[Archived] euro12 thread

[T4E]

nothing more to say than we arent in the top bracket and we are a million miles from that, italy were by far the better side, better passers, too many passengers tonight, young, rooney, milner, wellbeck, not one decent cross into the box, i just dont understand how hard it can be to pass a ball a few yards, i cant say im proud of them as we have not really gained anything from this tournament, we are no further along than we were in south africa, totally deflated as i thought it might be different this time around, ah well!!!

shut up t4e, you're a nob

Good argument. You stupid little cock

[MarkBRFC71]

Its not too shabby. Ox, Wiltshire, Welbeck, Hart, Jones, Smalling, Walker, Caroll is a decent foundation for the next ten years. Another very decent crop of youngster imo.

The point is I suppose is that these guys aren't anywhere near the quality of Germany or Spain (perhaps Hart, Wiltshire and Ox aside who all look excellent). But then Germany and Spain are utterly exceptional....

The question the FA should be asking themselves is why are Germany and Spain light years ahead of us? The answer is that they made a conscious decision to invest heavily in their youth football infrastructure right down at grass-roots level 10/15 years ago and are reaping the rewards, whereas our FA is too interested in feathering its own nest and that of the top half dozen Premier League clubs. It's like they've got the attitude that English clubs do well in Europe so it's a given that the national side should do well, conveniently overlooking that those clubs' best players are all foreign ....

[jim mk2]

We should have been able to give the Italians a game and instead we were obliterated

Italy won on penalties so I don't see how that translates into "obliterated". Italy had most of the possesion but did not create that many clear chances. England could and should have scored too.

[roverandout]

im a stupid little cock but you're still a nob most english fans have admitted that we were second best and that we werent good enough so why are you going on about humility?

[DE.]

Italy won on penalties so I don't see how that translates into "obliterated". Italy had most of the possesion but did not create that many clear chances. England could and should have scored too.

They had 31 shots to our 8, Jim, it wasn't exactly a close contest. The gulf in class was there for all to see.

We weren't obliterated by scoreline but we were in every other department.

[MarkBRFC71]

Italy won on penalties so I don't see how that translates into "obliterated". Italy had most of the possesion but did not create that many clear chances. England could and should have scored too.

Italy had 31 shots with 18 on target to our 8 and 4 respectively - that's a shoeing in anyone's book. We were dominated and outclassed.

[roverandout]

don't forget that italy played alot of long balls in the game looking for ballotelli so they were as bad as us at hoofball

[joey_big_nose]

The question the FA should be asking themselves is why are Germany and Spain light years ahead of us? The answer is that they made a conscious decision to invest heavily in their youth football infrastructure right down at grass-roots level 10/15 years ago and are reaping the rewards, whereas our FA is too interested in feathering its own nest and that of the top half dozen Premier League clubs. It's like they've got the attitude that English clubs do well in Europe so it's a given that the national side should do well, conveniently overlooking that those clubs' best players are all foreign ....

Not sure it is really that straightforward. France ploughs huge wadges of cash into youth development but had a poor tournament. The Netherlands were abysmal and they are similarly well focused on player development.

Also I am sure if someone digs up the figures England will have spent a lot more cash on youth development in the last ten years than Spain.

There are obviously a lot factors out there. Culture, coaching, career opportunities, competitions.

[roverandout]

18 on target? where did you hear that from? thats not true

[jim mk2]

They had 31 shots to our 8, Jim, it wasn't exactly a close contest. The gulf in class was there for all to see.

We weren't obliterated by scoreline but we were in every other department.

There are many ways of winning football matches - possession and shots on target mean nothing if you don't score.

England didn't "deserve" to go through on balance of play but they took the game to a penalty shoot-out which they could have won. They gave a good account of themselves overall and were better than the shambles at the 2010 World Cup.

[RoyRover]

This team wasn't hyped up at all. I dont think anyone really expected us to get through to the semis. Look at the Dutch. Thats hype.

It's full of the same players that have been hyped up in the past and have failed to deliver time after time after time. The likes of Terry, Parker, Gerrard and Rooney are put on a pedestal because they play in the Premiership. Even at this tournament there was an underlying feeling amongst much of the media that because England didn't have expectations, they could have expectations. The usual sort of self flaggelation and hyper critical analysis will ensue, despite the fact that nothing has changed from this morning to this evening. England were an average side that couldn't keep the ball, pass or be tactically aware before the game. But already on You're On Sky Sports (which granted isn't the best place to listen to intelligent football analysis) there are people tearing them to shreds.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

don't forget that italy played alot of long balls in the game looking for ballotelli so they were as bad as us at hoofball

I can remember the one that was given for a foul but the rest were straight balls over the top looking to create a chance. Yours were hopeful balls upfield....big difference.

I'm not one for statistics as, for example, the shots straight at the goal keeper are apparently better than say De Rossi hitting the post but they were still clearly the better team. The gulf in class was there for all to see. Imo Hodgson is just as culpable due to stupidly not putting someone on Pirlo. He should have known to do that anyway but it's how Croatia got a point against them.

[jim mk2]

It's full of the same players that have been hyped up in the past and have failed to deliver time after time after time. The likes of Terry, Parker, Gerrard and Rooney are put on a pedestal because they play in the Premiership. Even at this tournament there was an underlying feeling amongst much of the media that because England didn't have expectations, they could have expectations. The usual sort of self flaggelation and hyper critical analysis will ensue, despite the fact that nothing has changed from this morning to this evening. England were an average side that couldn't keep the ball, pass or be tactically aware before the game. But already on You're On Sky Sports (which granted isn't the best place to listen to intelligent football analysis) there are people tearing them to shreds.

Terry and Parker had excellent tournaments. Gerrard is not the player he was and Rooney is unfit. Of course the media focus on England - what do you expect them to do ? This is our national football team after all and people want it to succeed to and disappoined when it does not. Rein yourself in - the small-minded Celtic nation mentality does you no credit.

[roverandout]

we knew our limitations, they werent overhyped, we knew that these players weren't at the top end of the international spectrum bar one or two

[MarkBRFC71]

Not sure it is really that straightforward. France ploughs huge wadges of cash into youth development but had a poor tournament. The Netherlands were abysmal and they are similarly well focused on player development.

Also I am sure if someone digs up the figures England will have spent a lot more cash on youth development in the last ten years than Spain.

There are obviously a lot factors out there. Culture, coaching, career opportunities, competitions.

Have a read of these, should tell you some of what you need to know about why we're so far behind.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8688093.stm

http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/threads/243137-A-Spanish-Guide-To-Youth-Football

There's plenty more stuff about it out there, but it's clear that the Spanish Football Federation are far more committed to youth development than our FA.

[old darwen blue]

At least we won't get trashed by the Germans again!

[Commondore]

Uh huh.

They played like Steve Kean's Blackburn Rovers. To me that's disgusting.

How many goals did we concede last season again? England went in with keeping Italy from scoring as their first priority and succeeded, as I said earlier I think Italy could have played all night without getting on the scoreboard.

The only crticism I can throw at Hodgson right now is that he should have showed some balls and dropped Rooney, other than that Young and Milner offered nothing out wide and if your wide men are nonexistent your chances are going to be limited somewhat.

Agreed, Rooney looked incredibly unfit and was nowhere near being a threat going forward. Then again, it's not like Hodgson had an abundance of forwards to choose from...

Also, I think Young's penalty miss is an acceptable one (if such a thing exists), but Cole's was awful. It's the sort of penalty you'd expect someone with absolutely no attacking nous would take, extremely close to the goalkeeper and loose enough for him to get down and save comfortably.

[DE.]

How many goals did we concede last season again? England went in with keeping Italy from scoring as their first priority and succeeded, as I said earlier I think Italy could have played all night without getting on the scoreboard.

Yes, but was it a case of us stopping them from attacking effectively or the Italians just missing a fair few easy chances? They missed one where the bloke (De Rossi I think) was literally about 3 yards from goal and he sliced it wide FFS.

31 shots to 8, of which they had 18 on target and we had 4. And that's good just because the Italians had a shocking day when it came to finishing. OK then.

[adopted scouser]

All that bling, diamond earrings, chrome Lambos and £300 earphones and you couldn't hit the net from 12 yards. Ashley Cole, Ashley Young, you just got found out.

Look, we won our group but were clearly second best tonight. Despite incessant criticism from one poster on here I (and most of the commentary teams on the radio) think that Gerrard really put a shift in during this tournament. I'm not biased because of my username, been in Manchester for 8 years !.

Let the Scots and the Irish take the Mick, they didn't get anywhere (as usual)

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Terry and Parker had excellent tournaments. Gerrard is not the player he was and Rooney is unfit. Of course the media focus on England - what do you expect them to do ? This is our national football team after all and people want it to succeed to and disappoined when it does not. Rein yourself in - the small-minded Celtic nation mentality does you no credit.

Was Rooney fit at the last 2 World Cups as well then? Isn't England much more small minded? Dismissing most foreign players because they don't play in the Premier League and so on.

How many goals did we concede last season again? England went in with keeping Italy from scoring as their first priority and succeeded, as I said earlier I think Italy could have played all night without getting on the scoreboard.

Agreed, Rooney looked incredibly unfit and was nowhere near being a threat going forward. Then again, it's not like Hodgson had an abundance of forwards to choose from...

Also, I think Young's penalty miss is an acceptable one (if such a thing exists), but Cole's was awful. It's the sort of penalty you'd expect someone with absolutely no attacking nous would take, extremely close to the goalkeeper and loose enough for him to get down and save comfortably.

Each to their own I guess but a lack of finishing was the reason they didn't score. Sturridge and Defoe are two very good players. Missing the target (post/crossbar included) is the biggest crime possible in penalty taking. Strange how bad Cole's was as his one in the Champions League final was fantastic

All that bling, diamond earrings, chrome Lambos and £300 earphones and you couldn't hit the net from 12 yards. Ashley Cole, Ashley Young, you just got found out.

Look, we won our group but were clearly second best tonight. Despite incessant criticism from one poster on here I (and most of the commentary teams on the radio) think that Gerrard really put a shift in during this tournament. I'm not biased because of my username, been in Manchester for 8 years !.

Let the Scots and the Irish take the Mick, they didn't get anywhere (as usual)

Gerrard was good (nowhere near the likes of Iniesta, Pirlo and Schweinsteiger) until this game. He needs to be played behind a striker to be most effective.

We're not taking the mick we're telling it like it is. And we got as far as you did (we didn't win it either). It doesn't matter how far you get, the winners are all that matters. Yes I'm aware you have won the World Cup before I'm sure I have heard it mentioned somewhere.

[jim mk2]

Was Rooney fit at the last 2 World Cups as well then? Isn't England much more small minded? Dismissing most foreign players because they don't play in the Premier League and so on.

Who dismisses most foreign players because they don't play in the Premier League ?

[Tom]

Gerrard was as good as I've seen him in an England shirt the previous two games but thought tonight was a step too far for him.

The cramp early in the second half was odd, I think with his injuries the amount of games in the timeframe was too much. Think he will retire from international football within the next few days

[Paul Mellelieu]

We are rubbish.

[Commondore]

Yes, but was it a case of us stopping them from attacking effectively or the Italians just missing a fair few easy chances? They missed one where the bloke (De Rossi I think) was literally about 3 yards from goal and he sliced it wide FFS.

31 shots to 8, of which they had 18 on target and we had 4. And that's good just because the Italians had a shocking day when it came to finishing. OK then.

How many saves did Hart have to make? The two shots against the post were pretty much undefendable, apart from that I think England looked very solid defensively apart from their inability to put Balotelli in an offside position. I agree that there were a lot of last ditch defending as well, but that's part of defender's job despriptions and no one had to clear balls off the line or mow down a player with an open goal.

[RoyRover]

Terry and Parker had excellent tournaments. Gerrard is not the player he was and Rooney is unfit. Of course the media focus on England - what do you expect them to do ? This is our national football team after all and people want it to succeed to and disappoined when it does not. Rein yourself in - the small-minded Celtic nation mentality does you no credit.

Small minded Celtic nation mentality? We are discussing England aren't we? I'd happily discuss how bad Ireland, Scotland or Wales are in world football if that's what we were talking about. I won't be accused of having a small minded national mentality by someone from England. My point about the media focusing on England was that I hope that they don't go the other way now with their analysis and start the usual round of finger pointing and hyper critical self assessment. This England team isn't great. You know that. I know that. We all know that. They've done well to have done what they've done. Of course everyone wants their nation to do well, but will the Danes, Czechs, Croatians or the Poles be having the same amount of doom and gloom surrounding their teams eliminations? I doubt it.