[Archived] Chaos, Confusion And General Mismanagement

[Mattyblue]

I don't need to sneer, they are all liars.

And now we see wages of 30k+ being shelled out, these will be paid for out of Venky's own pocket will they?

[bob fleming]

You can believe him or you can sneer about how the whole lot of them are liars, that's up to you.

Thanks.

They'rve proven themselves time and time again to be a bunch of liars. So with that in mind why would anyone think otherwise? Care to explain?

By the way, what "good things"?? I take it you are referring to free pies at Wolves rather than the new levels of crippling debt, the assembly of Keans drinking club by way of a management structure and general incompetent "confusion"?

[patrickvalery]

By the way, what "good things"??

Bob, don't be such a drama queen! There have been lots of good things / high points / magical moments. Call them what you will.

My personal favourite was when i saw the Rao's snuggled up under that beautiful tartan blanket in the directors box. It was at that moment, whilst looking at their enthused faces, like a child at Christmas, that i realised these people were serious business men and women who had fallen head over heels in love with the club, the town, the fans and the climate. They were in this for the long haul and by hook or by crook they would lead us into a glorious new era.

Three cheers for the Venky's!!!

[Black Burn]

I suppose being debt free and having four players sign for us in a week isn't considered good.

Mind you, not defending the Venkys, but it seems to go this way.

"18 million debt?! Right, I'll believe that and condemn the Venkys for dragging us into debt! Wait, the club said they have managed to pay off the debt?! I'll choose to disbelieve that and conclude that they are lying!"

Or "They say they're going to sign 4 players this week? What a load of tosh! I'll believe the stuff I hear about them asset-stripping the club and selling all our players instead!" And when they do sign 4 players: "Pfft! Those players aren't great. 2 players over 35, one striker with a scoring record worse than Jason Roberts and 1 youngster who had no experience in the Premiership and hence will be useless to us in the Championship!"

They may be liars, particularly the ones where they promised us a cup and a top 5 finish, so we can disbelieve that one, but like I said, it's up to you guys to selectively believe whatever you hear and disregard the rest. I don't know......it's come to a point where everyone just decides to believe half of the stuff we hear and disregard the other half. While that in itself isn't a bad thing, it becomes unbalanced when the half you believe is purely bad and the other half you disbelieve is purely good. I mean, if you're going to disbelieve their statement about being debt free, why not disbelieve the statement that they have debt in the first place? Since the information comes from the same source.

[47er]

Member since June 2011! Perhaps you never knew better times or, more likely, you're on a wind-up.

[Black Burn]

Member since June 2011! Perhaps you never knew better times or, more likely, you're on a wind-up.

Lurker since 2002, I think. Muahahaha! I was celebrating with you guys when we won the League Cup in 2002 with Graeme Souness, irritated when he left us for Newcastle, overjoyed when Mark Hughes brought us back to the giddy heights of UEFA Cup (now Europa) only to groan in disappointment when we crashed out, worried when Paul Ince lost those games before getting sacked and replaced by Sam Allardyce, whom I wasn't a fan of but I stuck to supporting the team despite his longball tactics and was relieved when we didn't get relegated and almost reached Hughes's level again, slammed my forehead against the wall when it was announced Steve Kean would be the new manager, enjoyed that 3-1 victory over Liverpool before everything went downhill. For the record, my favorite games of all time include the 4-3 victory over Manchester United in 2006 where David Bentley scored a hat-trick and Mark Hughes was still in charge (incidentally I've heard rumors of us talking to Bentley in the hopes of bringing him back).

You're right, I wasn't here when Blackburn Rovers won the Premiership title in 1995, so that makes me a relatively new member. But I'm just saying all that to prove that I'm not winding anyone up and that my decision to finally get an account and post here instead of hiding in the shadows to lurk is the reason why I'm here since June 2011 instead of much earlier.

I agree that there were much better times during the past, especially with Mark Hughes at the helm (I've no right to talk about the Kenny Daglish and champion days since I wasn't a fan back then) but I don't want to despair and look at everything through gloom tinted glasses. Rather put some rosy lenses on instead.

[Kelbo]

I suppose being debt free and having four players sign for us in a week isn't considered good.

Mind you, not defending the Venkys, but it seems to go this way.

"18 million debt?! Right, I'll believe that and condemn the Venkys for dragging us into debt! Wait, the club said they have managed to pay off the debt?! I'll choose to disbelieve that and conclude that they are lying!"

Or "They say they're going to sign 4 players this week? What a load of tosh! I'll believe the stuff I hear about them asset-stripping the club and selling all our players instead!" And when they do sign 4 players: "Pfft! Those players aren't great. 2 players over 35, one striker with a scoring record worse than Jason Roberts and 1 youngster who had no experience in the Premiership and hence will be useless to us in the Championship!"

They may be liars, particularly the ones where they promised us a cup and a top 5 finish, so we can disbelieve that one, but like I said, it's up to you guys to selectively believe whatever you hear and disregard the rest. I don't know......it's come to a point where everyone just decides to believe half of the stuff we hear and disregard the other half. While that in itself isn't a bad thing, it becomes unbalanced when the half you believe is purely bad and the other half you disbelieve is purely good. I mean, if you're going to disbelieve their statement about being debt free, why not disbelieve the statement that they have debt in the first place? Since the information comes from the same source.

Same source, no, it comes from companies house where it was proven the debt was there in the first place, they will have to, by law, file the next set of accounts soon, we will see where the debts are and if or not the money for transfers is out of Venkys pocket or Venkys subsidiary company loans!!!

[Mattyblue]

To be honest Black Burn I don't give a flying one if I'm 'unbalanced', these people have wrecked my football club.

I don't selectively believe/disbelieve anytihng, I look at facts, have they had a positive net spend? No, have they removed our acciamed infrastructure? Yes, Did they cause our relegation? Yes, have they lost us thousands of supporters? Yes, have they sacked Steve Kean? No, therefore they obviously STILL don't want the best for the football club.

So, no I don't trust them and yes I think they are liars

[Black Burn]

To be honest Black Burn I don't give a flying one if I'm 'unbalanced', these people have wrecked my football club.

I don't selectively believe/disbelieve anytihng, I look at facts, have they had a positive net spend? No, have they removed our acciamed infrastructure? Yes, Did they cause our relegation? Yes, have they lost us thousands of supporters? Yes, have they sacked Steve Kean? No, therefore they obviously STILL don't want the best for the football club.

So, no I don't trust them and yes I think they are liars

Actually, that was my point. If we don't trust them and if they are liars, let's just ignore everything they say, good and bad.

[patrickvalery]

Why are you so keen to criticise the fans on this issue? Yes they have delivered 4 players in a week, but that doesn't mean anything until they show their worth on the pitch.

I appreciate there is a lot of scaremongering which goes on in some quaters. but don't tar everyone with the same brush. Most deal in facts and are intelligent enough to form their own opinions based on what they see. Venky's have mismanaged Rovers on such a grand scale that every fan is perfectly within their rights to view them cautiously. I am afraid they have to earn our trust. And because of the sheer volume of short sighted and bizzarre decisions they have made, they will have to go over and above usual measures to get the majority back on side. Even then there will be those who have been so hurt (and i don't use that word lightly) that they will never follow Rovers whilst Venky's are in charge.

The swift approach to player recruitment this season is very welcome. However, they are as yet unproven at Championship level. The development of a back room structure is good news. However, they are not overwhelming personalities and in most cases are chums with the manager and PR guru Agnew. The appointment of a 'football man' at board level is prudent. However, why did it have to be a Malaysian football pundit with a penchant for controversy?

You see, they might be seemingly correcting some of their errors, but there are an awful lot of 'howevers' and 'buts'. They might have got away with some of these early in their tenure, but because of their history for a good old fashioned cock-up, everything they do is rightly viewed with scepticism.

In my book they've got one hell of a long way to go in appeasing me.

[Black Burn]

Why are you so keen to criticise the fans on this issue? Yes they have delivered 4 players in a week, but that doesn't mean anything until they show their worth on the pitch.

Not criticizing anybody, I'm just saying let's either believe everything they say or disbelieve everything they say. I'm not sure the 4 players will be a success, but that isn't my point. I'm just wondering why people go "hey! I'm going to believe the guy who said that they are going to asset-strip our club!" while at the same time thinking "they said they'll buy 4 players? That's rubbish!"

Something like that. Ah well, miscommunication, seems like I wrote it in a critical manner without checking through it. Sorry about that.

Basically, I'm wondering why people insist on believing the news that we have debt, yet at the same time refuse to believe the news that we have fully paid off the debt, despite both articles being published in say, the Lancashire Telegraph. Either you rubbish both news, or you believe both, right? That's just my observation. I think everyone has the right to believe whatever they want to believe, but I'm just remarking that it's a little...strange, perhaps? to just take one side and toss away the other.

[Kelbo]

Not criticizing anybody, I'm just saying let's either believe everything they say or disbelieve everything they say. I'm not sure the 4 players will be a success, but that isn't my point. I'm just wondering why people go "hey! I'm going to believe the guy who said that they are going to asset-strip our club!" while at the same time thinking "they said they'll buy 4 players? That's rubbish!"

Something like that. Ah well, miscommunication, seems like I wrote it in a critical manner without checking through it. Sorry about that.

Basically, I'm wondering why people insist on believing the news that we have debt, yet at the same time refuse to believe the news that we have fully paid off the debt, despite both articles being published in say, the Lancashire Telegraph. Either you rubbish both news, or you believe both, right? That's just my observation. I think everyone has the right to believe whatever they want to believe, but I'm just remarking that it's a little...strange, perhaps? to just take one side and toss away the other.

Debt can be hidden to a degree, Barclays saw through it, hence they transferred to an Indian Bank, but hidden debt will be found out at some stage, I know why and I am not posting on here to give the goons in Pune any ammunition whatsoever!

[patrickvalery]

Not criticizing anybody, I'm just saying let's either believe everything they say or disbelieve everything they say. I'm not sure the 4 players will be a success, but that isn't my point. I'm just wondering why people go "hey! I'm going to believe the guy who said that they are going to asset-strip our club!" while at the same time thinking "they said they'll buy 4 players? That's rubbish!"

Something like that. Ah well, miscommunication, seems like I wrote it in a critical manner without checking through it. Sorry about that.

Basically, I'm wondering why people insist on believing the news that we have debt, yet at the same time refuse to believe the news that we have fully paid off the debt, despite both articles being published in say, the Lancashire Telegraph. Either you rubbish both news, or you believe both, right? That's just my observation. I think everyone has the right to believe whatever they want to believe, but I'm just remarking that it's a little...strange, perhaps? to just take one side and toss away the other.

I don't think people do do that. Generally its the idiot minority who follow everything they are told. Although this place is riddled with miserable buggers (and i include myslef in that), there seems to be a lot of intelligent posters too. They form opinions based on real events and not hearsay. But when so many poor decisions have been made it is then only human nature to believe the worst. To believe the trend will continue.

Anyway, no need to apologise for the tone of you post. I wasn't in slightest bit offended and i doubt anyone else was either.

[Mattyblue]

It's not strange at all. If you are constantly lied to and are continually witnessing decisions being made that are against the club's best interest then yes you will find it difficult to believe statements like 'we are debt free'.

[Black Burn]

Debt can be hidden to a degree, Barclays saw through it, hence they transferred to an Indian Bank, but hidden debt will be found out at some stage, I know why and I am not posting on here to give the goons in Pune any ammunition whatsoever!

All right, if you say so. That sounds possible, I guess.

I don't think people do do that. Generally its the idiot minority who follow everything they are told. Although this place is riddled with miserable buggers (and i include myslef in that), there seems to be a lot of intelligent posters too. They form opinions based on real events and not hearsay. But when so many poor decisions have been made it is then only human nature to believe the worst. To believe the trend will continue.

Anyway, no need to apologise for the tone of you post. I wasn't in slightest bit offended and i doubt anyone else was either.

Ah, thanks for the explanation. I guess I understand what's going on now, to a certain extent. But you're right, trust is easy to lose and difficult to earn. Since Venkys's blunders have given us a lot of trouble and lost our trust, it does make sense that it will is going to be difficult to trust them when they indicate they have good intentions. Well, whether those will materialize remain to be seen, but I'll hold on to the hope that despite the dark days before we might actually be going up again. Something like "The day is darkest before the dawn" or some cheesy line like that.

Or I might end up having my hopes crushed and devolve into a cynical gloomy guy next year.

[bob fleming]

I suppose being debt free and having four players sign for us in a week isn't considered good.

For 99% of Rovers fans the above statement doesn't ring true though. In case you have forgotten or choose not to recall, the club has been relegated. This is down to the incompetence of the owners and sticking with Kean as manager. It also means revenues have been halved. Venkys and Kean, other than getting us relegated, have also lost thousands of paying customers, they are also unable to attract any significant corporate sponsors or a shirt sponsor.

So forgive me for not buying the debt free nonsense. Where do you think the club will be in 2 years? Where do you think Venkys will be?

Four players brought in, 3 on totally unsustainable wages for a championship club. Any other football club would be panicking at the thought of the consequences of not being promoted at this point in time. To give them the best chance of succeeding they should have already removed the proven failure of a football manager that is Kean. That is so blindingly obvious that it actually hurts. Instead they build the entire club around him and allow him to appoint complete no marks into positions well above their station.

I'm glad your happy with the new roof. I'm slightly more concerned about the walls, two have fallen down, the others have massive cracks, oh and the ground is subsiding. Point being that until there is a proper infrastructure in place everything else is largely irrelevant.

And while Kean remains at the club in any capacity you have to question who actually owns the place. Why they felt the need to remove a great number of the experienced members of the squad last season due to age, then buy a couple of older players post relegation on very high wages. Try thinking about the role of Agents in all this Mr Burn.

So forgive me for not doing cartwheels at this point.

[Sparky Marky]

You're just trying to make a fuss mate....venkys have screwed us good and proper fron top to bottom and you're happy as long as we signed danny murphy, leon best and a bunch of untried foreigners to replace samba nelsen yak hoilett emerton diouf kalinic robbo ollsson jones etc....

You're easily pleased mr. black burn

[xtp]

Basically, I'm wondering why people insist on believing the news that we have debt, yet at the same time refuse to believe the news that we have fully paid off the debt, despite both articles being published in say, the Lancashire Telegraph. Either you rubbish both news, or you believe both, right? That's just my observation. I think everyone has the right to believe whatever they want to believe, but I'm just remarking that it's a little...strange, perhaps? to just take one side and toss away the other.

The answer to your question is fairly obvious, I think. The Rao's have claimed we are debt free before. This was proven to be a lie. They're now claiming it again. If for example, both stories are published in the LT, but one of them is quotes from the Rao's then it makes sense to believe the one that is from sources that haven't proven to be compulsive liars.

[gumboots]

Lurker since 2002, I think. Muahahaha! I was celebrating with you guys when we won the League Cup in 2002 with Graeme Souness, irritated when he left us for Newcastle, overjoyed when Mark Hughes brought us back to the giddy heights of UEFA Cup (now Europa) only to groan in disappointment when we crashed out, worried when Paul Ince lost those games before getting sacked and replaced by Sam Allardyce, whom I wasn't a fan of but I stuck to supporting the team despite his longball tactics and was relieved when we didn't get relegated and almost reached Hughes's level again, slammed my forehead against the wall when it was announced Steve Kean would be the new manager, enjoyed that 3-1 victory over Liverpool before everything went downhill. For the record, my favorite games of all time include the 4-3 victory over Manchester United in 2006 where David Bentley scored a hat-trick and Mark Hughes was still in charge (incidentally I've heard rumors of us talking to Bentley in the hopes of bringing him back).

You're right, I wasn't here when Blackburn Rovers won the Premiership title in 1995, so that makes me a relatively new member. But I'm just saying all that to prove that I'm not winding anyone up and that my decision to finally get an account and post here instead of hiding in the shadows to lurk is the reason why I'm here since June 2011 instead of much earlier.

I agree that there were much better times during the past, especially with Mark Hughes at the helm (I've no right to talk about the Kenny Daglish and champion days since I wasn't a fan back then) but I don't want to despair and look at everything through gloom tinted glasses. Rather put some rosy lenses on instead.

Why put on rose tinted glasses - it's far more painful when it all comes crashing down around you as it is sure to do. As for what we believe and don't believe - we don't generally believe any good things that Kean or Venkys tell us because they have done nothing to prove it's right. We do believe all the bad rumours because so far bad is generally all Venkys reign has given us. On balance we have enough evidence to see that they lie or are economical with the truth far more than they are honest and so we have every right to distrust them

[Kelbo]

All right, if you say so. That sounds possible, I guess.

Ah, thanks for the explanation. I guess I understand what's going on now, to a certain extent. But you're right, trust is easy to lose and difficult to earn. Since Venkys's blunders have given us a lot of trouble and lost our trust, it does make sense that it will is going to be difficult to trust them when they indicate they have good intentions. Well, whether those will materialize remain to be seen, but I'll hold on to the hope that despite the dark days before we might actually be going up again. Something like "The day is darkest before the dawn" or some cheesy line like that.

Or I might end up having my hopes crushed and devolve into a cynical gloomy guy next year.

There is a saying over here, 'you only get one chance to make a first impression' Venkys have had far more than that and the impression people over here have of them is incompetant idiots, not because of their colour, creed or their domicile but by their actions and performance to date!

[Black Burn]

The answer to your question is fairly obvious, I think. The Rao's have claimed we are debt free before. This was proven to be a lie. They're now claiming it again. If for example, both stories are published in the LT, but one of them is quotes from the Rao's then it makes sense to believe the one that is from sources that haven't proven to be compulsive liars.

All right, if you put it that way I guess I can see where you're coming from.

You're just trying to make a fuss mate....venkys have screwed us good and proper fron top to bottom and you're happy as long as we signed danny murphy, leon best and a bunch of untried foreigners to replace samba nelsen yak hoilett emerton diouf kalinic robbo ollsson jones etc....

You're easily pleased mr. black burn

I'm not pleased, but I'm just thinking it isn't the end of the world either. Naturally optimistic person, so I have hope things will become better. Not convinced that the players can do the job until they actually start playing, but it's a start, compared to earlier rumors where we weren't going to buy anybody this summer and will be selling everyone, or the club getting asset-stripped. So like I said, it isn't the end of the world, and it definitely won't be the end of Blackburn Rovers.

For 99% of Rovers fans the above statement doesn't ring true though. In case you have forgotten or choose not to recall, the club has been relegated. This is down to the incompetence of the owners and sticking with Kean as manager. It also means revenues have been halved. Venkys and Kean, other than getting us relegated, have also lost thousands of paying customers, they are also unable to attract any significant corporate sponsors or a shirt sponsor.

So forgive me for not buying the debt free nonsense. Where do you think the club will be in 2 years? Where do you think Venkys will be?

Four players brought in, 3 on totally unsustainable wages for a championship club. Any other football club would be panicking at the thought of the consequences of not being promoted at this point in time. To give them the best chance of succeeding they should have already removed the proven failure of a football manager that is Kean. That is so blindingly obvious that it actually hurts. Instead they build the entire club around him and allow him to appoint complete no marks into positions well above their station.

I'm glad your happy with the new roof. I'm slightly more concerned about the walls, two have fallen down, the others have massive cracks, oh and the ground is subsiding. Point being that until there is a proper infrastructure in place everything else is largely irrelevant.

And while Kean remains at the club in any capacity you have to question who actually owns the place. Why they felt the need to remove a great number of the experienced members of the squad last season due to age, then buy a couple of older players post relegation on very high wages. Try thinking about the role of Agents in all this Mr Burn.

So forgive me for not doing cartwheels at this point.

I'm not doing cartwheels yet, and I think you have a valid point in not buying the debt free stuff, but I'm concerned it's more because people think bad of Venkys and so lap up all the bad news while spitting the good news out. Still, you might be right, especially since their track record is pretty bad. As for the question regarding where Blackburn Rovers will be in 2 years' time, I really don't know. But then again, last month people were speculating how Venkys was going to asset-strip the club and sell us up by the end of summer. Unfortunately, buying 4 players in a week doesn't indicate any signs of asset-stripping. So instead of making predictions of how our club is going to be destroyed in a few years time, let's concentrate on the present and see where it takes us. I bet just last month nobody expected 4 players to come in. Yeah well, they may be failures or freebies or flops, but that's besides the point. The point is that despite people's fears of asset stripping, players were brought in. The future always bring with it unexpected surprises, so no point pondering over it. Who knows, in 2 years we might actually be back in the Premiership. Or we could be in League 1 or 2. The fun part is journey toward a yet-unknown destination.

Again I reiterate that I am not happy or pleased with the new signings. I'm not displeased or disappointed either. I'm just looking at it from a neutral point of view, like as in....."hey, the present looks better than what the doomsayers were predicting a month ago". If you guys don't believe the debt is gone then you have good reason to. I'm just curious why (for example when both news appear in the same newspaper website yet you only believe one of them), and grateful that you guys actually explained it to me. Since I live in Asia and the only way I can get hold of news is through the Internet instead of having local contacts or in-the-knows like most of you guys.

[thenodrog]

You make a good point in this about the signing of two 35 year olds on 2 year deals. Salgado, Nelsen and Roberts were deemed surplus to requirements and people who needed to be gotten off the wage bill. Kean then uses the excuse that we lost a lot of experience as one of the reasons for us being relegated, as the wage bill had to be shrunk. So now after we are out of the Premiership, where the huge money we received from being there paid the high wages of experienced players, we give two ageing players, who were once very good but will have huge question marks over their ability to still perform, 2 year deals on huge wages, in a league with fair less revenue. The thought and logic that the people running the club have is frightening.

Nowt to do with logic and all to do with agents fees. No in's and outs means no commision hence why players have been forced out to make room for replacements each carrying a bounty. The club is in the hands of spivs.

[bob fleming]

Nowt to do with logic and all to do with agents fees. No in's and outs means no commision hence why players have been forced out to make room for replacements carrying a bounty.

+ 1,500,000 Theno

Which is what we paid in agents fees for Rochina. Jerome Anderson, although he stated he had nothing to do with BRFC since Jan 2011, went on TalkSport at the beginning of last season defending this transfer. According to Anderson he justified the fee by claiming we had signed a £5m player.

So again Mr Burn - have a think about the role of Agents in all this. if you still can't work it out after reading Thenodrogs post then there really is no hope for you.

Why is Kean still here again? Three way split, everyone's a winner, apart from BRFC.

[Black Burn]

+ 1,500,000 Theno

Which is what we paid in agents fees for Rochina. Jerome Anderson, although he stated he had nothing to do with BRFC since Jan 2011, went on TalkSport at the beginning of last season defending this transfer. According to Anderson he justified the fee by claiming we had signed a £5m player.

So again Mr Burn - have a think about the role of Agents in all this. if you still can't work it out after reading Thenodrogs post then there really is no hope for you.

Why is Kean still here again? Three way split, everyone's a winner, apart from BRFC.

I already worked it out, thank you very much. I'm grateful to you guys for explaining it to me. Really. But I'm a hopeless person to begin with, so don't get your hopes up on that.

In short, this whole cycle of kicking players like Salgado, Roberts and other experienced players out and bringing in yet another couple of oldies (or "experienced" players) like Murphy and Gomes is what contributes to the big fat paycheck of the agents...players' agents receive fees and comissions for completing transfers, so the more transfers Rovers have, the more they earned. However, this whole process is detrimental to our club, who suffers both economically and on the pitch because of various BS clauses on the contracts and the undesirable need of the agents to gobble our (the fans') hard-earned cash. Did I get that right?

[Exiled in Toronto]

+ 1,500,000 Theno

Which is what we paid in agents fees for Rochina. Jerome Anderson, although he stated he had nothing to do with BRFC since Jan 2011, went on TalkSport at the beginning of last season defending this transfer. According to Anderson he justified the fee by claiming we had signed a £5m player.

So again Mr Burn - have a think about the role of Agents in all this. if you still can't work it out after reading Thenodrogs post then there really is no hope for you.

Why is Kean still here again? Three way split, everyone's a winner, apart from BRFC.

So we are all agreed then that the asset-stripping theory is completely bogus as it is completely contradicted by the asset-turnover theory.

Hardly a theory actually, the game has been rife with "wheeler-dealer" managers who's buying and selling of players seemed out of all proportion to the needs of the squad. Who knows, maybe even Furphy made 50 quid out of flipping that player whose name escapes me who was on our books for 2 weeks.