[Archived] euro12 thread

[thenodrog]

My posts over the past few days concerning England I'm sure won't be appreciated by many but Scots are taught about all the despicable things the English used to inflict on us and we enjoy getting any comeuppance we can.

Your history teacher must be a direct descendent of Robert the Bruce. Hardians Wall was built to stop you buggers coming South in cowardly raiding parties not to stop us going North. Since you lot learned the foolishness of tweaking the Lions tail you've re-written history and become very embittered.

[JAL]

Thought the whole back four were absolutely excellent for England along with the goalkeeper, just dont think we could have asked of anymore from these guys so that has to be a positive to start from.

Moving onto the centre of midfield thought Parker and Gerrard played very well, it was just a pity that Gerrards legs went against Italy and that we didnt have the necessary quality to replace him when we needed to.

The wide players and the front two for me is where we lacked the qualities to push on and take the team onto greater things along with an additional quality central midfielder for the squad.

All in all England didnt lose which must be commended but as our history of the past forty years shows we fell short yet again.

[thenodrog]

While I like Hodgson and believe he should be given time, his substitution of Milner instead of Young looked bizarre and he never seemed to have a game plan to deal with Pirlo. As others have mentioned, his body language in the dugout is also poor.

i think rooney was supposed to be on him. if parker or gerrard had pressed him he would have picked us off even more. rooney had some good touches in tight spots last night but he's dumpy legged imo and was woefully out of shape last night. he might be better moving back into midfield if he gets any slower.

Not if Roy Hodgson had looked at it my way last week and employed some foresight. Fatty would have been on the bench, Gerrard should have been head to head with Pirlo and Jones and Parker could have broken em down in midfield.

Here......

Right having thought longer about this against Italy and the better teams I'd leave the GK and back 4 as they are (cos barring a lack of concentration against Sweden they have done well in the main) but drop FatBoy Wayne to the subs bench and save him for a last 20 impact role should it be necessary . He was too easily caught the other night when through on goal. If he can't be arsed to keep fit for this without Fergy on his case then he doesn't deserve to play a major role as far as I am concerned.

Gerrard could replace him in the attacking mid position with Phil Jones replacing Gerrard. Jones could dovetail defensively with Parker which would make for a much stronger defensive mid pairing, more strength in the air at both ends and which in turn would allow us to play the more attacking wing options should it be necessary late in the game. Walcott to replace Milner after 50 mins rather than 80 and similar with Downing / Oxlade Chamberlain with the lightweight Young. Young's only edge over those two is in winning dodgy free kicks around the pen area. Like the necessary requirement for all wags he goes down well.

Centre forward? Take your pick depending on the perceived weaknesses of the opposing centre halves.

If Hodgson will see it my way it could well be the making of him.

We might not have won but we'd have made more of a fist of it than playing naive 4-4-2 surrender monkey football.

[thenodrog]

All that bling, diamond earrings, chrome Lambos and £300 earphones and you couldn't hit the net from 12 yards. Ashley Cole, Ashley Young, you just got found out.

Look, we won our group but were clearly second best tonight. Despite incessant criticism from one poster on here I (and most of the commentary teams on the radio) think that Gerrard really put a shift in during this tournament. I'm not biased because of my username, been in Manchester for 8 years !.

Is that me Nick? I've been of the opinion Gerrard is massively overrated for years. I'm bang right too. Damned good sat afternoon club player but hardly a major international talent yet some insist he is a 'worldie'. Fair play to him though he's put in a decent shift this time although imo thats cos he hasn't had Lampard competing in the same position. Be interesting to see how things would have panned out if Hodgson had selected Lampard and dropped Gerrard. Might have been the international making of Frank too.

tbh I think the World Cup squad should we qualify would see both left on some sunkissed beach.

[JAL]

Would have thought that its far more sensible to play people in their familiar positions and formations than start asking them to play in a totally different way to what they are used to.

[thenodrog]

What a contrast between Thenodrog's brutally honest assessment and Jim's patriotic mumbo-jumbo.

Rooney, World Class? He's not even Economy Class.

Apparently (as with my opinions usually being proven right) that brutal honesty is a fault and frequently makes me unpopular on here.

btw Topman you haven't said which you prefer.

[Ianrally]

I agree with a lot of that, I suppose us old timers have seen it all before with other nations.

I wasn't impressed with Roy Boy at Rovers and I'm not impressed with him now. Strange team selection, Strange substitutions, Inabilty to change the course of a game in any way for at least 100 minutes ! Let's be honest if that game had been a boxing match the referee would have stopped it because we were taking too much punishment. Even poor England teams in the past didn't get battered to that extent. Where do we go fropm here ? I honestly don't know. As someone else said all the skill/ful creative players in the Prem come from abroad, the xbox generation just doesn't produce the Bryan Douglas, Tom Finney, Johhny Haynes, Bobby Charltons any more.

I too agree with most of Gordon's and Tyrone's view of things. Old timers view again I'm afraid.

As for Roy, I reserve judgment for now. Picking Rooney was a lose,lose situation. The press and TV pundits all called for the automatic return to the team for Rooney after his suspension even though he had not played a competative game for five or six weeks. His performance against France hardly merited his inclusion in the Italy game, and so it proved.

Young has been abysmal for the whole tournament and I feel he should have been the one to be substituted against Italy, as should Rooney rather than Wellbeck. Of course we all will have a different opinion, and that is mine for what it's worth.

I think there are to be some serious decisions to be taken at grass roots level with the standard of coaching of kids. There is an acute shortage of top quality coaches,and kids are encouraged that winning is all that matters at that level. The game is going to be awash with TV money, but precious little, I feel, will filter down to grass roots level. We are obsessed with the notion that club comes before country as far as money is concerned with regard to any long term plan for the future.

The likes of Bryan Douglas, Tom Finney, Johnny Haynes, etc etc, had they been around in this era, then I don't think any of them would have progresed beyond under 13 level. Discarded at the first hurdle as being too small and too lightweight.

Funny how any of the top premiership clubs fall over themselves to sign the likes of Silva or Modric and would wet themselves to get Iniesta or Messi now that they are all proven talents. Good job they weren't born as English kids or I fear we would never have seen them grace the game.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Believe me I don't do that at all. Would be like presuming the Daily Mail represents people's views. I used to live there and still do part time and generally, the ones who are country over club I find incredibly arrogant. Although admittedly less so after South Africa but I have spent my whole life dealing with them. I always appreciate not everyone is like that however.

Bitter is the wrong word. England has 50 million people, Scotland 5 million and Wales 3 miillion so I'm sure that would be expected. Are you talking about first 11 or squad.....in fact I would probably play Bellamy upfront in the team anyway. I think Hart can make too many mistakes (fairly common for a keeper of his age) and especially don't like when he parries the ball back into the 6 yard box. McGregor is an excellent keeper and might be tempted to play him. If it's a tournament then I don't see the point of starting Rooney. Richards would play right back but if Alan Hutton started to produce the form he displayed for Rangers in Europe especially that saw him move to Spurs for 9 million then I would play him. But Hutton is awful these days. If you watched Scotland games then a fit James McFadden would definitely get a game. And the manager would be Scottish haha. My posts over the past few days concerning England I'm sure won't be appreciated by many but Scots are taught about all the despicable things the English used to inflict on us and we enjoy getting any comeuppance we can.

That's fine then I thought you still meant you were in the top tier of football nations. I get the sense that a lot of you aren't like the standard England fans I would always meet. Who themselves would argue that they would win because of their top players and my doing a disservice point is based on the fact that 6-8 other top teams had just as good players and they would say things like "Gerrard and Lampard are better than any other central midfielders in the world". This was fans of all ages btw. We don't hate all things English, it's more just sport teams. Not the people as that would be racism I suppose. It's mostly done in jest anyway with a cheeky smile and it's really not just bitterness.

They do it in other countries so I'm sure they must see it as effective. The season would have to start earlier and finish later though surely. Unless they scrapped the Carling Cup. England's players did look unfit the longer the game wore on. Could be a variety of reasons. Other teams have players who play in the Premier League. It would be the first thing I looked at if I was Hodgson though. I can't see it happening but I hope he isn't sacked and replaced with Redknapp. And I hope he realises now that 4-4-2 isn't a good idea against the top sides.

Dear oh dear, why upon why do you choose to post on an English football clubs football message boards, given your obvious xenophobia and dislike of anything English. As someone has already posted , when you qualify yourselves you will have the right to diminish other national teams, until then.....

[Tom]

btw, WTF was Hart doing with those stupid faces last night? I bet the Italians thought he was a right plunker, especially as he had had his mates Gerrard and David James saying that he was "easily better" than Buffon and Casillas the day earlier. Seemed a bit too keen to speak to the media IMO. Good player but I hope he isn't getting to into his own hype. I guess it's a given that he thinks he's world class already as he plays for England...

Harts a good keeper but massively over rated in my opinion, great reaction shot stopper but his parrying is terrible and is suspect from distance, only luck prevented him costing us a few goals this tournament after poor parries from simple shots

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Scottish people in being bitter towards England shocker.

Qualify for a tournament, then start talking.

So England fans call their team average and it's the truth, Scotland fans do it and it's just bitterness. Like Benitez, I'm talking about facts.

It did look like Rooney was meant to stay on Pirlo. He did at the start and you could see him half-heartedly do it all game. And apparently Hart was shouting at him to do it once. I remember a Man U-Barca champions league final, I think it was the first one, when he originally stayed on Busquets but then left him and Barca started to control the midfield.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Dear oh dear, why upon why do you choose to post on an English football clubs football message boards, given your obvious xenophobia and dislike of anything English. As someone has already posted , when you qualify yourselves you will have the right to diminish other national teams, until then.....

I think the fact that I'm a Blackburn fan proves I don't dislike everything English. My posts are for the benefit of Scottish readers or perhaps Welsh or Irish. I don't diminish I tell it like it is, usually. There's not much shame in a nation of 5 million not qualifying for tournaments and therefore our opinion matters. Croatia (and Uruguay) have similar populations but there are exceptions to every rule. It's only the last 20 years or so that we haven't qualified often. We qualified for 5 World Cups between 1974 and 1990.

[adopted scouser]

Is that me Nick?

No not you pal, true his best days are behind him but I think he took the captain's role well in this tourno, and not in the next one.

I'm sure I'm the only one who thinks Rooney had been told by Hodgson to sing the national anthem (quite right too), and when he fluffed it (before the Ukraine game) Hodgson shook his head. Would have been a good 'third eye'

[T4E]

Scottish people in being bitter towards England shocker.

Qualify for a tournament, then start talking.

I take it none of the English will be commenting on the semi-final or final? After all you didn't qualify for them, which means you aren't entitled to an opinion?

[roversoutsider]

I take it none of the English will be commenting on the semi-final or final? After all you didn't qualify for them, which means you aren't entitled to an opinion?

+100

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

At least sometimes he can be funny. Unlike Lee Evans.

When ? He's as funny as being whipped.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

When ? He's as funny as being whipped.

Like once or twice. Jokes only Scots would get. I can't give examples it was ages ago I last watched him and I haven't often. Kevin Bridges is a very funny Scottish comedian I highly recommend him to people if they haven't heard of him.

[Exiled_Rover]

Harts a good keeper but massively over rated in my opinion, great reaction shot stopper but his parrying is terrible and is suspect from distance, only luck prevented him costing us a few goals this tournament after poor parries from simple shots

Nothing simple about any shot with the flyaway the pros use. Great keeper.

I take it none of the English will be commenting on the semi-final or final? After all you didn't qualify for them, which means you aren't entitled to an opinion?

Won't be commenting on them because I have no interest in them.

[T4E]

....and people say you lot are arrogant. Shocking.

[Tom]

No not you pal, true his best days are behind him but I think he took the captain's role well in this tourno, and not in the next one.

I'm sure I'm the only one who thinks Rooney had been told by Hodgson to sing the national anthem (quite right too), and when he fluffed it (before the Ukraine game) Hodgson shook his head. Would have been a good 'third eye'

Was it me? I've also been critical of Gerrard and he was outclassed last night but he has been our best player overall this tournament his passing has been great and led me to think he can prolong his career in a Tugay type role

T4E - i'll be watching with great interest, I always want England to do well but as a football fan much prefer watching international tournaments as a neutral relaxed, there is too much hype around any time we are in one (less so this time until the quarters which I thought would work in our favour and propel us to do something unexpected)

[Mattyblue]

....and people say you lot are arrogant. Shocking.

Behave, I don't know one Englishman that is 'arrogant' towards the national team, most people only show an interest in the national team around tournament time and that's to say how ###### they are.

Once again the media are not 'the English'.

ps maybe it's a Northern thing, self deprication and all that, the Southerners are a different breed.

[adopted scouser]

Was it me?

No pal

[Salgado Is A Hero]

ps maybe it's a Northern thing, self deprication and all that, the Southerners are a different breed.

That's a valid point to be fair. I think I saw someone point out on here not too long ago that Northerners have more in common with Scots than Southerners. A lot of my experience of ridiculous English fans are from the South to be fair.

[DE.]

They are a lot of ###### around here who think England are up there with Spain and Germany. Makes it more fun to argue, though

[T4E]

Behave, I don't know one Englishman that is 'arrogant' towards the national team, most people only show an interest in the national team around tournament time and that's to say how ###### they are.

Once again the media are not 'the English'.

ps maybe it's a Northern thing, self deprication and all that, the Southerners are a different breed.

So you don't think saying you have no interest on the tournament just because England are out is arrogant?

[Rovermatt]

Your history teacher must be a direct descendent of Robert the Bruce. Hardians Wall was built to stop you buggers coming South in cowardly raiding parties not to stop us going North. Since you lot learned the foolishness of tweaking the Lions tail you've re-written history and become very embittered.

Hadrian's wall of course being the brain child of foreign invaders...