheapish places to stay in London, but at this time of year, not many. Sometimes better to stay outside london and travel in. Either way, there are costs.

[PAFELL]

Just in case there are folk who don't know what a "mailing list" is - it's simply a load of e-mail addresses which allows one click to send to everyone - apologies but I'm trying to help by being very clear.

I would like to help clear this up. I was a member of this mailing list - it was nothing other than a bunch of people who had different snippets of information and chose to share it with each other - to an extent I think we all had a personal "need" to talk and were very unsure about how to handle things we knew. This was it nothing more or less, we just exchanged information by e-mail. These people came together and exchanged the first e-mails on 25th January 2011, I still have them all. The name really came about because when one creates a Yahoo mailing list it needs a name to work!! I don't think we ever considered ourselves a "group."

If anyone wishes to consider me as an extremist, that's OK, but I think my history here and amongst the people I know who would say the opposite. I don't want to reveal the names of others on the list but I doubt any would have a problem with identifying themselves. None are extremists.

I don't know what PAFELL was trying to say Glen but I think you need to accept many, many people have shortened your group's name to BRAG and I suspect it has stuck. Quite how that happened I'm not sure but for me it came from stuff I read here and on the original Facebook page and website. Getting the new name, BRFC Action Group, to stick will be tough.

I think it is wrong to describe the mailing list as "secret" - its members had information which at the time was not common knowledge, which we wanted to discuss but couldn't put in the public domain. Most of this information, in fact without checking I think all, is now in the public domain. It was simply not appropriate to share the information at that time. I would guess, stress guess, you've discovered most of the information for yourself and quite possibly from similar sources. The mailing list hasn't been used recently other than when I and another wanted to communicate with all of those people about BRST - Blackburn Rovers Supporters Trust - in an attempt to help move it forward.

I think this is true and is the case for many, many fans. I would still refer to BRFC Action Group because it seems to have grown out of a combination of "Blackburn Rovers" and "Action Group" the second beinh how I feel Glen and his colleagues described themselves on many occassions when facilitating the protests and out of which has grown BRFC Action Group.

Stuart - I hope my comment helps

I think this has a lot of relevance and I'd acknowldege the huge strides which have been made. You shouldn't be offended though as most groups, not only football related ones, take a long. long time to shake off the image created in the early stages. First impressions and all that. For me BRFC Action Group has grown out of the original protest group which Glen, and I think yourself, facilitated (I use this word as it is how Glen described it on several occassions and I'm trying to avoid putting words in anyone's mouth). In a couple of PMs to me Glen used the initials BRAG several months ago..

Could you then explain why you made posts on this message board which derided me and refered to me in a way I associate more with the playground than a discussion board? I don't think I have ever derided anyone on here in the manner you chose to use with me. I have made no criticism and raised no questions in relation to BRFC Action Group for months, nor will I do so, but when I read your words above I'm disturbed by them.

One last word in the interest of being completely open; I was one of those who looked to help the Blackburn Rovers Supporters Trust to move forward. I put some time in for a short period but quickly realised my personal situation in relation to work and being unable to drive till July meant I could not make a real committment. I'm delighted others have been able to step forward and I hope to make a contribution in the future but am unsure what that will be. I've never mentioned it before simply because at the time Blackburn Rovers Supporters Trust had a low profile and was not ready to be more public. I was invited, I did not put myself forward.

Last night was the first I had heard that there was an extremist group called brag. But like others, when I referred to brag, it was in reference to blackburn rovers action group. The term came common - many on here got replies to posts telling us to leave brag alone etc etc. It was a name given and a name that stuck and will take awhile for that to change. Even the media often referred to Glen as the leader of a protest group called brag. I took exception to being accused of slander, which it certainly wasn't. If it was, then many on here stand accused of the same.

But it has been cleared up. We learnt there is or was an extremist group called BRAG. A name that was tagged on to the blackburn rovers action group, by themselves and others. But have now changed there name.

[Glenn]

Philip makes a very fair point. I'm not going to close or hide this thread, but I am going to create an alternatie one that will hopefully bubble up and go in a more positive one as I don't think this paints the best picture of what Sir Bill is trying to achieve.

[Stuart]

It will bubble up if it's pinned.

Glen it's a shame you feel the need to try to engineer the thread in a positive way only (at this stage) as I actually think this thread has been very cathartic so far. Unless people can get everything on the table, disagree, argue and put perceptions right, they have NO chance of mending bridges and moving forward together. It's like trying to lock the elephant out of the room...

IMHO.

Philip makes a very fair point.

No he doesn't. By his own admission he only scanned the thread.

Try reading it properly Philip. It's been very enlightening.

[Ozz]

Back onto Blackburn United I was hoping the other groups in attendance would post on here their progress and plans, as this was the point of the meeting

I would hope Ozz, Steb, John (if he uses this forum) will share their views on here regarding the meeting, in order to bring the thread back on topic, as i'm sure they will agree the formation of a new group was certainly not what was agreed.

I have my reasons for believing in one group of people as i am sure everyone does, however i feel it's important to publicise what went on at the Golf Club on Thursday as transparency is very important to me personally.

I attended as a representative of the Supporters Trust group, in which I have been involved in for two weeks. For what it's worth, the Trust in my opinion would have happened regardless of the situation Rovers are in-it's about football club being of a benefit to the community. Click on the link below for a detailed explanation of what the Trust is about and how Supporters Direct work with us.

Supporters Direct FAQs

My two reasons for going to the golf club last Thursday were firstly to introduce myself and give some background information on who I am, and where I saw the Trust going in the short, medium and long term future with Rovers. Secondly I wanted to meet with the other fans who have done some fantastic work already in trying to the resolve the situation at Rovers right now and see how we can work together in the next crucial three months over the summer before the start of next season.

What The BRFC Action Group are doing and have done is great-Something had to be done and they all stood up and did something, My involvement is about the medium and long term issues-Sooner or later the current owners and their ilk will be gone from our club. We need to put something in place to make sure we never get into this situation again-and that is my motivation. To ensure that Blackburn Rovers Football Club exists-and it works with its fans and the community at large for the benefit of all concerned.

[Paul]

Last night was the first I had heard that there was an extremist group called brag.

PAFELL I think you're getting confused. There was a mailing list which was called BRAG-list, it was just a group name for a set of e-mail addresses. It was based on Blackburn Rovers Action Group, just a little name we thought up to describe ourselves, it was NEVER extreme, it was never public, the people never met as a group though we all know each other, it never had an involvement in anything other than a bunch of people talking and sharing information. Call it an internet pub conversation, we all live a distance apart and e-mail was the easy way to chat. It was just chat, nothing else.

[Glenn]

I already pinned in ... for now ... until this one drops.

It's not something I'd normally do. But this is possibly one chance to make this work and I didn't want BRFCS to be seen as the reason it blew itself apart before it started (and Yes, I know it's stupid that people blame what is said on the site itself, but it happens a lot). The thread was cathartic (and it's the first time I'm have meaningful dialogue with Glen and Mark after we had a bit of a falling out a few months ago) but it was also kinda embarrassing. We're grown ups, we can work together and all want broadly the same thing but even a discussion about doing so degenerated into bickering and I want to apologise for my part in that.

We've always said BRFCS should be a platform for ALL voices (as long as they don't pose a significant threat to the long term sustainability of the site) and we've been forced to go to some extraordinary lengths to protect that over the last season. We have no agenda, we treat everyone openly, regradless of their stance. So I don't feel it's right that I get involved in bickering with one of the more prominent ones as it feels it's eroding that neutrality a bit. We are by far the biggest Rovers supporters community, but I always avoid calling us a group as that implies people are here to be represented and that's NOT our job (we had BRISA for that back in the day), so it's silly us being at odds with people who DO want to represent.

Anyway, I'm not late for a podcast recording (and thats the kinda stuff BRFCS should be doing).

[Glenn]

It will bubble up if it's pinned.

Glen it's a shame you feel the need to try to engineer the thread in a positive way only (at this stage) as I actually think this thread has been very cathartic so far. Unless people can get everything on the table, disagree, argue and put perceptions right, they have NO chance of mending bridges and moving forward together. It's like trying to lock the elephant out of the room...

IMHO.

No he doesn't. By his own admission he only scanned the thread.

Try reading it properly Philip. It's been very enlightening.

I already pinned in ... for now ... until this one drops.

It's not something I'd normally do. But this is possibly one chance to make this work and I didn't want BRFCS to be seen as the reason it blew itself apart before it started (and Yes, I know it's stupid that people blame what is said on the site itself, but it happens a lot). The thread was cathartic (and it's the first time I'm have meaningful dialogue with Glen and Mark after we had a bit of a falling out a few months ago) but it was also kinda embarrassing. We're grown ups, we can work together and all want broadly the same thing but even a discussion about doing so degenerated into bickering and I want to apologise for my part in that.

We've always said BRFCS should be a platform for ALL voices (as long as they don't pose a significant threat to the long term sustainability of the site) and we've been forced to go to some extraordinary lengths to protect that over the last season. We have no agenda, we treat everyone openly, regradless of their stance. So I don't feel it's right that I get involved in bickering with one of the more prominent ones as it feels it's eroding that neutrality a bit. We are by far the biggest Rovers supporters community, but I always avoid calling us a group as that implies people are here to be represented and that's NOT our job (we had BRISA for that back in the day), so it's silly us being at odds with people who DO want to represent.

Anyway, I'm not late for a podcast recording (and thats the kinda stuff BRFCS should be doing).

[Mattyblue]

Is glen saying BRAG was not the name we all referred to the Action Group by?!

[Stuart]

He's saying that BRAG and BRFC Action Group are separate entities. He's only ever been involved with the latter.

[K-Hod]

More bureaucracy.

So who's actually representing the fans here? All I see are different groups with different agendas.

It shouldn't take three separate organizations to represent the fanbase. If they weren't full of their own self-importance they'd realize that.

Totally agree. We all hate Kean and Venky's, want them out, support Rovers- why should it be such a chore to work together?

[PAFELL]

PAFELL I think you're getting confused. There was a mailing list which was called BRAG-list, it was just a group name for a set of e-mail addresses. It was based on Blackburn Rovers Action Group, just a little name we thought up to describe ourselves, it was NEVER extreme, it was never public, the people never met as a group though we all know each other, it never had an involvement in anything other than a bunch of people talking and sharing information. Call it an internet pub conversation, we all live a distance apart and e-mail was the easy way to chat. It was just chat, nothing else.

Just gone back and read Glenn's post about the mailing list. ( I got side tracked by Glen mullen calling them extremist, when they were NOT, then accussing me of slander, which again was false) So there was once a group of people who used to email each other called brag. Then when the protests started and started calling themsleves blackburn rovers action group - which people, whereever, shortened to BRAG. But the blackburn rovers action group, did not know about the mailing list of the same name. Just acciedent, coincedence that the same name was used.

Whenever I had used the word brag on here, it has always been in relation to the protests / organisers of the same etc - this was commonly used by others on here. But both you and Glenn have cleared up the situation. Though how anybody can call a mailing list and extremist group, is beyond me. Anyway the name thing has been cleared up and the use of it.

Anyway, getting back onto Sir Bill Taylors suggestion. I am presuming that he is wanting all the groups to remain seperate, but to come together under one group / banner / club. So if any public statement is put out by 'blackburn united', they can say this is supporteed by this and that group etc.

I have had this discussion before with others on here. I recall years ago when I lived in the north. There used to be various blackburn rovers supporters clubs throughout the area. They would each met in the various pubs, arrange for away travel etc. I think this was during the time when there used to be lots of violence and trouble at football matches. The idea of the supporters clubs, was to help stamp that stuff out. I think Great Harwood had a group, as did accrington and other areas. But although seperate, they came under one banner. This is what I understand Sir Bill Taylor is trying to do.

I believe a group of rovers supporters in Norway have got together and formed a supporters club, there has been one for years in Singapore and London. I looked into the possiblity of getting a sussex one together, as there are a few on here from that area. Each individual may have their own opinions, but all had the common goal of supporting Rovers and its supporters. But for convienience sake met up in their local area, kept in contact with each other etc. This I suggest is what Sir Bill Taylor is trying to do.

happy to be corrected if this is wrong.

[Mattyblue]

But they aren't though, are they? BRAG is just an acronym.

Bizarre.

[Stuart]

But they aren't though, are they? BRAG is just an acronym.

Bizarre.

It's not just the acronym but what the acronym represents. Ask the World Wildlife Fund.

[Tom]

Is glen saying BRAG was not the name we all referred to the Action Group by?!

Yes although it was commonly known as BRAG I think glen and mark would rather move away from that after finding out about another previous BRAG

I imagine there's a lot of people with barbecue hangovers confused by this thread right now

On topic I think the concept is sound and hope it can work, these days I'm quite neutral in it all as an ex fans forum member who attended the last few protests I will back anyone trying to improve the situation.

The action group guys (brag is easier to type) are putting a hell of a lot of effort in that is plain to see

[PAFELL]

Is glen saying BRAG was not the name we all referred to the Action Group by?!

[Stuart]

Yes although it was commonly known as BRAG I think glen and mark would rather move away from that after finding out about another previous BRAG

I imagine there's a lot of people with barbecue hangovers confused by this thread right now

On topic I think the concept is sound and hope it can work, these days I'm quite neutral in it all as an ex fans forum member who attended the last few protests I will back anyone trying to improve the situation.

The action group guys (brag is easier to type) are putting a hell of a lot of effort in that is plain to see

How about a fund raising idea for the the future - an eBay shop called Blackburn Rovers Auction Group.

Ironically there is already one acronym we all already belong to - and they don't seem to want any of us... BRFC.

[BangkokRover]

Will tell you when we get back, but instead of dissing people for trying can you please tell me what you are doing?

The reality is even if it achieves nothing it does not matter, people are talking about it, it's in the press and meeting the Premier League is a tremendous achievement. WELL DONE all the people who are trying to get Rovers out of Venkeys hands. Lots of different people trying lots of different things and hopefully one will come off.

Instead of people nit picking about a name, why are they not saying what can I do to help?

Then again thats not really the way for most of the people here on BRFCS

Cheers

BKR

[Paul Mellelieu]

The emergence of a range of groups and leaders is inevitable in the situation supporters find themselves in. Local civic leaders may appear to be late to come out against the regime compared to the fans' self organising protest. The LT, it could be argued, was too slow in raising the alarm bells, bit they are also dong a great job now. BRIST is another approach, with the two Ians also attempting to position themselves as potential co-owners of the club.

I can understand the frustrations of all the groups and individuals who've been involved in the Rovers' family for many years when these new groups emerge and speak for supporters

It's just the way things are and we should welcome it.

However we do need an initiative like the 'United' idea to get fans groups together on the basis of shared aims and linked to civic leaders who can give a movement legitimacy and reach.