[Archived] euro12 thread

[Audax]

Can't believe how Spain are being written off. Germany won't cut through their defence as easily as Holland or Portugal, and they'll see far less of the ball.

Whilst I fancy the Germans you can't count Spain out, they're still the best team, especially if Del Bosque gives Llorente a proper chance.

Right, one writes off Spain at their own peril. However, I do think this is the way the Euro was in '08, it seemed Spain was the team of destiny. Now, it seems Germany is the team of destiny and seemingly deserve it. On the other hand, Spain are the Champs and sometimes people just want to see the Champs knocked out, nobody has done the Euro-World and then be Champs of the Euro again, I don't think we will see that this time.

Like everyone says, the Euro I like better, the matches, Italy Spain, Germany Portugal, Germany Netherlands, Poland Russia, England France, these are all classic or close to classic matchups in only the span of a not yet a week. I like the atmosphere at the Euro better. In '06, France Spain played but just for me, not the same as the Euro atmosphere.... Maybe the World Cup is too big and over-hyped.

But I do like the idea that if you are tied with a team on points in the group and you beat them straight up, perhaps you do deserve to go through.

[Audax]

The Dutch must improve a lot to beat Portugal by two. The point was they still have a chance in their own hands (or would the Germans prefer the Danes qualify and not win) to qualify. They actually could be a mentaly strong side if qualify like that.

If it was a situation in group A where Czech Republic and Poland could draw and both advance, I'll bet they'd do that but Poland has to win to advance, so that will be a good game.

Bit of a rant here and not really directed at you Rover of Finland, sort of random thoughts, I once heard someone say the Spain player Sendos I believe was his name headhunted Michael Ballack and Ballack got bloody, I don't know about that, Robben got bloodied today but he's basically bald and has short cropped hair it seems.

But in the final of the last World Cup, of course, everyone remembers De Jong's kung fu kick, pretty bad. But this Dutch team has seemed to cool off from playing so well only a year or so ago.

Here is a description of the World Cup Portugal Netherlands game of 2006: Excerpt:

Portugal vs. Netherlands (Second round)Main article: Battle of Nuremberg

Referee Valentin Ivanov set a new record for the number of red cards issued in a World Cup match with four, and tied the record for yellow cards with 16.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_FIFA_World_Cup_controversies#Portugal_vs._Netherlands_.28Second_round.29

and http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/4991538.stm

Battle of Nuremberg, I wasn't aware it was called that, it was a physical game, I've rewatched it a number of times, one would think that maybe there was an attempt to hurt Ronaldo. It's tight. But I do know, these teams definitely have a history.

The match ended 1–0 to Portugal, with Maniche scoring in the 23rd minute. Before the goal, Mark van Bommel had been booked and in the eighth minute, Dutch defender Khalid Boulahrouz was booked for a foul which injured Cristiano Ronaldo and would eventually force the substitution of Portugal's star winger before half time. Ronaldo left in tears, and proceeded to describe Boulahrouz's tackle as "clearly an intentional foul to get me injured."[4] In the meantime, Maniche had been booked for a foul on Van Bommel after 19 minutes. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nuremberg_(association_football)

One could say that Portuguese team with Figo, Deco, Maniche and others was really a lot better than this one today. I don't know, the World Cup can get a bit farcical and this is another example. I didn't see all of the Germany Netherlands game today but it appeared reasonably sporting, some fouling for certain.

Looks like Portugal defeated Netherlands in the 2004 Euro as well, so you'd think Netherlands would try to avert that trend. http://www.eloratings.net/Netherlands.htm Probably sending them out of that tourney, course, Portugal hosted that.

[RibbleValleyRover]

[Amo]

There's something attractive about Joachim Low (no homo).

[Tom]

Pirlo is Godlike

[T4E]

There's something attractive about Joachim Low (no homo).

Got told I look like him today. Feel better about it now, cheers Toppers

[Stuart]

Got told I look like him today. Feel better about it now, cheers Toppers

Nah, more like Tom Conti

Nowadays...

[Audax]

wow...these teams from the old Yugoslavia teams can be tough, time ticking down...Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, Macedonia, Slovenia, there it is...

Spain vs. Ireland later,

Final group B games, Italy vs. Ireland, Croatia vs. Spain,

Croatia 4 pts.

Italy 2 pts.

Spain 1 pt.

ROI No points

A lot could happen.

[Harrier7]

Andrews has done 3 good points in the first 2 minutes.

[DE.]

Ireland really shouldn't be there - worst team in the tournament by some margin. It's a bit embarrassing to watch them try and compete with proper teams.

[Tom]

Andrews has done 3 good points in the first 2 minutes.

Best Ireland player by far that might not be saying much but he probably would have been one of our best next season the way we are going

[davulsukur]

Even the refs don't like Keef.

[Tom]

Torres bags his second of the game

Class finish after he looked like he took too long

[DE.]

Ireland deserve to be there on merit. They also went 14 games unbeaten in the run up to the Euros. They probably deserve to be there more than most teams, regardless of the gulf in class that's been shown so far.

Look at their team ffs, who did they play in those 14 matches?

[DE.]

Always had rowdy fans, the Irish.

They just have such an incredible lack of quality - they're even eclipsed by Poland. I always remember them as being plucky underdogs with a bit of genuine talent... a bit surprised to see them so devoid of any threat.

Admittedly, it was a very harsh group for them to be in. Had they been in with Greece they may have managed a point at least.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Just defending th'underdog.

Loving the singing going on right now. Respect due.

Lot of respect to the Ireland players - yes totally outplayed - but they continued to chase all the way to the end (if Rovers players had put in half the effort we may not have been relegated).

[Ripleys love child]

I think Ireland are possibly the worst team ever to grace the euros, brilliant fans mind.

[Amo]

I hated Roy Keane as a player but love him as a pundit.

[dr_awol]

atm i fail to see why we shouldn't just give Spain and Germany a bye to the final if the euros where a league they would be 20 points ahead of everyone else.

[DE.]

I hated Roy Keane as a player but love him as a pundit.

He was furious with Andrews rightly so as well, he's spot on really. The players and fans both have a loser's mentality, it isn't something to be proud of.

[The Dart]

Roy is abroad on ITV because we couldn't be listening to him. :lol:

[RoyRover]

Always had rowdy fans, the Irish.

They just have such an incredible lack of quality - they're even eclipsed by Poland. I always remember them as being plucky underdogs with a bit of genuine talent... a bit surprised to see them so devoid of any threat.

Admittedly, it was a very harsh group for them to be in. Had they been in with Greece they may have managed a point at least.

Totally agree with you. It wasn't such much humbling as predictable. The gulf in glass between Ireland and most of the other teams in the competition is huge. The group we were drawn in hasn't help. As you say if we had been in with Greece or Ukraine, we may have got a couple of points against some of the weaker sides in the tournament.

It's an achievement that we are there at all to be honest. Ireland is a tiny country, with an ever twindling population, as tens of thousands of people migrate each year to find work and a chance in life. Then within that small population, football is behind gaelic football, rugby and hurling in popularity. Trappatoni has done well to get a group of players together, find a system that suited their limited abilities and got them to a major tournament. We were still scraping past the likes of Armenia and Macedonia with those players, so we had no chance against class out fits like Croatia and Spain.

We really are lacking in quality. The one good thing that we had going for us was that we were good at the back and hard to break down. However the solidity has gone out the window at these Euros and as deserving as Croatia and Spain have been of their comprehensive wins, EVERY goal has been avoidable and come down to poor defending and goal keeping. You compare this team to ones of the past. Yeah we had our share of limited players, who wouldn't get on most other national sides, but we also had the likes of Roy Keane, Shay Given, Robbie Keane, Damien Duff (the latter three all in their prime), Steve Staunton, Liam Brady, Mark Lawrenson, Paul McGrath, David O'Leary, Ray Haughton and Johnny Giles. Some of these were world class players. We just don't have that standard of player in the squad to make a difference. When you think that Glenn Whelan, Keith Andrews, Paul Green, and Sean St Ledger are supposed to stop Xavi, Iniesta, David Silva and Fernando Torres, it's pathetic really.

Sadly, I think that it's a tournament too late for many Irish players. Robbie Keane, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, John O'Shea and Shay Given are reaching the end of their careers. The chance was against France in the World Cup playoffs and we blew it. People will point to hand balls, but in truth we were to blame. We had more than enough chances to win that game and didn't take them. Two years on, these key players can no longer play to level needed to even contain the best teams in the world. It's sad fact but it's the truth. We have a couple of promising young players in James McClean, Seamus Coleman and Shane Long and they need to be the basis of our World Cup qualifying team. Most Ireland fans are fully aware of the current teams lack of quality and are accepting of it. We are happy to have qualified, sad that we've been stuffed and are prepared for a barren few years ahead of us.

[Rovermatt]

Ireland really shouldn't be there - worst team in the tournament by some margin. It's a bit embarrassing to watch them try and compete with proper teams.

Coming from someone who is presumably an England fan.

In any case, they were never going to light up the tournament in an attacking sense but the defensive stability that saw them through qualifying has abandoned them. They were all over the shop tonight and deserved a good thrashing. The goals given up in this game and the last have been cheap to say the least. The Croatia tie was the real chance to win points. Needing a result against Spain is fairly hopeless.

A horrible draw hasn't helped, nor has Trapattoni's team selection. He fielded Simon Cox tonight instead of Kevin Doyle or Shane Long (I appreciate that he had Cox dropping back but he's a hugely limited player), has largely ignored the electric James McClean and persisted with both Glen Whelan and the unattached Keith Andrews who, for all his effort and loyalty, is less capable than other available players. He brought on Paul Green (also without a club) while Seamus Coleman sits at home.

[Rovermatt]

He was furious with Andrews rightly so as well, he's spot on really. The players and fans both have a loser's mentality, it isn't something to be proud of.

Keane's been banging this drum ever since he abandoned the team in Japan. One minute he's claiming that the Irish possess 'a loser's mentality' and the next he's acknowledging the lack of quality. One would seem to cancel out the other.

[Mike E]

Keane's been banging this drum ever since he abandoned the team in Japan. One minute he's claiming that the Irish possess 'a loser's mentality' and the next he's acknowledging the lack of quality. One would seem to cancel out the other.

Just an elaborate form of the a terrace chant:

We're ######! And we know we are, we're ######!