[Archived] Tragedy in Denver

[ABBEY]

jim ,start a gun debate thread.Like I said i started this as a respect for what happened.

[thenodrog]

I must say I agreed with Tom Brokaw on the Andrew Marr show who said being able to easily purchase a handgun is one thing but being able to purchase an AK 47 is another thing entirely.

[Baz]

I must say I agreed with Tom Brokaw on the Andrew Marr show who said being able to easily purchase a handgun is one thing but being able to purchase an AK 47 is another thing entirely.

Not really. You can kill multiple people with either.

The obvious thing to do is to have stricter access to guns, to those who actually need them. Whilst it won't stop everyone, it may stop some.

[jim mk2]

Not really. You can kill multiple people with either.

The obvious thing to do is to have stricter access to guns, to those who actually need them. Whilst it won't stop everyone, it may stop some.

No, no, no, you've got it all wrong. Stricter gun laws would deny Americans the "freedom" to kill each other. It's written in their constitution.

[RoyRover]

My deepest sympathies go out to the people and families of those involved in this senseless tradgedy. People out enjoying themselves at the cinema with friends and family, doing nobody any harm, doing normal every day things and some lunatic decides to do this. It's unthinkable.

I was living in Virginia at the time of the mass shooting at VT. The strange thing is that despite being at university at VCU in the state capital of Richmond, I didn't feel that threatened by it because Blacksburg was four hours and a couple of hundred miles away, which was a long way away in my mindseye at the time. However, for some reason I think that this one has had a greater affect on me, even though I no longer live in the U.S. I'm in the process of trying to decide whether I should move back to Virginia to begin a Masters degree at VCU and this incident really got me thinking. It could have been anywhere. It wasn't some inner city gangland, drug ridden neighbour hood. It was just a small town, where people got on with their normal everyday lives.

For me the question that stands out time after time when something like this happens is why this happens so much in the U.S? People will point to the lax gun laws, which is a fair point. But I'd love to know why there are so many people who have these sick urges, impulses and desires and act them out. What drives people to commit these sorts of massacres on a regular basis? As thenodrog points out, guns don't kill people, people kill people. And I would agree with him. What is it in the American physche that leads people to behaving like this? The fact that they can get guns so easily helps them to commit these atrocities, but why do they do it at all?

[jim mk2]

As thenodrop points out, guns don't kill people, people kill people. And I would agree with him.

Nuclear weapons don't kill people, people kill people. In which case the west should agree to Iran having nuclear weapons.

[ABBEY]

NO ONE died of a nuke in DENVER!!!!

One of the forums I use there's a lot of people with connections to the cinema and one knew one of the girls I'm led to believe .

[RoyRover]

Nuclear weapons don't kill people, people kill people. In which case the west should agree to Iran having nuclear weapons.

They don't launch themselves.

[jim mk2]

They don't launch themselves.

.....and guns don't pull their own trigger.

[speeeeeeedie]

The articles American Rover posted are spot on. The lunatic should be given as little attention as possible. Yet what happens? The media go mental as people will watch. Dan Gardner's Science of Fear book does a good job of explaining that part of it.

Not allowing guns would mean less people are killed by them. Banning them all will never happen as it's part of the national fabric.

Abbey, would you be protesting as much at the thread derailing if the shooting had happened in Oakland?

[RoyRover]

.....and guns don't pull their own trigger.

Exactly the point I made in my original post. Thinking about it now, I don't really see what point you were trying to make in your response to my post.

[jim mk2]

The point I'm trying to make is that it the weapons that are the problem, not people. The US gun lobby defend their right to bear arms and say it is people who misuse them, in which case they also ought to back North Korea's desire to have nuclear weapons and Syria's recent admission that they have chemical weapons - after all, in safe hands they cannot do any harm can they ?

[Tom]

Watching his court appearance was unsettling he just looked dead behind the eyes, not sure if he was trying to look insane, actually insane or just really tired though

Oh and keep the gun debate in the relevant topic

[Kamy100]

Watching his court appearance was unsettling he just looked dead behind the eyes, not sure if he was trying to look insane, actually insane or just really tired though

Oh and keep the gun debate in the relevant topic

To me it looked like he was drugged,

[thenodrog]

We have very stringent gun laws but it didn't stop Thomas Hamilton, Michael Ryan, Raoul Moat and Derrick Bird from committing awful atrocities within these shores did it?

Occasional ? Here's a selection from the past few years.

Blacksburg, Virginia. Virginia Tech shooting. April 2007, 32 dead.

Binghampton, New York. Shooting spree. Aug 2009, 13 dead

Fort Hood, Texas. Army base killings. Nov 2009, 13 dead

Geneva City, Alabama. Shooting spree. Mar 2009, 10 dead.

Wake up matey, your country has a problem.

Jim you need to factor in the fact that at over 300m population the USA has over 5x the population of the UK. Applied to the UK that would equate to 20 of the above incidents in the UK in the last 25 years. Not much good pointing fingers at the yanks and their gun control. We need to look in a mirror cos I think this country has a problem too.

Just to throw one in ..... What is the definition of atrocities or mass murder? Would it make a lot of difference if one of your family was killed by a nutter or by a muslim terrorist on a bus or in a plane or by an IRA thug in a shopping centre / pub etc? We are in danger of falling into the 'people who live in glass houses' category.

[jim mk2]

Jim you need to factor in the fact that at over 300m population the USA has over 5x the population of the UK. Applied to the UK that would equate to 20 of the above incidents in the UK in the last 25 years. Not much good pointing fingers at the yanks and their gun control. We need to look in a mirror cos I think this country has a problem too.

Ludicrous post. Read this, figures a bit out of date but still pertinent.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/oct/13/homicide-rates-country-murder-data

[thenodrog]

Ludicrous post. Read this, figures a bit out of date but still pertinent.

http://www.guardian....try-murder-data

Good information on the face of it.

So why are you pinting fingers at the USA stating they have a serious problem. You need to be pointing at sub Sahara Africa and South and Central America first don't you?

[jim mk2]

Good information on the face of it.

So why are you pinting fingers at the USA stating they have a serious problem. You need to be pointing at sub Sahara Africa and South and Central America first don't you?

.....because this is about the shootings in Denver and US guns laws ? Why are you so dense ?

[ABBEY]

Er Jim it's about the murders and NOT gun laws ..

[DE.]

http://synonblog.dailymail.co.uk/2012/07/denver-shootings-the-murder-is-in-the-corrupted-mind-not-in-the-legal-guns.html

Thought this was an interesting article regarding the gun issue.

[LeChuck]

Er Jim it's about the murders and NOT gun laws ..

How can the two not go hand-in-hand? What else is there to talk about on a messageboard? The idea of simply 'paying respects' doesn't work in this environment because none of us knew any of them, there is nothing we can say.

Surely the best respect we can pay is to discuss the things that possibly led to the tragedy, in the hope that it might change and be prevented in the future?

[speeeeeeedie]

How can the two not go hand-in-hand? What else is there to talk about on a messageboard? The idea of simply 'paying respects' doesn't work in this environment because none of us knew any of them, there is nothing we can say.

Surely the best respect we can pay is to discuss the things that possibly led to the tragedy, in the hope that it might change and be prevented in the future?

Abbey, I will ask again; would you have put this thread up if the people shot weren't in Denver? I know you have an affinity for the place.

I agree with LeChuck. It's tragic. The victims and their families will have indelible changes in their lives. It's not for me to console though as I have no personal attachment to anyone involved, nor am I someone who looks at events like this and gets worried because "it could have been me".

I am not trying to be terse, just looking at it from the outside.

[Rovermatt]

Based on my limited knowledge of Oakland, I'd posit that shootings are not an unusual occurrence there. However if a load of people were massacred in a cinema there I believe it would be news regardless. Abbey may even start a thread on it.

[ABBEY]

Abbey, I will ask again; would you have put this thread up if the people shot weren't in Denver? I know you have an affinity for the place.

I agree with LeChuck. It's tragic. The victims and their families will have indelible changes in their lives. It's not for me to console though as I have no personal attachment to anyone involved, nor am I someone who looks at events like this and gets worried because "it could have been me".

I am not trying to be terse, just looking at it from the outside.

DIDNT KNOW YOU WANTED AN ANSWER ,THOUGHT YOU WAS JUST CHEAP SHOTTING. IVE NO IDEA IF I WOULD START ONE AS WHEN I STARTED THIS ONE ,ONE OF THE FORUM I USE, WHO MADE ME A GUEST OF HONOUR,WHEN I WAS IN DENVER AND AZ, WAS ACTUALLY MISSING AROUND THE CINEMA AREA. FFS ,SOME THINGS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE NFL OR FOOTBALL. I WOULD ALSO BE UPSET IF THIS HAPPENED IN BURNLEY OR PRESTON.

[SouthAussieRover]

EVEN IF STEVE KEAN WAS THERE ?