[Archived] No Surrender

[adopted scouser]

So the Queen is set to shake hands with McGuiness, a murderer (who looks like a clown without makeup). A dark day for me personally but I can see both sides of this forthcoming event.On the one hand ~ symbolically ~ it's a sign of a big step forward in terms of peace. But on the other hand, this is a man who is essentially a former terrorist, even if he never pulled the trigger himself. Let's not forget that a member of the Royal Family, Lord Mountbatten, was murdered by the IRA in 1979. Also, how many of the Queen's army have been murdered by the IRA ?

Mixed feelings for me.

[thenodrog]

Martin McGuiness. The man who by common consensus was carrying a Thompson machine gun and directly responsible for the events on Bloody Sunday. The biggest tragedy that day was that he was not one of the dead.

[jim mk2]

There are no mised feelings for me. The Royal family of all people should not be extending the hand of friendship to Irish terrorists such as McGuiness and Adams without an apology beforehand from the IRA scum for their part in the murder of British soldiers in the "Troubles".

[Mike E]

I think Her Maj should do the honourable thing, which is to shake his hand and then wash her hands with a scourer.

[david_daft]

Of course, the British have always been entirely honourable in their foriegn policy.

[joey_big_nose]

Agree with the above poster. From the other side of the fence people will be asking why should a nationalist leader shake hands with a foreign imperialist leader who is the symbol of those who shackled his nation for six hundered years, and the head of an army that has 'murdered' thousands of freedom fighters. It is a matter of perspective.

If we don't move on we are stuck in the past forever. It's not worth worrying about. If people held grudges against the British we wouldn't be able to travel anywhere in the known world...

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Exactly right. I studied History at Uni and the British are probably the most ruthless country ever. They even invented the concentration camp.

[thenodrog]

Exactly right. I studied History at Uni and the British are probably the most ruthless country ever. They even invented the concentration camp.

Those were the days alright.

btw If we were all that ruthless McGuiness would not be shaking anyone's hand right now. Certainly not if he had tried those stunts in Russia, China or many of the Asian / African countries.

[adopted scouser]

Bob Hoskins again. To what England has given the world, culture, sophistication, knowhow

If the 'clown without makeup' pulled those stunts in the countries above he wouldn't have a hand to shake

[SouthAussieRover]

Of course, the British have always been entirely honourable in their foriegn policy.

Yawn.

[Rovermatt]

I can see why people would get worked up about this. McGuinness was undoubtedly up to his neck in the violence. He may never have murdered anyone directly but he certainly gave the orders. The victims would also have included members of his own community labeled 'touts' and 'sympathisers', namely 'the disappeared'. He and his mates are despicable people.

On the other hand, progress is the name of the game with respect to the NI situation. McGuinness and Sinn Fein are now very much about peace (so they claim, though only in the context of their wider all-Ireland plan) and clearly both sides see a relatively small physical gesture as another step on the road. Personally I don't see the need for it but then I'm not trying to move the country forward.

The Troubles (as they are commonly and rightly known) represented a dirty, stinking, grubby time in recent Irish and British history. Atrocities were enacted by all sides, nobody has clean hands. The murder of British soldiers by the PIRA and their dissident offshoots is just as reprehensible as the Loyalist killings of random Catholics or the murder of civilians in Derry on Bloody Sunday by the Parachute Regiment. The whole sorry period shamed all of its participants. Every peace process involves a moving away from the past.

[ABBEY]

. McGuinness and Sinn Fein are now very much about peace

So is Ian Brady.

[adopted scouser]

Her Royal Highness to shake hands with a murderer. After visiting Enniskillen of all places, and knowing that the same day of that atrocity the IRA cowards planted a bomb in Tullyhommon designed to kill kids of the boy's and girl's brigade.

Not mixed feelings anymore, just disgust. McGuiness et al are unrepentant, and constantly seek to justify what went before.

[Sparky Marky]

There are no mised feelings for me. The Royal family of all people should not be extending the hand of friendship to Irish terrorists such as McGuiness and Adams without an apology beforehand from the IRA scum for their part in the murder of British soldiers in the "Troubles".

Wasn't it your mates that let them into the house of commons??

[Rovermatt]

Her Royal Highness to shake hands with a murderer. After visiting Enniskillen of all places, and knowing that the same day of that atrocity the IRA cowards planted a bomb in Tullyhommon designed to kill kids of the boy's and girl's brigade.

Not mixed feelings anymore, just disgust. McGuiness et al are unrepentant, and constantly seek to justify what went before.

Equally, there will of course be people within McGuinness's Mid-Ulster constituency and his hometown Derry (and beyond) who will be uncomfortable with seeing an elected representative of the nationalist community (albeit hardline nationalism) shaking hands with someone whose soldiers killed all those civilians on Bloody Sunday. Such feelings would be misplaced though. This is the price of our continuing peace here in Ireland.

[joey_big_nose]

I can see why people would get worked up about this. McGuinness was undoubtedly up to his neck in the violence. He may never have murdered anyone directly but he certainly gave the orders. The victims would also have included members of his own community labeled 'touts' and 'sympathisers', namely 'the disappeared'. He and his mates are despicable people.

On the other hand, progress is the name of the game with respect to the NI situation. McGuinness and Sinn Fein are now very much about peace (so they claim, though only in the context of their wider all-Ireland plan) and clearly both sides see a relatively small physical gesture as another step on the road. Personally I don't see the need for it but then I'm not trying to move the country forward.

The Troubles (as they are commonly and rightly known) represented a dirty, stinking, grubby time in recent Irish and British history. Atrocities were enacted by all sides, nobody has clean hands. The murder of British soldiers by the PIRA and their dissident offshoots is just as reprehensible as the Loyalist killings of random Catholics or the murder of civilians in Derry on Bloody Sunday by the Parachute Regiment. The whole sorry period shamed all of its participants. Every peace process involves a moving away from the past.

Great post.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Dont like it one bit but whatever needs to be done to stop him and his kind from giving the orders to murder innocent men,women and Children......

Do you sleep well at night McGuinness?

[RoyRover]

EDit

[Sandiway Blue]

As much as I don't like this one bit,symbolic gestures like this are essential if the peace process is going to succeed.It will be hard to stomach for a lot of people and understandably so, but it is the only way forward and everybody knows it.

[Rovermatt]

Dont like it one bit but whatever needs to be done to stop him and his kind from giving the orders to murder innocent men,women and Children......

Do you sleep well at night McGuinness?

He never sleeps in the same place anyway.

Given the number of dictators, presidents for life, megalomaniacs and mass murderers she must have rubbed shoulders with over the last 60 year reign, it is unlikely that Queen Elizabeth will be too fazed by an encounter with Martin McGuinness.

[BiggusLaddus]

Except that this particular murderer's organisation killed her own cousin.

[jim mk2]

Except that this particular murderer's organisation killed her own cousin.

..... and hundreds of HM armed forces sent there to protect Catholics in the first place. IRA the coward's "army" that does not show its face, plants its bombs and then runs away. Scum.

[Rovermatt]

Whoever they were protecting, the murder of soldiers was disgusting. It chills my blood to think of those two guys (for example) hijacked in West Belfast back in the early 80s during a large funeral procession.

It's horrible also to think of those civilians massacred in Derry on Bloody Sunday.

As I say, a nasty, grubby conflict.