[Archived] euro12 thread

[Stuart]

, flukey finish (I believe he was trying to control the ball)

Oh wait, you're serious.

[Audax]

Give England credit for where it is due, Welbeck's goal was lovely to watch, so was Walcott's. One can find plenty of fault with about any team, slim chances Netherlands is going to advance, Spain use to NOT do that well in these tournaments until 2008, I could go on, point being most of these countries you can find problems with. Sweden was facing elimination last night and I'd give 'em credit for putting up a struggle. England weren't there in '08 and a lot of fans just relaxed, sat back and enjoyed the tournament. There is no reason not to just do the same, England there or not. I'm going to think some of the players do act spoiled or have other unflattering traits, win or not and a lot of the media has been a big pill too. People get too wrapped up in it or are too critical.

[LDRover]

Yeah, listen, if he says he meant it then fair play to him.

However, to me there was no pronounced 'backheeling' of the ball it just looked like he was slightly behind the cross and in trying to adjust it caught his heel and went in. All in my opinion of course, like I said, only he knows if it was intentional.

I mean there are still those that think Bergkamp's sublime finish up at Newcastle when he turned and finished in one movement was a fluke. Not that I'm one of them mind you.

[greco]

There is a general acceptance that England are an average international team on a level with the likes of Denmark and Croatia and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

I disagree entirely, its actually pitifull. Here in denmark the population is roughly 5.7 million, thats 1/3 of of the population in london. Not only that, England have great traditions within football, a huge league and a football infrastrucutre that matches anyone anywhere.

Im baffled that you havent got the brains, balls and ability to copy the nations, which have been succesfull in international competitions in recent tiems and here im referring to spain, france, germany or holland.

If you take a look at the nations you should be comparing yourself to, population wise, history and football infrastructure, it really shouldnt be denmark nor croatia, but the likes of argentina, brazil, italy, spain, france, and germany. When yo do compare England with the aforemrentioned "big" countries, you really stand out as being the worst.

Thats also the reason why, that the english are being judged harder.

[Majiball]

Well done to the southerners (that begrudging comment was only made due to the arise of the Majiball Thread).

Wasn't surprised it took Walcotts introduction to fire you into life. If your playing counter you need pace on both flanks, bye bye Milner.

Ukraine will not be easy.

[Audax]

I disagree entirely, its actually pitifull. Here in denmark the population is roughly 5.7 million, thats 1/3 of of the population in london. Not only that, England have great traditions within football, a huge league and a football infrastrucutre that matches anyone anywhere.

Im baffled that you havent got the brains, balls and ability to copy the nations, which have been succesfull in international competitions in recent tiems and here im referring to spain, france, germany or holland.

If you take a look at the nations you should be comparing yourself to, population wise, history and football infrastructure, it really shouldnt be denmark nor croatia, but the likes of argentina, brazil, italy, spain, france, and germany. When yo do compare England with the aforemrentioned "big" countries, you really stand out as being the worst.

Thats also the reason why, that the english are being judged harder.

People should cool down, I don't snipe at other teams, for example, I understand Rooney is of an Irish background.... so I don't criticise Ireland.

But look at your statement here, Argentina, World Cup semifinals? Last time, 1990, same as England, Arg. over England in '98, lost to England in '02.

Spain?? They are the country that has been called "perennial underachievers" for so long, "same old Spain" as the Sun said in '06 but I thought they'd win in '08 to people who said they'd do the same thing again.

France, I like "Les Bleus" but to be involved in how they went to South Africa by the hand ball assisted goal by Henry and then being practically the worse team except for North Korea at the 2010 World cup is a shame I'm glad England are not involved in. Also, I've got some questions respectfully about what made Zidane go, see questions now that are coming out about what made West Germany go.

Italy, won the World Cup in '06 but I'm sorry, there league again and again is shown to be very corrupt, match-fixing scandals and the way they've won, I can't buy that either.

Netherlands have gone on a good run, still, Portugal eliminated England and Netherlands both in Euro '04 and World Cup '06 (see http://www.eloratings.net/Portugal.htm if I have that right). Netherlands style too made a big change from "total football".

Germany is the one country always in the mix. Brazil is always a beast, now they have Neymar but that said, Uruguay has now become the top South American power as far as finishing better at South Africa, 4th place and I believe winning the last Copa America, think Uruguay won that, so right now, Argentina and Brazil aren't even the top powers in South America. I totally respect the Germans but their history is not all that clean and shiny either. Nothing personal against them.

So, I don't criticise other countries but it's evident these other countries have had big problems too.

[Majiball]

The biggest failing in England is that they always look to copy other countries. england is not spain or germany or france and never will be. They should extract the best parts and adpat it into the english way of playing.

[ABBEY]

scotland have extracted Burnley.

[Majiball]

That's a bit below the belt ABB's.

[Gav]

scotland have extracted Burnley.

They're not even that good

[Amo]

That's a bit below the belt ABB's.

Abbey's never seen below his belt.

[thenodrog]

Young was the worst player for us by far.. at fault for one of Swedens goals (although why he would of been marking Olaf I do not know), looked off the pace, lost and gave the ball away so much it was daft.

Welbeck had a single moment in the game and personally bar a couple of nice moments (last gasp tackles mostly) Glenn J was awful for most of the match, Parker looked half dead in the second half, Milner had a couple of good moments but was generally poor (and looked tired), Carrol for me lacked awareness of those around him and his passing awful.. but hey satisfied with the result.

Young appears to want too much time and too many touches on the ball which the Swedes certainly were never going to give him.

I thought that too about Johnson BUT in fairness he made at least 3 superb last ditch tackles.

I quite liked Carroll's performance. Sweden's defence would have bullied Wellbeck or Defoe out of the game. Carroll proved more than a match physically for them.

[roverandout]

whoever said drop ashley cole from the team hes only the best left back in the world, doh!!!

[Clitherover]

The sentiment of at least we're not English is universal.

Why support an English football team then?, bizzare.

[Rovermatt]

What a stupid point.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Thinking you have a chance is fine. Thinking you've a God given right to be successful and turning in to a load of whiny bitches when it goes wrong, is not.

Nail on the head. Although admittedly this tournament has been more subdued. More from the general public than the media. There is still too much downplaying of other nations though. As Britain is more isolated from mainland Europe, the media etc don't watch as much, if any, European football and I think this equates to not giving certain teams or players players enough recognition. For example, Gary Neville saying Napoli were no better than an average premier league team haha but there have been many examples from this tournament.

And it's not just the media that normally has the great expectation, fans are equally culpable. Well almost equally. Of course England have a chance to win anything, it's football, but they normally argue that they will/should because of all the good players they have in a team, regardless of whether these England players usually perform in these tournaments and ignoring the 6/8 other top international teams who are arguably better.

I do think Welbeck meant that goal but his touch is generally pretty bad. Have no idea why Sturridge isn't there. Don't know about Carroll.....he is definitely one of the best headers of the ball in the tournament but I don't think he offers much else (besides his hold up play) and feel he should only be brought on for the last 20 mins or so if you're losing.

Commentary on England games has been barely watchable as there is a fine line between natural bias and sheer ridiculousness.

- "Something that the Scots and Irish can't ever say is that they have the (often tragic) adventure we do at these tourneys and that we genuinely do have the potential there to win the thing, however remote it might or might not be.

But that's like saying Liverpool or Spurs have a better chance of winning the Premier League than Wigan. Still not actually that realistic of a chance themselves.

- "So let them complain, whine and bitch about us.

We are England are there are few prouder."

Don't know about that one. How many English people know when St Georges Day is? A lot less than other countries I imagine. England might get relatively good support (not as good as Irish or Scottish perhaps) in games but quite a few other countries are more patriotic and nationalist. Their players definitely are as a good few England players in recent times care more about their clubs than their country.

The club vs country debate doesn't even exist in a lot of countries. An example of what I mean is after Jamie Carragher missed a penalty against Portugal in the 2006 World Cup, he got sent a text message offering commiserations in which he replied that it was ok as it was not like he missed one for Liverpool. That is absolutely shocking.

[RoyRover]

Why support an English football team then?, bizzare.

Like many children, when I started supporting football, I looked for a team in the nearest big league, which was the Premiership. If I had lived in Germany, France, Spain, Italy or Holland, I would have supported a team in the Bundesliga, Ligue 1, La Liga or the Eredivise.

There is still too much downplaying of other nations though. As Britain is more isolated from mainland Europe, the media etc don't watch as much, if any, European football and I think this equates to not giving certain teams or players players enough recognition. For example, Gary Neville saying Napoli were no better than an average premier league team haha but there have been many examples from this tournament.

- "Something that the Scots and Irish can't ever say is that they have the (often tragic) adventure we do at these tourneys and that we genuinely do have the potential there to win the thing, however remote it might or might not be.

But that's like saying Liverpool or Spurs have a better chance of winning the Premier League than Wigan. Still not actually that realistic of a chance themselves.

- "So let them complain, whine and bitch about us.

We are England are there are few prouder."

This is one of the things that drives me mad. The sheer lack of respect and knowledge afforded to players from other nations by commentators and pundits a like is just staggering. There is almost of sense of shock and surprise when players, who don't live in the spotlight like the ones who play in the Premiership do, show what good footballers they are and are indeed better than some of the more celebrated names.

I don't get the second comment either. Yeah England have more of a chance than Ireland or Scotland. But they are still never good enough so what difference does it make. Everyone is proud of where they come from. Being English doesn't mean that you are any more or less proud of your nationality.

In terms of England so far, they have done well. They did what they had to do to get a result against France. No one cared when Chelsea shut up shop against Barcelona or Bayern Munich. This was no different and it worked, so so what. Last night they looked a bit ropey at times but won a game that could have gone either way. They have a good chance of qualifying now, which will be a success.

[Mattyblue]

Why don't you non Englishman try talking to you know the actual general public, and not listen to those that revel in their ignorance on the BBC and in the papers.

Now maybe it's because most of us on here are Northern types and not the Talksport Savvern White Van man, but I've never detected arrogance re the England team around here, be that the football or cricket team.

[thenodrog]

Why don't you non Englishman try talking to you know the actual general public, and not listen to those that revel in their ignorance on the BBC and in the papers.

Now maybe it's because most of us on here are Northern types and not the Talksport Savvern White Van man, but I've never detected arrogance re the England team around here, be that the football or cricket team.

The press and media are Englands worst enemies. That is where any arrogance in the (usually younger) general public originates. imo we don't have 1 genuine world class player but I read and hear that phrase applied every week to some player or other.

[John]

BBC 1

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Why don't you non Englishman try talking to you know the actual general public, and not listen to those that revel in their ignorance on the BBC and in the papers.

Now maybe it's because most of us on here are Northern types and not the Talksport Savvern White Van man, but I've never detected arrogance re the England team around here, be that the football or cricket team.

I agree, no bullshit from me re the England team. The last time I thought we were good enough to win anything was in 1990. It' s not my fault the English press and TV talk complete ######. We're light years from winning this trophy and the next World Cup. Everything about our method of playing is wrong, passing, running off the ball, pressing. We're poor at all these aspects of the game but first and formost our decision making is terrible. Given an option during the game we'll nearly always make the wrong choice. Good teams in any sport take the right option most of the time.

[Stuart]

Anyone know which channel Greece v Russia might be on? Doesn't seem to be on BBC or ITV to me.

BBC 3

[Clitherover]

Like many children, when I started supporting football, I looked for a team in the nearest big league, which was the Premiership. If I had lived in Germany, France, Spain, Italy or Holland, I would have supported a team in the Bundesliga, Ligue 1, La Liga or the Eredivise.

Fair answer, sorry if i came across like I was having a go, I've nothing at all against the Irish, I quite like them in fact, and I just thought your original comment was slightly undignified.

Why don't you non Englishman try talking to you know the actual general public, and not listen to those that revel in their ignorance on the BBC and in the papers.

Now maybe it's because most of us on here are Northern types and not the Talksport Savvern White Van man, but I've never detected arrogance re the England team around here, be that the football or cricket team.

Southerners are a different breed to Northerners imo, I find we have more similarities to the Scots than those down south.

[thenodrog]

I agree, no bullshit from me re the England team. The last time I thought we were good enough to win anything was in 1990. It' s not my fault the English press and TV talk complete ######. We're light years from winning this trophy and the next World Cup. Everything about our method of playing is wrong, passing, running off the ball, pressing. We're poor at all these aspects of the game but first and formost our decision making is terrible. Given an option during the game we'll nearly always make the wrong choice. Good teams in any sport take the right option most of the time.

There is no 'I' in team. One thing Hodgson appears to have majored in is team spirit and hunger within the squad and credit for that. I said after the South Africa debacle that a B team of players who were hungry to wear the shirt would have done far better than the bunch of billy big times who thought they were too good to play for England. A few examples. Look at Holland they have superb players but have major fall outs at every tournament, the French are a touch moody too yet Greece and Denmark have both triumphed in recent years cos of their togetherness.

[Gav]

whoever said drop ashley cole from the team hes only the best left back in the world, doh!!!

He was awful last night, out of position time after time, cost us 1 goal at least.

Cole needs putting out to pasture after this tournament and we need to move on, lets home he takes that **** Terry with him