[Archived] euro12 thread

[jim mk2]

But the point is, the same was said for Spain as well.

I'll give you Brazil, they are almost expected to win it every time at least by their fans so the fact that Uruguay can pip them still would seem to indicate something.

I don't argue that Italy and Germany have more World Cups, that is history, England didn't even enter the tournament in the 1930s, we know one of those, 1934 was the Duce's tournament so in a nutshell, that sums up a lot of World Cup play. 1954 West Germany's win in Switzerland? 1978? World Cup history is pretty murky. 1982? West Germany's collusion with Austria for a draw and the obvious cheating by Schumacher to knock the teeth out of the French attacker Battiston? Is this really the great heritage of these teams? Is it when Italy is continued embroiled in betting scandals and their big teams get relegated? Bribed to win the Champions League in 1972(?)(cerca that year) against Leeds? Maradona's hand of god play? Win that way? West Germany winning in '90 by what many people see is basically just a dive. Maradona getting kicked out of the '94 World Cup? Can go on and on. A trophy is a trophy but diving, conniving and seeing the best player for the other team sent off as we saw in '06 I'm not sure is all that heroic.

England, 521 wins, 176 losses, 217 draws

Argentina, 499 wins, 205 losses, 232 draws

France 353 wins, 227 losses, 160 draws

Spain, 348 wins, 118 losses, 142 draws

http://www.eloratings.net/world.html

Not sure if just counting up trophies says it all.

England were too arrogant to enter the World Cup pre-1950 and then promptly got knocked out by the USA !

As friendly matches are meaningless how else do you judge international performance except by countries' records in the big tournaments ?

Also, apart from England's abysmal performance at those tournaments we also failed to qualify for the 1974, 1978 and 1992 World Cups.

If you think for one of the supposedly major football nations England's record is acceptable you're deluded.

[T4E]

It doesn't matter who we get - you have to go through some big nations if you win tournaments like the Euros.

Nice cliche, but nonsense. Would you rather play Spain in the next round when everyone is fit and they have no suspensions, or in the final when they've played 5 games in 20 days and may have a few knocks and a weakened starting 11? Your probability of success goes way up.

You need to keep getting through while avoiding the best teams. You never know what may happen in tournament football - a South Korea or a Greece may come along and take care of the big boys for you.

[Ozz]

Correct. Which is why in todays games, we should want wins for Denmark and Portugal, thus eliminating the Jerrys and the Dutch. Then Croatia and Italy to win on Monday.

[pokeheruptheace]

Don't think anyone can argue that this is a pretty poor England team. However they are trying their best and thats all we ask of them.

If we do qualify which is no foregone conclusion and play Spain, I think they will give them a game because that seems the mentality of this team. It wont be good enough though, but as long as they try that will do for me - they will afterall be playing one of the best teams, not just now but ever.

Do we all not think that in a few years time we will be a decent team. All young (ish)

Hart

Cahill

Jones

Wilshere

Chamberlain

wellbeck

Rooney

A very good nucleus - the futures bright

[Ozz]

Am I allowed to say Jerrys still?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

He's a world class buffoon, highly overrated and is one of those who typifies all that is wrong with the game (cash greedy, a blatant cheat in more than one aspect, and a complete child).

Even my personal opinion of him aside, he's had a poor tournament so far and I don't think we'd miss him, even with a misfit at left back.

I watched them in the first match feeling slightly terrified. They played at a great pace and were deadly, even with Kerzhakov missing left right and centre.

They got progressively worse over the last couple of games so to me it's no "shock". They had one good game out of the three. But, likewise, they're an intimidating lot off the pitch so I'm glad they're going home (and there's a chance they may not even qualify for the Euros next time because of their behaviour).

You need to get a grip matey. He's playing left back for England not marrying your daughter. He may not be likeable but if that was the sole criteria for team selection we wouldn't have enough players for a five-a-side team. He's one of a handful of really top class players that we have. Didn't you watch the Champions League Final ?

[K-Hod]

People criticising Ashley Cole need to put their personal disdain of the lad (which is rational in fairness) to one side, he is an incredibly good player!

[Clitherover]

Don't think anyone can argue that this is a pretty poor England team. However they are trying their best and thats all we ask of them.

Exactly, they actually look like they want to play for their country, which is a lot more than can be said about England side's of the past few years.

[Audax]

England were too arrogant to enter the World Cup pre-1950 and then promptly got knocked out by the USA !

As friendly matches are meaningless how else do you judge international performance except by countries' records in the big tournaments ?

Also, apart from England's abysmal performance at those tournaments we also failed to qualify for the 1974, 1978 and 1992 World Cups.

If you think for one of the supposedly major football nations England's record is acceptable you're deluded.

Okay, you win the argument, doping, diving and other cheating is what winning is about.

[Majiball]

Cracking result for Greece yesterday.

Although the refs did their best to ensure they wouldn't go through.

Guess Russia bought more than the world cup.

[Gav]

And your replacement for Cole is?.........

btw I'm not accepting Leighton Baines as an answer.

Simply, we don't have one Gordon, but in my opinion this tournament should have seen us blood new players in the main, injuries have actually seen that happen, but the likes of Cole, Lampard, Terry, Gerrard etc shouldn't have got near the squad for me.

[greco]

Come off it. England's international record is pitiful.

We are a similar to Germany and Italy in terms of population size and football traditions yet Germany have won the World Cup three times and have won the Euros three times (runners-up four times and three times respectively).

Italy have won four World Cups and the Euros once.

Over the years the international records of France, Spain, Argentina and of course Brazil also leave England in the shade

England have won the World Cup once - 46 years ago, and have failed to reach another final. We should have won Euro 96 but blew it and that's as good as it's got in that competition.

England over the years have been abysmal mainly because with the exception of Alf Ramsey we have always been badly managed.

agreed jim.

its not just a matter of record, but also a matter of style. We have had a number discussions regarding hoofball and barca-ball on brfcs and im going to wake up that beast again. When you have the football infrastructure, population, history and a league which rank as top 3 in the world, you damn well expect such a nation to perform better, not only when it comes to results, but also when it comes to style. Audax fails to undertsand, that when a nation like england, with the circumstances mentioned above, play a boring ass counter attacking style, its already a dissapointment.

[roverandout]

so gerrard shouldnt be in the england team even though he has 2 assists out of england's 4 goals? yeah whatever. lampard isnt there anyway and i doubt he would have been a starter, as i have said before terry is still a top class defender despite what he does off the field, cole is the best leftback in the world.

[Mattyblue]

It always intrerests me just how passionate some folk get re the national team.

Me and a mate watched it in the pub with that kind of detached feel you get when it's round two of the League Cup, we politely clapped the goals, plenty went mental though, last minute Rovers winner style.

Not knocking anybody, just an observation.

[roverandout]

i have more passion for england right now as rovers feels like a different club at the mo, i love both the same though but its a bit like a wife that you love dearly but you are going through problems and dont feel the same way about her and a bit on the side whom you love to play around with, (note: i am not married nor have i ever had a mistress)

[ABBEY]

naughty england fans

ARE UEFA AND VENKYS SAME ?

[gumboots]

It always intrerests me just how passionate some folk get re the national team.

Me and a mate watched it in the pub with that kind of detached feel you get when it's round two of the League Cup, we politely clapped the goals, plenty went mental though, last minute Rovers winner style.

Not knocking anybody, just an observation.

I don't get it either, but what's even weirder is that it's only the england football team that makes me feel like it doesn't really belong to me. I'm mad passionate watching england play rugby, cricket, win at just about any other sport you can name. I put it down to the strong dislike you develop for most of the england players when you watch them play for their club. It's hard to divorce them from that club allegiance. Plus their private lives are lived out in public far more than those of any other sportsman, so we all know what an obnoxious so and so Terry is or Ashley cole and so on so you find it hard to really support people you would dislike intensely if you knew them in your everyday life. Take away the mystique and you take away a lot of the appeal.

[Amo]

I don't get it either, but what's even weirder is that it's only the england football team that makes me feel like it doesn't really belong to me. I'm mad passionate watching england play rugby, cricket, win at just about any other sport you can name. I put it down to the strong dislike you develop for most of the england players when you watch them play for their club. It's hard to divorce them from that club allegiance. Plus their private lives are lived out in public far more than those of any other sportsman, so we all know what an obnoxious so and so Terry is or Ashley cole and so on so you find it hard to really support people you would dislike intensely if you knew them in your everyday life. Take away the mystique and you take away a lot of the appeal.

Bingo.

[Kelbo]

Despite the warblings of Blatter and Platini, I would nuch rather watch Rovers v Burnley or Liverpool etc than European/Intetrnational football, to many prima donnas for me!!

[Tom]

It always intrerests me just how passionate some folk get re the national team.

Me and a mate watched it in the pub with that kind of detached feel you get when it's round two of the League Cup, we politely clapped the goals, plenty went mental though, last minute Rovers winner style.

Not knocking anybody, just an observation.

Would love us to win a tournament but I feel much the same as you I remember folk in tears when we went out against Brazil and I just went on to work a little bit annoyed then enjoyed the rest of the tournament

[K-Hod]

It always intrerests me just how passionate some folk get re the national team.

Me and a mate watched it in the pub with that kind of detached feel you get when it's round two of the League Cup, we politely clapped the goals, plenty went mental though, last minute Rovers winner style.

Not knocking anybody, just an observation.

I'm more the reserved type of celebration with England. Truth is, Rovers come first for me, and always will. Just the way I see it.

[Kelbo]

Just got a feeling Croatia may win it!!

[Audax]

agreed jim.

its not just a matter of record, but also a matter of style. We have had a number discussions regarding hoofball and barca-ball on brfcs and im going to wake up that beast again. When you have the football infrastructure, population, history and a league which rank as top 3 in the world, you damn well expect such a nation to perform better, not only when it comes to results, but also when it comes to style. Audax fails to undertsand, that when a nation like england, with the circumstances mentioned above, play a boring ass counter attacking style, its already a dissapointment.

Well, if it's style you are talking about, the Dutch should have been mentioned, 1 Euro but they have a large following around the world. I guess people like Greco like boring ass attacks but I'll go with Total Football over a vast amount of the nations mentioned as being "great" because of their trophies, some gotten by hook and crook, that's why I like France but I'm convinced that some nations style of play has probably forced France themselves to bend the rules as history shows.

Yeah, Netherlands wasn't even mentioned and people love 'em.

England has had big problems but people won't deny a lot of the fans in England look at it with club coloured glasses, too bad, media undermines the team, lots of problems like this at least in the last decade or so.

[Gav]

so gerrard shouldnt be in the england team even though he has 2 assists out of england's 4 goals? yeah whatever. lampard isnt there anyway and i doubt he would have been a starter, as i have said before terry is still a top class defender despite what he does off the field, cole is the best leftback in the world.

England won't win this tournament, so Gerrards assists, Cole being the best left back in the world, and that tosser Terry won’t make the blindest bit of difference come the next world cup and Euros.

Think bigger picture

[Tom]

Right

Currently

Germany 6 points

Denmark and Portugal 3 points

Holland 0 points

Both Germany and Denmark beat holland

I feel thick now, someone said it was head to head results before goal difference but holland can still go through if they win by 2 and Germany win, how is this possible as they would then be on 3 and behind Denmark and Germany on head to head?

Is it goal difference and then head to head? If so shouldn't Russia have gone through ahead of Greece?

My brain hurts

Edit: EUREKA! I presume it's because 3 teams would be on 3 and they all took points off each other so resorts to GD

simple eh