[Archived] 'Biggest clubs' in the Championship?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Been reading a few Championship opposition websites over these last few weeks to guage opinions and get a general feeling for our new 'home'.Surprisingly, I've come across the above same question on many clubs sites.I was particularly interested in a discussion on a 'Brighton and Hove' web that placed us in this position in the follwing table of,yes,thats right....BIGGEST CLUBS in the Championship........

Leeds

Sheff Wed

Wolves

Nottingham Forest

Derby

Ipswich

Leicester

Cardiff

Brighton

Crystal Palace

Charlton

Bristol City

Birmingham

Middlesborough

Hull

Bolton

Watford

Blackburn

Huddersfield

Burnley

Millwall

Barnsley

Blackpool

Peterborough.

Now I know that footballing 'BIG' can be a combination of many factors,Crowds,Trophy success and general footballing history but after seeing the above table,rubbing my eyes and spending a little time cleaning the coffee I had spat out over my Keyboard in amazement (yes,someone believes Watford and Brighton to be bigger clubs than Rovers! ) I would like to put the question to our own fans......

Where do you really see us in a table of this kind?

[roverandout]

couldnt give a toss what brighton fans think, brighton are a nothing club anyway

[m1st]

They're having a laugh, SG194.

I can see a sort-of logic to clubs like Leeds & Sheffield W being near the top of this list, given their catchment areas and their history. Actually, the ones I think should be nearer the top of a table like this are Watford, with their new Italian owners and Manager, and Leicester.

But it makes no sense to have Birmingham 9 or 10 places below Wolves . I think Ipswich have a fair bit of money behind them but they seem to have punched below their weight last season. And having Palace where they are probably speaks more about Brighton's local [?] rivalry with them, than anything else.

Still, at least they had us above the Dingles!

Oh, and to answer your question, in the top 6.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

It must be down to the ignorance of the new breed armchair fan across the country m1st...Watford near the top though?

Rovers are THE most succesful side in the Championship and only a handful of clubs averaged a higher gate than us last season

Can you say any other Championship club has a greater history than ours?

How I see the top 5 clubs :

Leeds

Wolves

Sheff Wed

Forest

Rovers

P.S.

I would put Burnley above at least half of those clubs in the above table too in all honesty.

[ross-shire rover]

Rovers pre-Venkeans up at the top, Rovers at the moment hovering near the bottom. God it makes me weep at what they've done to the club.

[Ossydave]

I'm sure I read somewhere about the huge potential for Brighton given their location/catchment area, but to suggest that they are bigger than us now is ridiculous.

[blondie]

With the numbers of season tickets sold at ewood ,this is probably accurate in comparison with the rest

[roverandout]

yes it would be in normal times but season ticket sales are down to one thing which is being discussed in another thread, these are not normal times to be a rovers supporter

[dingles staying down 4ever]

We are still above the Dingles.....

[m1st]

It must be down to the ignorance of the new breed armchair fan across the country m1st...Watford near the top though?

Rovers are THE most succesful side in the Championship and only a handful of clubs averaged a higher gate than us last season

Can you say any other Championship club has a greater history than ours?

How I see the top 5 clubs :

Leeds

Wolves

Sheff Wed

Forest

Rovers

P.S.

I would put Burnley above at least half of those clubs in the above table too in all honesty.

Well, all I'd say is that cash, and the willingness of the owners to spend it in the interests of the club's success must be a major factor.

Which is why I rated Watford. And, in the light of tonight's news, Forest sound as though they've got potential for being a big club, if not this season, then certainly next. Their new owners seem to be saying all the right things - doing a mini-Man. City, rather than a Venky's boast.

[RoyRover]

Been reading a few Championship opposition websites over these last few weeks to guage opinions and get a general feeling for our new 'home'.Surprisingly, I've come across the above same question on many clubs sites.I was particularly interested in a discussion on a 'Brighton and Hove' web that placed us in this position in the follwing table of,yes,thats right....BIGGEST CLUBS in the Championship........

Leeds

Sheff Wed

Wolves

Nottingham Forest

Derby

Ipswich

Leicester

Cardiff

Brighton

Crystal Palace

Charlton

Bristol City

Birmingham

Middlesborough

Hull

Bolton

Watford

Blackburn

Huddersfield

Burnley

Millwall

Barnsley

Blackpool

Peterborough.

Now I know that footballing 'BIG' can be a combination of many factors,Crowds,Trophy success and general footballing history but after seeing the above table,rubbing my eyes and spending a little time cleaning the coffee I had spat out over my Keyboard in amazement (yes,someone believes Watford and Brighton to be bigger clubs than Rovers! ) I would like to put the question to our own fans......

Where do you really see us in a table of this kind?

Sheffield Wednesday and Leeds are too giants who shouldn't been anywhere near the places they have been over the last number of years. My Dad is Wednesday fan and always shakes his head when I mention how I can't believe a club of their size has sunk to the depths that they have. That's what makes Rovers situation even more frightening when you consider what a club like that, who dwarfs us, have been through.

I would have ourselves ahead of Brighton, Crystal Palace, Bristol City, Bolton and Watford.

[Mattyblue]

A 'big club' is about success on the pitch, history and fanbase.

Now the first two we should be at the top of the list, our fanbase is excellent for the size of our town and catchment area, but obviously isn't as big as clubs like Leeds who are from enormous metropolitan areas.

However, the reason we are placed so low on that list is a] there were usually empty seats at our PL matches and b] the media lumped us as a 'likes of...' club, i.e. 'the likes of Blackburn and Wigan are happy with survival'.

[PAFELL]

Been reading a few Championship opposition websites over these last few weeks to guage opinions and get a general feeling for our new 'home'.Surprisingly, I've come across the above same question on many clubs sites.I was particularly interested in a discussion on a 'Brighton and Hove' web that placed us in this position in the follwing table of,yes,thats right....BIGGEST CLUBS in the Championship........

Leeds

Sheff Wed

Wolves

Nottingham Forest

Derby

Ipswich

Leicester

Cardiff

Brighton

Crystal Palace

Charlton

Bristol City

Birmingham

Middlesborough

Hull

Bolton

Watford

Blackburn

Huddersfield

Burnley

Millwall

Barnsley

Blackpool

Peterborough.

Now I know that footballing 'BIG' can be a combination of many factors,Crowds,Trophy success and general footballing history but after seeing the above table,rubbing my eyes and spending a little time cleaning the coffee I had spat out over my Keyboard in amazement (yes,someone believes Watford and Brighton to be bigger clubs than Rovers! ) I would like to put the question to our own fans......

Where do you really see us in a table of this kind?

In terms of history, achievements etc then the table is clearly wrong. Rovers history clearly outshines many in that table.

But today, because of Venkys and Kean who have belittled rovers, Brighton supporters may have a point - even a little point, with regards to their club. Rovers support is decreasing, whereas Brightons is increasing. Rovers have bad owners and management, whereas Brighton have good owners and manager in Tony Bloom and Gus Poyet.

But I also see that what happened at Brighton, can also happen at Rovers. Brighton had very dodgy owners and nearly went belly up. No ground etc etc.

Yet last season was their first season in the championship having come up from league one. They started that season in their new ground, The amex. From a fan base of 9,000, they sold 17,000 season tickets - with an additional 3,000, on the waiting list. The majority of the matches last season were sell outs.

Over this close season, they have increased the capacity by a further 8,000. They are already thinking this may not be enough. I am a rovers supporter, who lives not far from Brighton. I have therefore been able to see what they are doing there and cannot help being impressed.

What I see at Brighton gives me hope with regards to Rovers. Having got rid of dodgy owners, the club was able to rise again. One day this will happen at Rovers. But whilst venkys are here, no chance, Rovers as a club is in decline - so other clubs - putting aside what has happened on the pitch - could and may well have overtaken Rovers. Due to the way the club is being run today.

[m1st]

In terms of history, achievements etc then the table is clearly wrong. Rovers history clearly outshines many in that table.

But today, because of Venkys and Kean who have belittled rovers, Brighton supporters may have a point - even a little point, with regards to their club. Rovers support is decreasing, whereas Brightons is increasing. Rovers have bad owners and management, whereas Brighton have good owners and manager in Tony Bloom and Gus Poyet.

But I also see that what happened at Brighton, can also happen at Rovers. Brighton had very dodgy owners and nearly went belly up. No ground etc etc.

Yet last season was their first season in the championship having come up from league one. They started that season in their new ground, The amex. From a fan base of 9,000, they sold 17,000 season tickets - with an additional 3,000, on the waiting list. The majority of the matches last season were sell outs.

Over this close season, they have increased the capacity by a further 8,000. They are already thinking this may not be enough. I am a rovers supporter, who lives not far from Brighton. I have therefore been able to see what they are doing there and cannot help being impressed.

What I see at Brighton gives me hope with regards to Rovers. Having got rid of dodgy owners, the club was able to rise again. One day this will happen at Rovers. But whilst venkys are here, no chance, Rovers as a club is in decline - so other clubs - putting aside what has happened on the pitch - could and may well have overtaken Rovers. Due to the way the club is being run today.

+1

[Ricky]

Forest are one of the biggest championship clubs. 2 European cups and good gates. Also been the subject of a takeover yesterday and their new owner appears to be a keen football man. They are going to be very big spenders and will go up to the prem pretty soon. Maybe not this season but next season if not.

[OJRovers]

In the last 20 years of the premiership, we are 9th in the all-time table - must count for something regardless of support size.

Talk of 'big' clubs is best left to the Dingles and their famous "4k a week" away followings.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Big clubs dont need to talk about it constantly. They play at the highest levels, get the largest crowds and constantly challenge for trophies.

Many Chumpionship clubs are stuck in a time-warp they cannot escape with memories of days gone by washing through their sub conscience. We may soon be following the same pattern.

Hopefuly, we can show some of these 'massive' clubs just how 'small' we are, but with Kean at the helm you have to imagine many of them will have the last laugh this season.

[Majiball]

Even when history is considered we ###### all over the lot of them 11th overall.

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/all-time-table/full

[Mattyblue]

Exactly. It's all that Leeds and Sheff Wed have left to fall back on.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I mainly go off attendances in the big clubs debate. Attendances pretty much decide the match and commercial revenue streams and as everyone gets a similar amount in TV money, they are usually the deciding factors. Excellent chairmen/managers/players and rich owners can allow some clubs (like Rovers) to buck the trend, but long-term a big club is one with a big catchment area and high attendances. So the big clubs in the Championship would be:

1. Leeds

2. Derby

3. Wolves

4. Birmingham

5. Cardiff

6. Sheff Wed

7. Leicester

8. Forest

9. Charlton

10. Bolton

I'd put Rovers at about 15th, but if Venkys continue their damage to our long-term support, that could quickly slip to about 20th.

[Mattyblue]

Bolton 10th?

They've not had higher attendances than us in decades.

If you mean 2012 boycotted Rovers, then fair enough.

[Earlydoors]

As a slight tangent to this thread I wondered how Rovers might fare this season by asking myself which clubs have the right setup to finish above us and which are likely to self-implode and finish below us.

I think the ability to galvanise a club is the key to success and the reason why certain managers succeed with the same playing staffs where others have failed.

So two simple questions, who had a good season last season?

Good

Leeds

Sheff Wed

Derby

Ipswich

Leicester

Cardiff

Brighton

Crystal Palace

Charlton

Birmingham

Middlesborough

Hull

Watford

Huddersfield

Burnley

Blackpool

Bad

Wolves

Nottingham Forest

Bristol City

Bolton

Blackburn

Millwall

Barnsley

Peterborough

And secondly, is there any reason the Good ones might not have a Good season this year, and is there any hope for the Bad ones to improve?

(Reasons below)

Good

Sheff Wed

Derby

Ipswich

Leicester

Brighton

Crystal Palace

Charlton

Birmingham

Middlesborough

Hull

Watford

Huddersfield

Burnley

Blackpool

Transition

Leeds

Cardiff

Nottingham Forest

Bad

Wolves

Bristol City

Bolton

Blackburn

Millwall

Barnsley

Peterborough

Leeds - ridiculous to remove Grayson, Warnock is a proven manager but no reason to think he will do better than SG in his first full season, think they've also been selling better players

Cardiff - off field turmoil with kit change, season ticket refund etc

Nottingham Forest - should get an initial confidence boost from Kuwait takeover but even if well managed off-field have lost several players and will take time to gel new squad

So hardly scientific but I wouldn't be surprised if these groups found themselves in top/middle/bottom of table.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Bolton 10th?

They've not had higher attendances than us in decades.

If you mean 2012 boycotted Rovers, then fair enough.

Forgot to mention it but I think you've gotta factor in how cheap our season tickets are as well. If Bolton fans paid what we do, I'm pretty sure they'd have slightly higher attendances (as they did in the early 00s). Its unsurprising given metropolitan Bolton contains 260,000 people and Blackburn + Darwen about 140,000.

[K-Hod]

Leeds, Sheff Weds, Forest are the biggest in my eyes. Wolves no bigger than us.

[Mattyblue]

Forgot to mention it but I think you've gotta factor in how cheap our season tickets are as well. If Bolton fans paid what we do, I'm pretty sure they'd have slightly higher attendances (as they did in the early 00s). Its unsurprising given metropolitan Bolton contains 260,000 people and Blackburn + Darwen about 140,000.

We've had higher average crowds than them for a good majoirty of the time throughout the 80s , 90s and 00s, Not half bad considering the repsective sizes of the towns.