[Archived] Chaos, Confusion And General Mismanagement

[thenodrog]

So we are all agreed then that the asset-stripping theory is completely bogus as it is completely contradicted by the asset-turnover theory.

Wrong imo. You are thinking of the owners and management as a single entity. The Slumdogs are the asset strippers whilst the Fat Controller and Billy Liar are skimming the deals. Started with self confessed Sam fan EHD providing them with the perfect excuse to be elbowed out and leaving room for a n other carrying a fat brown envelope to come in. It's gone on and on since.....

"Your excellent majesty. Mother of all things most holy. Your serene highnessness ...... I am sorry but Nelsen/ Samba/ Salgado / EHD / etc etc have been criticising your running of the club as well as taking the p1ss out of Balaji's pony tail again and have becomeg rotten apples in the squad barrel. They are turning the younger players thoughts against you... can I have your permission to replace them? I know of another player just as good but on smaller wages who wants to come and play for us. "

"If you think thats best then of course you can Steve".

Kerching!

[47er]

I suppose being debt free and having four players sign for us in a week isn't considered good.

Mind you, not defending the Venkys, but it seems to go this way.

"18 million debt?! Right, I'll believe that and condemn the Venkys for dragging us into debt! Wait, the club said they have managed to pay off the debt?! I'll choose to disbelieve that and conclude that they are lying!"

Or "They say they're going to sign 4 players this week? What a load of tosh! I'll believe the stuff I hear about them asset-stripping the club and selling all our players instead!" And when they do sign 4 players: "Pfft! Those players aren't great. 2 players over 35, one striker with a scoring record worse than Jason Roberts and 1 youngster who had no experience in the Premiership and hence will be useless to us in the Championship!"

They may be liars, particularly the ones where they promised us a cup and a top 5 finish, so we can disbelieve that one, but like I said, it's up to you guys to selectively believe whatever you hear and disregard the rest. I don't know......it's come to a point where everyone just decides to believe half of the stuff we hear and disregard the other half. While that in itself isn't a bad thing, it becomes unbalanced when the half you believe is purely bad and the other half you disbelieve is purely good. I mean, if you're going to disbelieve their statement about being debt free, why not disbelieve the statement that they have debt in the first place? Since the information comes from the same source.

I see! The stuff about Venkys is evenly divided between good and bad and we just pick on the 50% that's bad and ignore the 50% that's good? Is that it?

Where's the good news that evens out the fact that WE ARE RELEGATED? And that's just for starters!

The posers on here who pretend to be the wise moderates pitted against the irrational majority make me heave.

[Black Burn]

I see! The stuff about Venkys is evenly divided between good and bad and we just pick on the 50% that's bad and ignore the 50% that's good? Is that it?

Where's the good news that evens out the fact that WE ARE RELEGATED? And that's just for starters!

The posers on here who pretend to be the wise moderates pitted against the irrational majority make me heave.

Maybe you should have read the later posts and you'll understand what my actual question was......

Not that it matters, everyone else has already kindly explained everything to me.

For the record, I think this was my real question:

Again I reiterate that I am not happy or pleased with the new signings. I'm not displeased or disappointed either. I'm just looking at it from a neutral point of view, like as in....."hey, the present looks better than what the doomsayers were predicting a month ago". If you guys don't believe the debt is gone then you have good reason to. I'm just curious why (for example when both news appear in the same newspaper website yet you only believe one of them), and grateful that you guys actually explained it to me. Since I live in Asia and the only way I can get hold of news is through the Internet instead of having local contacts or in-the-knows like most of you guys.

Basically I was asking why you guys believe one side of the story and dismissing the other. I know you have good reason to, I was asking for that reason. And before someone answers, the others have already explained it to me, so thanks but it's done and dusted. Let's um......move on to the next topic regarding Chaos, Confusion and General Mismanagement and leave my original post behind.

[Miker]

Wrong imo. You are thinking of the owners and management as a single entity. The Slumdogs are the asset strippers whilst the Fat Controller and Billy Liar are skimming the deals. Started with self confessed Sam fan EHD providing them with the perfect excuse to be elbowed out and leaving room for a n other carrying a fat brown envelope to come in. It's gone on and on since.....

"Your excellent majesty. Mother of all things most holy. Your serene highnessness ...... I am sorry but Nelsen/ Samba/ Salgado / EHD / etc etc have been criticising your running of the club as well as taking the p1ss out of Balaji's pony tail again and have becomeg rotten apples in the squad barrel. They are turning the younger players thoughts against you... can I have your permission to replace them? I know of another player just as good but on smaller wages who wants to come and play for us. "

"If you think thats best then of course you can Steve".

Kerching!

Except that not all the transfers have been done by SEM/Kentaro, which makes that theory completely bogus, unless you are suggesting that the Raos are being used to feed money to every agency in the world?

It's not the first time our better players have wanted out and we've been forced to sell and that was even while being moderately successful under Hughes in the Premier League. Since then we've had a number of problems at the club, even before Venky's came along, so is it any surprise that some players were looking to have their footballing future elsewhere? There is no need to come up with conspiracy theories for why most of our players left or were sold. Emerton wanted to go back to Australia for a while, Samba had wanted out for a very long time, Jones had his release clause triggered and wanted to join United as well, Kalinic desperately wanted out.

[Mattyblue]

What problems were they then? I thought we were a well run, small town club consitently finishing in the top half of the worlds's biggest league and reaching cup semi finals whilst enjoying our biggest crowds since the 90s.

Samba, Nelsen, Salgado, Roberts would have stayed till May pre-Venky's. Those 4 players would have made all the difference.

No conspiracy, just a sad indictement of the complete disgrace that has been the last 18 months.

[Exiled in Toronto]

What problems were they then? I thought we were a well run, small town club consitently finishing in the top half of the worlds's biggest league and reaching cup semi finals whilst enjoying our biggest crowds since the 90s.

Samba, Nelsen, Salgado, Roberts would have stayed till May pre-Venky's. Those 4 players would have made all the difference.

No conspiracy, just a sad indictement of the complete disgrace that has been the last 18 months.

I think you missed off the huge benefit of having been put up for sale by disinterested owners who withdrew support from our most successful manager since Dagleish by allocating us no transfer budget, who then engaged a highly dubious agent to sell us to the first shysters who ponied up the money.

[K-Hod]

I think you missed off the huge benefit of having been put up for sale by disinterested owners who withdrew support from our most successful manager since Dagleish by allocating us no transfer budget, who then engaged a highly dubious agent to sell us to the first shysters who ponied up the money.

The part that many conveniently overlook.

[Mattyblue]

I don't overlook it at all. The Walker's sold us down the river and the fact they were in cahoots with SEM and therfore Kean says it all about the 'Trust', but pre sale, we were an absolute model on how to run a PL club without financial backing.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I don't overlook it at all. The Walker's sold us down the river and the fact they were in cahoots with SEM and therfore Kean says it all about the 'Trust', but pre sale, we were an absolute model on how to run a PL club without financial backing.

I disagree. The stars we were selling each close season to balance the books were not coming from a never-ending supply, because our academy was producing nothing for the first team. They were coming from the very finite pot of excellent signings made by one manager who had bogged off in disgust. It was not sustainable for much longer.

[Mattyblue]

We'll never know.

But under the previous managment (dugout and boardroom), I always compared us to the sides coming up, their players and wage bills, as well as adding in to mix sides that either always struggle, or the team that just has a poor season, i didn't feel we were in much danger short or even medium term..

[Pedro]

What problems were they then? I thought we were a well run, small town club consitently finishing in the top half of the worlds's biggest league and reaching cup semi finals whilst enjoying our biggest crowds since the 90s.

Samba, Nelsen, Salgado, Roberts would have stayed till May pre-Venky's. Those 4 players would have made all the difference.

No conspiracy, just a sad indictement of the complete disgrace that has been the last 18 months.

I see the other guy's point in that in recent years, Santa Cruz feigned injury then got a mega-money move, Bentley smirked like a Cheshire cat in the press conference when Hughes had gone and he was finally free to go to Spurs, McCarthy rocked the boat for months when he didn't get to team up with Jose, Bellamy quickly jumped ship after a year...there are loads of other cases because despite everything, we are only a moderately sized club in a miserable area and semi-finals and top-ten finishes don't really give you medals, enjoyment or a lasting legacy.

In terms of those 4 players mentioned, Samba did want out, spat it and went on strike when we needed him, I have a lot of time for Roberts but he was a very limited talent on a bloody good wage - but who would he replace in the team, Hoilett or Yakubu? Could his impact have matched theirs? I don't think so.

Nelsen - was he crocked or not?? Definitely was at first but then he suddenly emerged on the bench at Spurs! Absolutely missed him.

Despite his martrydom, Salgado was getting it from many a vocal, toothless fan and his legs had gone, but wasn't helped out by Kean's tactics or Hoiletts lack of tracking back.

Would stronger management have forced them to stay or kept them happy enough to play - possibly/probably.

[Miker]

We'll never know.

But under the previous managment (dugout and boardroom), I always compared us to the sides coming up, their players and wage bills, as well as adding in to mix sides that either always struggle, or the team that just has a poor season, i didn't feel we were in much danger short or even medium term..

I don't know why because our business model wasn't very sustainable and high risk. It nearly fell through with Ince and I am certain that had we gone down then we would still be losing the same players we are now, but without making the signings we are.

[RoyRover]

Nowt to do with logic and all to do with agents fees. No in's and outs means no commision hence why players have been forced out to make room for replacements each carrying a bounty. The club is in the hands of spivs.

Very true. Although you could argue that their logic is that this is an ok why to operate transfers, putting profits over results. Every last one of those enabling this to happen are the lowest form of putrid mess imaginable. I would love someone to put it to Kean though about letting experienced players go while we are in the Premiership, getting relegated and then paying a fortune in wages to experienced players in an attempt to get back to Premiership when don't have the Premier League TV income to support these big wages and see what his answer would be. Actually I can see what his answer would be in my head and it makes me angry.

[jim mk2]

I disagree. The stars we were selling each close season to balance the books were not coming from a never-ending supply, because our academy was producing nothing for the first team. They were coming from the very finite pot of excellent signings made by one manager who had bogged off in disgust. It was not sustainable for much longer.

Conveniently forgetting that even with disinterested owners and their "shyster" successors and next to no transfer budget we still had in place a very good manager with an excellent track record in keeping sides in the top flight and experienced people in the boardroom to help him. It was perfectly sustainable if the "shysters" had left them all in place.

[Steve Moss]

Nelsen - was he crocked or not?? Definitely was at first but then he suddenly emerged on the bench at Spurs! Absolutely missed him.

Entirely down to Kean.

I think if he had kept the Samba-Nelsen partnership alive by bringing Nelsen back into the side, then Samba may have been talked around and we would have clawed our way to survival.

[Miker]

Nelsen and Salgado were the only 2 players that we genuinely handled badly. Salgado did not deserve the sort of treatment he got and it was an absolute disgrace. The story with Nelsen is a complete mystery, especially as he hasn't said anything about it either. We needed him badly though and I think we potentially missed him more than Samba last season.

Conveniently forgetting that even with disinterested owners and their "shyster" successors and next to no transfer budget we still had in place a very good manager with an excellent track record in keeping sides in the top flight and experienced people in the boardroom to help him. It was perfectly sustainable if the "shysters" had left them all in place.

IMO, this is where it all went wrong. After sacking Sam they would have faced a mutiny from both the players and the board of directors (not to mention the backlash from fans), which they probably weren't expecting and I think that had a snowball effect creating more and more chaos with time. I have rarely felt the amount of anger and disbelief that I did when I first heard about that decision.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Conveniently forgetting that even with disinterested owners and their "shyster" successors and next to no transfer budget we still had in place a very good manager with an excellent track record in keeping sides in the top flight and experienced people in the boardroom to help him. It was perfectly sustainable if the "shysters" had left them all in place.

They shouldn't have been here in the first place to make any decisions. We were told that the sale was being handled by top city advisors to find someone better able to carry on Jack's legacy than, err, the organisation specifically and solely responsible for carrying on Jack's legacy. If people want to get hung up about us being lied to, this was the mother of all whoppers. And none of these fine people noticed that the sleazebag magicing up oddball buyers with no discernable interest in or experience of football was the agent of the first team coach.

Plus your point is moot: if they had been sober, thoughtful businesspeople putting the best interests of the club first by keeping things as they were, they would never have been paraded in front of the grasping Trust by the Prince of Darkness.

[Stuart]

I can't work out if some posters have come out of the woodwork, or if the tone of the mb is changing.

There seems to be more goading recently of anyone who is still anti-Venkys/Kean - as though they have now earned a second chance.

It's amazing the effect that a couple of signings can have on fickle fans.

[Mattyblue]

It has been and always will be the same every summer Stuart.

New people in the boardroom and new signings ensure optimism abounds for some folk.

Results have to be consistently dreadful for some fans to see the big picture, off field stuff? Pah! Remember the slaughtering protester got after the Arsenal win?

Just wait for the 'you hate Kean more than you love Rovers, he deserves 10 games with his new players' if we manage to beat Hull.

[Stuart]

It has been and always will be the same every summer Stuart.

New people in the boardroom and new signings ensure optimism abounds for some folk.

Results have to be consistently dreadful for some fans to see the big picture, off field stuff? Pah! Remember the slaughtering protester got after the Arsenal win?

Just wait for the 'you hate Kean more than you love Rovers, he deserves 10 games with his new players' if we manage to beat Hull.

Indeed. I remember the Arsenal game well. One of many protest games which ended without defeat - debunking yet another theory.

[ultrablue]

I too have noticed the number of people who, whilst professing to be anti-Kean and Venkys, suddenly feel new optimism, appearing on here. It's worrying justhow easy it is to win some over to at least giving him 10 games or whatever. I was one of those who, when he first got the job, thought he deserved a chance to show us what he could do, but it soon became fiarly obvious that what he could do was take us down. He narrowly avoidedit the first time round and completed the task at the second attempt. There is zero chance he has learnt anything because he doesn't want to so if he gets 10 games at the start fo the season we will already be relegated. Why is that so hard for some to see?

Sorry this gumboots talking - haven't yet adjusted to the fact that my son keeps logging me out and himself in!

[patrickvalery]

I must be reading different topics to everyone else then. All i have read is

"Murphy / Best / Gomes is a good signing, but we won't see the best of them whilst Coco / Baldy / Numbnuts / KEANSCUM / Eggman / Buffoon / Incompetent waste of of human organs / Kean is in charge".

I don't think i've seen many posts where the poster has suggested he be given a second chance. I felt that it was almost unanimously agreed that he was the big problem at Rovers. I think some have dared show some positivity towards Murphy and / or Best in terms of what they bring to the table. But apart from the odd Dingle or some whippersnapper trolling, i must have overlooked the upturn in Kean sympathisers.

[Mattyblue]

You're right PV re Kean, but as we've seen before a couple of wins will bring them back out the woodwork.

[PAFELL]

I don't overlook it at all. The Walker's sold us down the river and the fact they were in cahoots with SEM and therfore Kean says it all about the 'Trust', but pre sale, we were an absolute model on how to run a PL club without financial backing.

Interesting you bring Kean into the selling of the club to venkys. It is obvious walkers sold the club down the river. If Kean was involved in the takeover - would that mean Sam also. After all he brought Kean to the club.

Read many comments that Kean may own a percentage of the club. Yet nobody has put up any evidence to show that. It is not illegal for a manager to have part ownership of a club.

It is illegal for an agent to own any part of a club. But not a manager.

[patrickvalery]

You think? I can't see how anyone can possibly give him that opportunity anymore. Ive never known anyone burn so many bridges. I'd be amazed if more than a handful were willing to give him a fair crack at things anymore. I consider myself to have given him more time than most and i'll be honest, some of the protests (I'm thinking Bolton) didn't sit easily with me. But it became clear beyond any doubt whatsoever that he was out of his depth around October / November time last year. This, coupled with the underhand goings on at Rovers is surely enough for even the most blinkered to write him off? But, saying all that, i guess you could be right. There are nowt so queer as folk after all.