[Archived] euro12 thread

[jim mk2]

Well, if it's style you are talking about, the Dutch should have been mentioned, 1 Euro but they have a large following around the world. I guess people like Greco like boring ass attacks but I'll go with Total Football over a vast amount of the nations mentioned as being "great" because of their trophies, some gotten by hook and crook, that's why I like France but I'm convinced that some nations style of play has probably forced France themselves to bend the rules as history shows.

Yeah, Netherlands wasn't even mentioned and people love 'em.

England has had big problems but people won't deny a lot of the fans in England look at it with club coloured glasses, too bad, media undermines the team, lots of problems like this at least in the last decade or so.

What is this balderdash ??

Please provide evidence that any nation has "bent the rules" to win a major tournament.

History shows some nations are good at tournamant football, and others aren't, England among them.

The Dutch are serial bottlers in big matches and have not won many trophies because they are not good enough.

[T4E]

....but only goal difference in the games against each other. Not games against Germany.

If Alex Song was Dutch they'd probably be going through. Van Persie relies on him way too much at Arsenal.

[Harrier7]

Watching the Germany game and have had to turn the sound off because of the dreadfully boring repetitive chant of their fans. Good ref, refusing to be conned by all the diving too.

[T4E]

So England's path to winning it is likely to be either -

Spain, Portugal, Germany (if they finish second in group)

or

Italy/Croatia, Germany, Spain (if they win the group)

If they win it they'll have done it in as tough a way as possible.

[Blueboy Downunder]

Sam Matterface ‏@sammatterface

Banner at #por 2 #hol 1 saying "Kean Out" #BRFC

[Commondore]

Despite the warblings of Blatter and Platini, I would nuch rather watch Rovers v Burnley or Liverpool etc than European/Intetrnational football, to many prima donnas for me!!

So the fact that England can't suddenly buy Ukraine's or Sweden's best players (or the other way around) just before the tournament doesn't do anything for you? Also, it's not like there are no primadonnas in club football, even as low as the Championship.

[Stuart]

Please provide evidence that any nation has "bent the rules" to win a major tournament.

Argentina '86 still hurts...

[jim mk2]

Argentina '86 still hurts...

Was the ball over the line in 1966 or had England bribed the Russian linesman ?

For these and more conspiracy theories, see audax.

[Stuart]

Was the ball over the line in 1966 or had England bribed the Russian linesman ?

For these and more conspiracy theories, see audax.

It was well over the line and you know it.

Now Gerrard's against Germany, that's a toughie.

[thenodrog]

Simply, we don't have one Gordon, but in my opinion this tournament should have seen us blood new players in the main, injuries have actually seen that happen, but the likes of Cole, Lampard, Terry, Gerrard etc shouldn't have got near the squad for me.

We can replace those other 3 but not Cole imo. Finding quality English left footed players has been a problem for the national squad for decades. Odd cos the Dutch seem able to turn up loads.

Personal dislike is not a reason for chucking the baby out with the bathwater.

[thenodrog]

It was well over the line and you know it.

Now Gerrard's against Germany, that's a toughie.

Lampards.

[Hanks]

Was the ball over the line in 1966 or had England bribed the Russian linesman ?

For these and more conspiracy theories, see audax.

I have always thought that the Hurst Goal was a hometown decision given by an uncertain official. Given that it barely 20 years since the end of WW2. The only opinion that mattered, though, was that of Soviet linesman Tofik Bakhramov, who awarded the goal. There is an apocryphal story that when Bakhramov was on his deathbed he was asked how he was so sure it was a goal and he gave the one-word reply "Stalingrad," referring to the battle in which 750,000 Soviets died.

More sinister/strangely coincidental event was on the afternoon that a German referee sent off Rattin in the England v Argentine match, an English referee sent off two uruguayans in there quarter against Germany

[doowe]

I have always thought that the Hurst Goal was a hometown decision given by an uncertain official. Given that it barely 20 years since the end of WW2. The only opinion that mattered, though, was that of Soviet linesman Tofik Bakhramov, who awarded the goal. There is an apocryphal story that when Bakhramov was on his deathbed he was asked how he was so sure it was a goal and he gave the one-word reply "Stalingrad," referring to the battle in which 750,000 Soviets died.

More sinister/strangely coincidental event was on the afternoon that a German referee sent off Rattin in the England v Argentine match, an English referee sent off two uruguayans in there quarter against Germany

Go back to work Hank!

[Audax]

In Euro '08, Croatia did defeat Germany, today they play Spain. Croatia just needs to not let down in the knock-out rounds as they went out to Turkey last time in that very memorable game.

Croatia is talking big about beating challenging Spain today.

http://www.soccerway.com/news/2012/June/16/croatia-can-slice-open-spain-says-eduardo/

http://www.soccerway.com/news/2012/June/16/jelavic-rested-following-fever/

Small nation, some unruly fans but as for the team themselves, I respect them.

[Audax]

I have always thought that the Hurst Goal was a hometown decision given by an uncertain official. Given that it barely 20 years since the end of WW2. The only opinion that mattered, though, was that of Soviet linesman Tofik Bakhramov, who awarded the goal. There is an apocryphal story that when Bakhramov was on his deathbed he was asked how he was so sure it was a goal and he gave the one-word reply "Stalingrad," referring to the battle in which 750,000 Soviets died.

More sinister/strangely coincidental event was on the afternoon that a German referee sent off Rattin in the England v Argentine match, an English referee sent off two uruguayans in there quarter against Germany

Okay, from the '66 Final England vs. West Germany, Brian Glanville says the goal the West Germans scored to draw up the score was off of a free kick that should not have been awarded to the Germans in the first place. That's in his World Cup history book or maybe online somewhere.

But when I do read the history books, it is not so much about Hurst's goal as it is this match against Argentina that I have questions about. This Rattin, Ratlin, however it is, sat and refused to go off for a period of time, (think legend is he sat out on top of the Royal carpet), this is the game I have more questions about because win or lose, it needs to be as sporting as possible. So, to me, '86 cancels out '66 somewhat. There is an interview with Rattin online I have read before and in Argentina, it is called "El Robo" "Robbery" in regards to '66. So Hanks does bring up good questions, this is the game where Sir Alf Ramsey said the Argentines were like "animals", I have only seen limited footage of this match.

Portugal did seal it last night, Eusebio and Portugal, a much smaller country I know, is another power I have admired. Portugal have some fair chances this time. During the rain delay in France Ukraine Friday, the announcers spent a lot of time on what the Dutch needed to do to qualify, they totally to an annoying degree, ignored that Portugal was in the mix as well.

[greco]

Audax

Well, if it's style you are talking about, the Dutch should have been mentioned, 1 Euro but they have a large following around the world.

no they should not, they are not comparable to england when it comes to population, the other nations are.

I guess people like Greco like boring ass attacks

where did you get that idea from.? perhaps you should re-read the posts you are quoting and do so in a suitable pace, so you dont get confused.

but I'll go with Total Football over a vast amount of the nations mentioned as being "great" because of their trophies, some gotten by hook and crook, that's why I like France but I'm convinced that some nations style of play has probably forced France themselves to bend the rules as history shows.

whatever floats your boat mate.

Yeah, Netherlands wasn't even mentioned and people love 'em.

okay...

England has had big problems but people won't deny a lot of the fans in England look at it with club coloured glasses, too bad, media undermines the team, lots of problems like this at least in the last decade or so.

thats probably a part of the problem aswell,i could imagine that the club bias could be counter productive when it comes to national teams, but i cant see why that should only concern England.

likewise with the tabloids, sure they can be a bit harsh, but do you really think its an english invention, to critisize the national football team.?

They are rightly being critisised. England should be a football powerhouse, with elite players and be amongst the best, but they are not and therefore they recieve the criticism they deserve. They are being judged as equals to the nations i mentioned in a previous post, because thats where they should be and as long sthey are not, they will be treated as they do and rightly so.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Okay, from the '66 Final England vs. West Germany, Brian Glanville says the goal the West Germans scored to draw up the score was off of a free kick that should not have been awarded to the Germans in the first place. That's in his World Cup history book or maybe online somewhere.

But when I do read the history books, it is not so much about Hurst's goal as it is this match against Argentina that I have questions about. This Rattin, Ratlin, however it is, sat and refused to go off for a period of time, (think legend is he sat out on top of the Royal carpet), this is the game I have more questions about because win or lose, it needs to be as sporting as possible. So, to me, '86 cancels out '66 somewhat. There is an interview with Rattin online I have read before and in Argentina, it is called "El Robo" "Robbery" in regards to '66. So Hanks does bring up good questions, this is the game where Sir Alf Ramsey said the Argentines were like "animals", I have only seen limited footage of this match.

Portugal did seal it last night, Eusebio and Portugal, a much smaller country I know, is another power I have admired. Portugal have some fair chances this time. During the rain delay in France Ukraine Friday, the announcers spent a lot of time on what the Dutch needed to do to qualify, they totally to an annoying degree, ignored that Portugal was in the mix as well.

Speaking as an old timer who remembers the game very well Argentina had only themselves to blame. Right from the first whistle they were putting it about good style, on top of that Rattin the captain ( who was a top class playmaker when he could be bothered to play football , imagine tugay but 6 ft 3 tall ) decided he'd rather referee than play football. I know it takes two to tango and I've always had a soft spot for Argentine football but they were going through a very physical spell at the time and thought they could win this game with a combination of gamesmanship and violence. Rattin was in the ref's ear all the time he was out there and the ref just decided he'd had enough.

If you find film of Racing Club v Glasgow Celtic in the World Club Championship a few years later you'll see what I'm talking about. 6 sent of and the game was complete mayhem from start to finish. Celtic had to play the away leg and the replay in South America after a nasty game in Glasgow, the Celtic players eventually just snapped and ended up with four of ttheir players all sharing an early bath. It made the Chelsea v Leeds games look like a picnic !

[Hanks]

Go back to work Hank!

What in this weather Anyway are you going to watch the Azzurri tonight or the 2-2 draw between spain and croatia that will see them eliminated

[ABBEY]

JJB ENGLAND SHIRTS £20!!!

Has this been posted? think I may get one from my "change tin".

[Stuart]

Kiss of death time.

I think I'm right in saying that as things stand (Italy 1-0 Ireland; Croatia 0-0 Spain), Spain finish second and England won't have to play them in the Quarter Finals...?

[Stuart]

Anyone else already sick of the build up over Wayne Rooney. In the matches so far, it's been about the team - can't help but think it's going to go pear-shaped tomorrow with all the extra hype.

[Tom]

Ukraine are a steady, average team if we can't beat them and go through comfortably then there's a problem.

I still fancy us to go all the way, if we get Italy I think we'd be favourites, neutralise Pirlo and you stop them.

Once you get to the semis I think form and even class can go out of the window and it's anyone's to win

[Stuart]

Was 1990 the last time we met Italy in a tournament? Scillacci and all that?

[Kelbo]

Its wrong that if Italy and Croatia are level on points and goal difference, Croatia go out due to Italys world standings!!

[Tom]

The rules are to messy in my view

Spain may look fantastic at times but I'm not convinced they are that brilliant, it's all tippy tappy going nowhere a lot of the time