[Archived] euro12 thread

[RoyRover]

Why don't you non Englishman try talking to you know the actual general public, and not listen to those that revel in their ignorance on the BBC and in the papers.

Now maybe it's because most of us on here are Northern types and not the Talksport Savvern White Van man, but I've never detected arrogance re the England team around here, be that the football or cricket team.

That's a fair point and one that I would tend to agree with. I do think that there has been a more realistic view of the England team amongst the English public and which has been reflected on this message board. I do remember at past tournaments (excluding the last World Cup) reading a lot of ridiculous comments about England and being accused of being anti-English when putting a more realistic opinion forward. I find your comment about the northern and southern opinions interesting. It's something I have never picked up on, but now you say it, I realise how when listening to football phone ins, it's generally the northern callers who speak far more sense!

[Amo]

There is no 'I' in team.

Did anyone hear Lawro say this the other night like he coined the phrase?

[Audax]

Don't want to make "excuses", they say A. Cole has an ankle problem.

[Audax]

With Greece winning, Poles/Czechs drawing, if it ended like this, Greece and Russia would go through. Sure you all heard that too.

[Audax]

Czechs Score 1-0

Who ever finishes 2nd will probably play Germany though I think the Russians might be able to give them a good match. But no one will want to play Germany in the first knockout round.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Russia out at present

[Audax]

So if Greece and Czechs win, they both go through??? That might be the way it stands.... I don't know, we will see.... I had a feeling this game might go this way with Czechs/Poland and said so......not to take credit, I kind of wanted to see Poland go through...

Okay, CONGRATS GREECE/CZECHS!!! Good for you!

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Now confirmed, Greece still in the Euro (sorry, poor attempt at Euro humour)

[Stuart]

A cautionary tale for England. Not through yet.

[Audax]

I read a website talking about this tiebreaking and one of the pundits said "face it, Greece is not defeating Russia", so, a good team goes down...

Tomorrow, I don't really see the Dutch coming through but we'll see.

[pick32]

Glad Russia are out there fans are a disgrace and believed all the hype.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

He was awful last night, out of position time after time, cost us 1 goal at least.

Cole needs putting out to pasture after this tournament and we need to move on, lets home he takes that **** Terry with him

i didn't think he was that bad , let's face it nobody actually had a good 90 minutes. Him and Phillip Lahm still the best two full backs I've seen up to now.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Captain hair weave back, start with Theo, no probs Tuesday, top of group!

[Audax]

There were good comments on the BBC article on the England/Sweden game, saying Sweden played physically and it was exactly why an Andy Carrol was needed who could muscle in and make good play. I agree with it. England may not be perfect but they do have a few weapons, I think the defence needs to be shored up some.

[roverandout]

sorry but i dont agree about cole, hes world class, was one of chelsea's best players in the champions league final, how you can say hes past it based on one game is ludicrous, terry is also still a top class defender, the amount of times hes saved england and chelsea over the years shows his standing, we have four points from two games, we are on the verge of the quater finals and this has been done without half our first team being at the euros and our talisman set to return on tuesday, some people are never happy, some people on here need to get a grip. that said i was one of the england supporters who thought we wouldnt get out of the group, we may not get past the quarter finals but just getting that far is an achievement in itself, after the season we have endured with rovers, i thought people might be a little more upbeat with what england have achieved so far.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

I'm positive (sh*t, starting to sound like Coco) If Spain draw 2-2 with Croatia, we top group, we play Croatia, Simples!

[Andy]

It doesn't matter who we get - you have to go through some big nations if you win tournaments like the Euros.

[joey_big_nose]

Like others felt Russia had a very strong team but their fans are (well at least a decent proportion of them) are a terrible lot so pleased they are going home. Feel sorry for Poland, great country, lovely people, seem to be good hosts. Also had some good players in the Bremen trio.

ALways had a soft spot for the czechs so happy to see them through.

[jim mk2]

People should cool down, I don't snipe at other teams, for example, I understand Rooney is of an Irish background.... so I don't criticise Ireland.

But look at your statement here, Argentina, World Cup semifinals? Last time, 1990, same as England, Arg. over England in '98, lost to England in '02.

Spain?? They are the country that has been called "perennial underachievers" for so long, "same old Spain" as the Sun said in '06 but I thought they'd win in '08 to people who said they'd do the same thing again.

France, I like "Les Bleus" but to be involved in how they went to South Africa by the hand ball assisted goal by Henry and then being practically the worse team except for North Korea at the 2010 World cup is a shame I'm glad England are not involved in. Also, I've got some questions respectfully about what made Zidane go, see questions now that are coming out about what made West Germany go.

Italy, won the World Cup in '06 but I'm sorry, there league again and again is shown to be very corrupt, match-fixing scandals and the way they've won, I can't buy that either.

Netherlands have gone on a good run, still, Portugal eliminated England and Netherlands both in Euro '04 and World Cup '06 (see http://www.eloratings.net/Portugal.htm if I have that right). Netherlands style too made a big change from "total football".

Germany is the one country always in the mix. Brazil is always a beast, now they have Neymar but that said, Uruguay has now become the top South American power as far as finishing better at South Africa, 4th place and I believe winning the last Copa America, think Uruguay won that, so right now, Argentina and Brazil aren't even the top powers in South America. I totally respect the Germans but their history is not all that clean and shiny either. Nothing personal against them.

So, I don't criticise other countries but it's evident these other countries have had big problems too.

Come off it. England's international record is pitiful.

We are a similar to Germany and Italy in terms of population size and football traditions yet Germany have won the World Cup three times and have won the Euros three times (runners-up four times and three times respectively).

Italy have won four World Cups and the Euros once.

Over the years the international records of France, Spain, Argentina and of course Brazil also leave England in the shade

England have won the World Cup once - 46 years ago, and have failed to reach another final. We should have won Euro 96 but blew it and that's as good as it's got in that competition.

England over the years have been abysmal mainly because with the exception of Alf Ramsey we have always been badly managed.

[Rovermatt]

Like others felt Russia had a very strong team but their fans are (well at least a decent proportion of them) are a terrible lot so pleased they are going home. Feel sorry for Poland, great country, lovely people, seem to be good hosts. Also had some good players in the Bremen trio.

ALways had a soft spot for the czechs so happy to see them through.

Dortmund trio?

Sorry to see the Russians go out from a footballing point of view (especially to the Greeks) but when you can't even be bothered to earn a point against an inferior opponent then you certainly don't deserve to progress. They clearly thought they were sorted for the next round after trouncing the Czechs on day one. Idiots.

[Audax]

Come off it. England's international record is pitiful.

We are a similar to Germany and Italy in terms of population size and football traditions yet Germany have won the World Cup three times and have won the Euros three times (runners-up four times and three times respectively).

Italy have won four World Cups and the Euros once.

Over the years the international records of France, Spain, Argentina and of course Brazil also leave England in the shade

England have won the World Cup once - 46 years ago, and have failed to reach another final. We should have won Euro 96 but blew it and that's as good as it's got in that competition.

England over the years have been abysmal mainly because with the exception of Alf Ramsey we have always been badly managed.

But the point is, the same was said for Spain as well.

I'll give you Brazil, they are almost expected to win it every time at least by their fans so the fact that Uruguay can pip them still would seem to indicate something.

I don't argue that Italy and Germany have more World Cups, that is history, England didn't even enter the tournament in the 1930s, we know one of those, 1934 was the Duce's tournament so in a nutshell, that sums up a lot of World Cup play. 1954 West Germany's win in Switzerland? 1978? World Cup history is pretty murky. 1982? West Germany's collusion with Austria for a draw and the obvious cheating by Schumacher to knock the teeth out of the French attacker Battiston? Is this really the great heritage of these teams? Is it when Italy is continued embroiled in betting scandals and their big teams get relegated? Bribed to win the Champions League in 1972(?)(cerca that year) against Leeds? Maradona's hand of god play? Win that way? West Germany winning in '90 by what many people see is basically just a dive. Maradona getting kicked out of the '94 World Cup? Can go on and on. A trophy is a trophy but diving, conniving and seeing the best player for the other team sent off as we saw in '06 I'm not sure is all that heroic.

England, 521 wins, 176 losses, 217 draws

Argentina, 499 wins, 205 losses, 232 draws

France 353 wins, 227 losses, 160 draws

Spain, 348 wins, 118 losses, 142 draws

http://www.eloratings.net/world.html

Not sure if just counting up trophies says it all.

[Baz]

But the point is, the same was said for Spain as well.

I'll give you Brazil, they are almost expected to win it every time at least by their fans so the fact that Uruguay can pip them still would seem to indicate something.

I don't argue that Italy and Germany have more World Cups, that is history, England didn't even enter the tournament in the 1930s, we know one of those, 1934 was the Duce's tournament so in a nutshell, that sums up a lot of World Cup play. 1954 West Germany's win in Switzerland? 1978? World Cup history is pretty murky. 1982? West Germany's collusion with Austria for a draw and the obvious cheating by Schumacher to knock the teeth out of the French attacker Battiston? Is this really the great heritage of these teams? Is it when Italy is continued embroiled in betting scandals and their big teams get relegated? Bribed to win the Champions League in 1972(?)(cerca that year) against Leeds? Maradona's hand of god play? Win that way? West Germany winning in '90 by what many people see is basically just a dive. Maradona getting kicked out of the '94 World Cup? Can go on and on.

England, 521 wins, 176 losses, 217 draws

Argentina, 499 wins, 205 losses, 232 draws

France 353 wins, 227 losses, 160 draws

Spain, 348 wins, 118 losses, 142 draws

http://www.eloratings.net/world.html

Not sure if just counting up trophies says it all.

Bluntly, there no way on earth since 66 that England have had a consistently better team, than Brazil, Germany, Italy or Argentina. I'd say it's even at best over than timespan with Spain, although their team has been superior to England's for at least the past decade too.

[thenodrog]

He was awful last night, out of position time after time, cost us 1 goal at least.

Cole needs putting out to pasture after this tournament and we need to move on,

And your replacement for Cole is?.........

btw I'm not accepting Leighton Baines as an answer.

[Audax]

Bluntly, there no way on earth since 66 that England have had a consistently better team, than Brazil, Germany, Italy or Argentina. I'd say it's even at best over than timespan with Spain, although their team has been superior to England's for at least the past decade too.

No argument about Brazil being in general best in the world, Germany best in Europe, Italy, Argentina, France next.

Post# 396 http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php/topic/27272-euro12-thread/page__st__380 Original post.

No one said England was equal to or better than Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Italy, Spain and France but I think some perspective is called for nonetheless. Bluntly that is so. I'll leave it at that.

The original post was comparing England to Denmark/Croatia. Denmark won of course in '92 and has had good teams, team TNT, Croatia may have been 3rd or 4th in '98. You'd have to read exactly what was said before asserting someone would say something outrageous like England have done as well as Brazil which certainly was not said nor nearly as good as the Germans. Still some perspective needs to be made. Croatia and Denmark have also missed some trophy tournaments. I was saying we should be careful who we criticise in regards to other nations. Heck, I like Belgium, they've had some very good tournaments but haven't made a big trophy tournament now in 8 or 10 years.

[Audax]

I said in this thread or another here too, that Sweden is basically a team, especially per recent head to head who is in more in England's tier along with teams like Russia at this year's Euro.