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[Archived] euro12 thread

ABBEY

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Salgado Is A Hero Champions League

Salgado Is A Hero

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ok fair enough, one thing that bothers me though is the media keep saying england havent beaten a top team on foreign soil since after '66, did we not beat argentina at the 2002 world cup?

Yes a Beckham penalty if I remember correctly. But that was in the group stages which is a bit different. I just read that England have not progressed beyond a quarter final for 16 years and have reached 2 semi finals in the last 62 years (World Cup and Euros).

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Audax Champions League

Audax

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Let;'s see England matches, major tournament: http://www.eloratings.net/England.htm

European Cup in Italy in June 1980, over Spain, yes, that would count, consider Spain has had it's own spotty history and so they would say because they are culturally diverse with the Catalonians, Andalucians, Basques, etc.

June 1982 World Cup, looks to be a victory over France.....also Czechoslovakia, over Czechs too in 1970, so though the Czechs may not be looked at as as much of a power, Czechoslovakia won the Euro Cup in 1976 I'm pretty sure.

So, that's just starting off the list. Belgium in 1990 and in fact Cameroon were very good teams, just NOT the big teams of Argentina, Brazil, Italy, West Germany/Germany but you can see, even France and Spain are relative 'newcomers' to the Club. Both France (84) and Spain (64) had won prior Euros, don't want to sell them short.... and of course, Netherlands with 1 Euro and 3 Finals in the World Cup certainly belongs as one of the great football nations on earth. Portugal probably has a rather small population but are really doing well, they just have had a few dry spells. Germany/West Germany is probably the only country to always be in the mix.

What hurts England is missing the '74 and '78 World Cups.... didn't play the right players, didn't want to select the Maverick types, Charlie George, Worthington, Mullery, Rod Marsh, Osgood, Alan Hudson, others, not sure if all of these are English and some may have got a few caps but in general were ignored. Pretty bad that England missed USA 1994 World Cup too but so it happens. And of course, Brian Clough not selected to manage England. Also, the Poland team that eliminated England from going to the 1974 World Cup probably was a super team and from behind the Iron Curtain for whatever that can mean.

This said, even Italy has missed a Euro and of course, France has missed out on a World Cup or 2 as well, one really needs to track all this info down, not sure about Spain. I think France has had some excellent teams though still even before 1966, just did not win every thing.

France historically, may have even more players in the top 100 players of all time, even more than Brazil. Of course, that was some list fourfourtwo or someone like that did. Giust Fontaine and others.

England need to get over the hump, even with all the acclaim the Spanish team had in 2008, it was a real trick for them to still go all the way..... and the Spanish player, Brazilian born Sendos happened to bloody up Michael Ballack's head both going for the ball in that 2008 final, so it's just not easy, we talk of how great Spain are though still but they probably had to get a little physical to do that.

Spain was somewhat robbed in the 2002 World Cup, South Korea and then in '06 by France, I don't want to cast dispersions, '06 was where Henry went down clutching his face and France got a free kick, a goal and Spain was seen off. Spain won the sportsmanship trophy in '06.... so, winning is nice but it's still not everything.... 1994, Italy bloodied Luis Enriquez (managed Roma this past season by coincidence), broken nose, lots of blood, it's at youtube, think Spain lost that game ultimately on pens or just straight out, I forget, Leonardo for Brazil did Tab Ramos USA equally bad or worse, fractured skull. Some of the tactics the winning teams have done are not always to be desired....lots more can be brought up on things like this.

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Tyrone Shoelaces

Tyrone Shoelaces

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Let's face it England haven't had decent team for about 20 years. It pains me to say it but we've absolutely no chance of beating all of Italy, Germany and Spain to win this trophy. Stop dreaming guys, Rovers have more chance of winning next seasons championship. As for last nights game- what a yawn fest. The French should hang their heads in shame, they didn't show any passion, desire or will to win. Nobody was prepared to bust a gut for a teammate. One thing I will say for Spain ,their pressing game is an object lesson in winning the ball back. Everybody works, nobody gets picked off and they press very high up the field. The pressure they put on the French back four was immense. No team wins the ball back in their opponents half more than Spain.

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DE. World Cup

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Italy aren't that good, we have every chance of beating them. Can't imagine it being a very exciting game, but there's still a chance we'll sneak through.

Germany will crush us, though. It'll be WC2010 all over again :(

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roverandout World Cup

roverandout

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sorry tyrone but thats bullshit, we had a great side in 2004, one of the best midfields at the tournament, not to mention ferdinand, terry and cole and two very good strikers in owen and rooney, we had a ###### keeper, that team at this tournament would be more than match for any side, this side is pretty average overall but most of these guys play at the top level so they cant beat that bad, italy are very beatable, they are no better than us

edit. it was actually sol campbell and not ferdinand as ferdinand was involved in some illegal drug test or something

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Salgado Is A Hero Champions League

Salgado Is A Hero

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sorry tyrone but thats bullshit, we had a great side in 2004, one of the best midfields at the tournament, not to mention ferdinand, terry and cole and two very good strikers in owen and rooney, we had a ###### keeper, that team at this tournament would be more than match for any side, this side is pretty average overall but most of these guys play at the top level so they cant beat that bad, italy are very beatable, they are no better than us

edit. it was actually sol campbell and not ferdinand as ferdinand was involved in some illegal drug test or something

Imo England have at least a strong starting 11 in every tournament that they qualify for. But the game isn't played on paper and certain nations just have the right footballing philosophy. Holland have a population that is less than a third of England I think but they usually have their tactics and gameplan spot on. England, not so much. They look better under Hodgson than the previous 2 managers and that is why I think England are being lauded for their organisation but I can still see enough flaws that the top teams will exploit.

Every tournament barring this one I hear this is England's best chance to win it. But the core of your team has been pretty similar for ages now. Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Owen and Beckham usually played. With not much difference between the other players. The English FA knew you didn't have the team to play possession based football like the top sides do and that's why they employed Capello, a manager with a diffferent philosophy. Hodgson knows that, like Greece, counter-attacking is the way for you to do it. This is the main reason why you can now beat the top teams, because you're not trying to play your way through them. But I still can't really see it happening. I give a 10% chance. Although a win in any shape or form and I would put it somewhere between 30 and 40% for the Germany game.

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Salgado Is A Hero Champions League

Salgado Is A Hero

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Imo England have at least a strong starting 11 in every tournament that they qualify for. But the game isn't played on paper and certain nations just have the right footballing philosophy. Holland have a population that is less than a third of England I think but they usually have their tactics and gameplan spot on. England, not so much. They look better under Hodgson than the previous 2 managers and that is why I think England are being lauded for their organisation but I can still see enough flaws that the top teams will exploit.

In every tournament I hear this is England's best chance to win it. But the core of your team has been pretty similar for ages now. Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Owen and Beckham usually played. With not much difference between the other players. The English FA knew you didn't have the team to play possession based football like the top sides do and that's why they employed Capello, a manager with a diffferent philosophy. Hodgson knows that, like Greece, counter-attacking is the way for you to do it. This is the main reason why you can now beat the top teams, because you're not trying to play your way through them. But I still can't really see it happening. I give a 10% chance. Although a win in any shape or form and I would put it somewhere between 30 and 40% for the Germany game.

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joey_big_nose World Cup

joey_big_nose

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Like others say I see us and Italy as very evenly matched and England through is plausible. Again as has been said, we are clearly nowhere near the quality of Germany or Spain who both have absolutely outstanding squads who are amongst the best - imo - ever to appear on the international stage. The attacking quality at their disposal is frightening. We have one truly world class attacking player in Rooney and Gerrard when he turns up (which he has been doing to be fair). Germany have five, Spain more like eight....!

On top of that in Alonso/Busquets and Khadiera/Schweinsteiger they have outstanding holding players to retain possession. For all his hard work and quality Parker is not on the same planet.

Love England to get to the final, but in the inevitable likelihood they won't a Spain Germany final will be fantastic to watch.

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Audax Champions League

Audax

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Italian football does have so much good, Di Canio has done well at Swindon town and I saw brought some Italians in for their year last year in League 2 and of course, the team got promoted, Zola kicked a goal that got Italy into a tournament and then the Azzurri failed to pick him, Mancini has done very well at City, Champions League performance obviously has to get better.

So I like Italian sports, cycling, skiing, boxing, but not always a fan of their national football team.

England to win!!! Think so....

Really would like to see Portugal defeat Spain but know that is a longshot.

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MarkBRFC71

MarkBRFC71

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joey agree with you but ashley cole is defenitately world class as he is the best left back in the world, joe hart is nearly world class and john terry is definately world class.

Cole better than Lahm?? Dont be silly. Joe Hart is potentially world class, John Terry has never been and never will be anywhere near - except in his own mind.

Gerrard has always been overrated and is too brainless to ever be in that top bracket of players (he's never looked anywhere as good since Alonso left Liverpool - HE was their lynchpin, not Stevie G), however he's put a couple of decent balls in in this tournament.

Would you take Parker/Gerrard over De Rossi/Pirlo? I think the Italian duo are better personally but I guess we'll see tonight.

I think 0-0 and penalty heartache again but I desperately hope to be wrong! ;)

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Salgado Is A Hero Champions League

Salgado Is A Hero

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John Terry has never been and never will be anywhere near - except in his own mind.

Gerrard has always been overrated and is too brainless to ever be in that top bracket of players (he's never looked anywhere as good since Alonso left Liverpool - HE was their lynchpin, not Stevie G), however he's put a couple of decent balls in in this tournament.

Would you take Parker/Gerrard over De Rossi/Pirlo? I think the Italian duo are better personally but I guess we'll see tonight.

I think 0-0 and penalty heartache again but I desperately hope to be wrong! ;)

I think Terry is an unbelievable ball-winning defender. He will put his body on the line as much as Nelsen and is just as good as blocking. But he needs the right partner next to him to sweep up behind him eg Ferdinand, Carvalho or Alex. So at what he does, he is at a world-class level but on the whole he can't be considered one of the best centre-backs in the world imo.

Good point about Alonso that I agree with.....people say it was just Gerrard passing to Torres but Alonso was a key part of that team. He has also had bad seasons in the past, unlike Lampard. Parker is good at what he does but the other top international sides' defensive midfielders are accomplished with the ball as well. Forza Italia!!!

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Tom World Cup

Tom

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He sliced it ! All England at the mo

Intentionally

Balotelli just did what Balotelli does beat

I can't stand this trend of singing seven nation army

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DE. World Cup

DE.

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Really irritates me seeing Joe Hart punt the ball up the pitch even when he's under no pressure, almost always leading to us losing possession. Pass it to a defender ffs.

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