[Archived] euro12 thread

[bazza]

I thought the ref was OK. He let a lot go. But for both sides.

How many times have we complained about refs being "card happy"?

[Ozz]

Good start, we were supposed to lose.

Here's a novel suggestion, get behind them ??

They don't read this stuff Nick and I doubt they'd care if they did. Didn't stop me screaming like Ned Flanders though when we scored.

[Steve Moss]

I was cheering for the Swedes, but Ukraine deserved the win.

Olsen was decent. He should be pleased with his performance.

[Robin]

fair result unfortunately

[DE.]

Olsen was decent. He should be pleased with his performance.

I thought he was really poor. Didn't get forward, looked very low on confidence... topped it all off at the end with a pretty sad dive.

[Harrier7]

I think I must be watching different games to all the TV pundits on ITV and BBC who seem to think England have nothing to fear against Sweden and the Ukraine. This in spite of both of them playing with pace, passion, control and dynamic attacking skills entirely lacking in our pedestrian squad. Oh well, let's hope I'm wrong.

[Baz]

Thought England did their usual and got gradually worse throughout the game.

If your going to play defensive then you have to break quickly and with purpose, we just did everything so slowly.

Just think we will struggle to come from behind against anyone, as we are very predictable.

Also thought the ref was poor.

[Audax]

Remember people were saying France is unbeaten in 22 games and some of those were against good teams, think they defeated Germany and Brazil both... 1st game jitters, Roy's real first game, lose the first game in these tournament's and you are really behind the 8 ball. So, think England had their moments, well done Lescott, ah, Milner definitely had a chance, some goalkeeper's might have made a save vs. France's goal but something else could have gone in, I didn't really notice the officiating too much 'cept for a few spills. Can't really talk about facing a more "potent" attack, Nasri and Benzema were in there, seemed pretty darn potent to me....don't think Carroll came in, think we needed that or Walcott needed more time in there. It gives hope but Sweden and the host team Ukraine will be up for their matches, face it, everyone thinks France and England are the big favourites to go through but Ukraine has one down. 5 points probably enough to advance.

[david_daft]

The whole tournament has been dire so far, hopefully just a slow start and things will pick up significantly.

So far nobody has played much better than England just did though so its mildly encouraging.

I disagree Dave, really enjoyed most of the games so far.

It's not been as defensive as I imagined it would be.

In fact I've enjoyed the games so far more than I enjoyed the entire, last, world cup.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

We're poor in midfield, we've not got one player in midfield who can consistently beat a man with the ball at their feet. Milner's not international class neither is Parker, Oxlade-chamberlain is only a kid with a lot to learn, he takes the wrong option most of the time. It reminded me of watching rovers last season, the only way we look likely to score is via a set piece.

[Joar]

I sense a few rose tinted glasses among the English here. Pundits saying "nothing to fear" from Sweden and Ukraine, but I think that's unfounded optimism. True a draw against France is good, but France were walking right into the English tactics by not moving the ball out to the flanks at any point, but constantly probing for a ball through the centre.

Ukraine on the other hand have Yarmolenko and Konoplyanka hugging the touchline until they get the ball, then drifting inwards with especially Gusev coming on the overlap. Then in the box they have Shevchenko who can score from anything, or at some point Milevskiy who is a big target man. They'll get crosses in, and if England play as deep and narrow against them it could give them problems.

Sweden 'always' do well against England in tournaments, but people seem to forget this. Also Wilhelmsson could cause real problems if Johnson i roaming forward too much. I also wouldn't give Källström too many chances to shoot from 20-25 yards out the way Nasri was allowed to do. Källström packs a punch.

This group, and the Russia group seem the poorest in terms of quality for me so far. Not that there's been much quality from any team so far (except Russia).

Summary of tonights teams:

France: Tactically inept

England: Toothless

Sweden: Flatfooted

Ukraine: Andriy Shevchenko

I must say I think Hodgson is thinking in the right lines. With the players he has going for quick counter attacking football is smart. However, if there is noone running forward after winning the ball, it's rather pointless isn't it? If he gets it right it could be interesting for you guys though as no other teams seem to be in great form atm.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Thought England did well today against a talented French side. Having said that I thought Welbeck's ball retention was awful and milner is not international class. If we're going to play 1 up front, surely Caroll would be the better option to start, bring the likes of Welbeck/defoe on for last 20 mins.

We look a side that the better sides will find hard to beat...unfortunately we don't look like we'll have enough about us to break down the more average sides. Wouldn't be surprised if we draw all 3 group games and go out.

[Amo]

Good start, we were supposed to lose.

Here's a novel suggestion, get behind them ??

GET BEHIND THEM FFS!

[Harrier7]

GET BEHIND THEM FFS!

Why, what difference does it make if they can't hear us over there? If they really start to give us something to get excited about we'll all say well done, but I can't say I'm optimistic. Agree about Carroll. He would have given their dodgy centre backs and goalie something to think about if we had been whipping the crosses in.

[Baz]

Why, what difference does it make if they can't hear us over there? If they really start to give us something to get excited about we'll all say well done, but I can't say I'm optimistic. Agree about Carroll. He would have given their dodgy centre backs and goalie something to think about if we had been whipping the crosses in.

Agree we should have brought Carroll on. However my doubts would be his over physicality, which is effective in England, but may just give away free kick after free kicks in internationals. In truth without Rooney we look pretty average up front.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

I think I must be watching different games to all the TV pundits on ITV and BBC who seem to think England have nothing to fear against Sweden and the Ukraine. This in spite of both of them playing with pace, passion, control and dynamic attacking skills entirely lacking in our pedestrian squad. Oh well, let's hope I'm wrong.

True they can't resist building them up no matter what happens. Yarmolenko and the other Ukraine winger whose name escapes me played really well and can see them causing England problems. As for Sweden I'm not as sure but like someone else pointed out I wouldn't be giving the likes of Kallstrom the same time to shoot that Nasri got.

I never read too much into the opening games. Despite all the qualifying games and friendlies, the actual tournament itself is a different matter entirely with the added pressure etc and teams often vary their tactics after these games. Holland and Spain especially, will this time.

Had Ibrahimovic to score first/2-2 draw so was gutted when Elmander missed that chance at the end. Olsson played slightly below average imo.....and with Shevchenko's 1st goal he should have been tighter to the winger and then closed him down better.

[Amo]

Oh come on, according to FIFA, England are the sixth best side in the world and miles better than the French.

[Sparky Marky]

Olsen was decent. He should be pleased with his performance.

Errm..it amazes me how opinions can differ so much. Olsson looked every inch a championship player tonight. He may aswell been in blue and white halves. Made no effort at all to stop the guy crossing for shev to head in, hoofing it to nobody and a general lightweight. ...Id say flog him if I thought he'd be replaced properly.

[Rovermatt]

Ukraine have the upper hand in the group for now at least. They were ok tonight but I can't see them getting much joy against England's stodgy defence and midfield. That has 1-0 England written all over it.

Any sign of any 'Kean Out' banners?

[Lathund]

I think I must be watching different games to all the TV pundits on ITV and BBC who seem to think England have nothing to fear against Sweden and the Ukraine. This in spite of both of them playing with pace, passion, control and dynamic attacking skills entirely lacking in our pedestrian squad. Oh well, let's hope I'm wrong.

I saw nothing of that in this Swedish team. A high tempo, a lot of back and forth, entertaining for the neutral, but none of that says anything about the quality. A poor performance, and with us (Sweden) being virtually eliminated already I don't see how that will change.

[Baz]

Yeah Sweden a bit like the Irish, got 2 games left and really need to win both now to go through, and those against the higher seeded teams in the group. It gonna be tough for you now. You also have to hope Ukraine now win both their remaining group games. Can see you beating England, just cannot see you beating France.

[Veevs]

Was utterly pessimistic about the England match today and thought Sweden would be much better. But I liked how England played, it was not so fancy dan and heartless as previous adventures and seemed extremely organised. A little worried about general fitness though, in comparisson to most other fixtures the lads out there really looked whacked at the end and the options on the bench limited.

As for Sweden I do hope Elm stays out of position for the next game and Elmander stays on the bench (not a great player but better than Rosenburg playing with Ibra) they where worse than I expected. Ukraine as hosts always are going to be wild cards.. will see what happens, still not expecting England to go far but the organised approach might be boring but is efficient with our currently limited squad (Roll on the world cup where I reckon some of the kids coming through will shine).

[thenodrog]

Was utterly pessimistic about the England match today and thought Sweden would be much better. But I liked how England played, it was not so fancy dan and heartless as previous adventures and seemed extremely organised. A little worried about general fitness though, in comparisson to most other fixtures the lads out there really looked whacked at the end and the options on the bench limited.

Only my opinion but given that he has been made captain and therefore must play Gerrard's only position on a pitch is the roving role in the hole just behind the sriker. Goodness knows where his position is once Rooney returns.... a convenient injury might be necessary. Behind Gerrard I'd have paired Parker with Jones after the excellent demolition job they did against the Spanish. Hodgson would then have to pick two wide players to suit the opposition. Gerrard just didn't gel naturally with Parker and seemed average at best in his defensive duties. No greater example than seeing the danger of Nasri's run too late and even worse turning his back on Nasri's goal bound shot and swerving to the right in doing so. If he had 'manned up' and approached full sqaure he might have taken it in the balls but he'd have stopped the goal.

Against technically superior teams the need is to stop and frustrate the opposition playmakers by not getting too many men in front of the ball, being patient and trying and catch them on the break before upping the ante in the last 20 mins hopefully when the opponents race is run. To be successful the team needs to emulate Chelsea's performances in the CL sf and f. It aint pretty but it can be pretty effective.

[Commondore]

Sweden's game against Ukraine was the most painful loss I've witnessed since Liverpool earlier this season, but this time I was actually at the stadium to really soak up all the humiliation... There was way too much distance between defenders, midfielders and strikers which led to long ball after long ball against the hapless striker Rosenberg. Things got a bit better in the second half when the midfielders came down to take care of the passing from our own half, but Sweden kept showing a complete inability to defend as a team (a constant under new manager Hamrén). Especially the second goal was beyond pathetic, Zlatan didn't care about his defensive duties and gave Schevchenko a free header while full-back Lustig (stuck on the bench at Celtic...) didn't do the one thing he was supposed to; Stay at the near post. I thought Ukraine looked very weak and will struggle to get any more points in this tournament, which means Sweden could go through by beating England and then drawing with France or the other way around. And while I revel in such extremely unlikley hopes I'll go to Kharkiv tomorrow to see Germany-Holland, should be a good way to lick the wounds from yesterday.

[K-Hod]

Gerrard and Parker were both knackered by the end.

Gerrard simply has to play behind a striker, as he hasn't got the legs for CM anymore IMO! Young out wide, as he's probably our best crosser, and Milner and Parker in the middle.