[Archived] Gun Law Debate: Please keep posts civil and conversational

[Amo]

Odd fellow.

'Odd' isn't the word I'd use. My socks are odd, but harmless.

[Mike E]

'Odd' isn't the word I'd use. My socks are odd, but harmless.

Are your odd socks due to your avatars?

[Steve Moss]

Because anyone carrying a gun isn't a man .

26% of gun owners are female. So as to that population segment, you would be correct.

But 26% accurate is still a failing grade.

[old darwen blue]

Interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25727080

[ultrablue]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/16/movie-theatre-shooting-man-texting-florida?CMP=fb_us

Exactly my take on things regarding the cinema text murder. - "these are the deaths that the government has the most power to stop, simply by making guns harder to get a hold of. Any argument can end in violence, no one can stop that. But if there's a gun involved, the likelihood of someone dying is far greater".

The shooter was probably, in many ways, a good man. But an afternoon of bad decisions has led to one person dead, a man in for life and two families damaged.

I remember Bob Costas saying something very similar on Sunday Night Football. Add guns into a heated argument and you have a recipe for disaster.

By the way - the murderer was a retired policeman. If the NRA had its way, he could have been patrolling a high school hallway full of cheeky kids with a pistol in his pocket.

[Paul]

One only has to follow the links in the Guardian article to appreciate why gun control is so badly needed in the USA and why we are fortunate to have it in the UK.

What on earth is a 71 year old doing with a semi-automatic pistol in a cinema?

People who feel the need to carry a weapon while going about their daily business must have serious issues. The alternative view would be the country and society which created that mindset has serious issues.

It's hard to see which.

[thenodrog]

Interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25727080

Understandable more like odb.

One only has to follow the links in the Guardian article to appreciate why gun control is so badly needed in the USA and why we are fortunate to have it in the UK. What on earth is a 71 year old doing with a semi-automatic pistol in a cinema? People who feel the need to carry a weapon while going about their daily business must have serious issues. The alternative view would be the country and society which created that mindset has serious issues. It's hard to see which.

Maybe a lot of Americans feel vulnerable because they live in relative isolation compared to us? 100miles to the Mall and such.

[SouthAussieRover]

Ah so how come there aren't multiple shootings in Australia?

[Paul]

Understandable more like odb.

Maybe a lot of Americans feel vulnerable because they live in relative isolation compared to us? 100miles to the Mall and such.

That's an interesting thought. I do though have several American friends and British friends who have taken US citizenship who don't seem to feel it necessary to arm themselves - not even the two who are rootin', tootin', hunting and fishing men!!

[FGS5635]

Its to engrained into the american culture now. I never want a gun becasue nobody else carries one in the uk and I feel safe without one. If I lived in america and knew most folk had one then I'd feel the need to own one also as I'd feel safer levelling the playing field so to speak

[ABBEY]

26% of gun owners are female. So as to that population segment, you would be correct.

But 26% accurate is still a failing grade.

Ok women use them as a dildo extension with a trigger!

[Stuart]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25787934

Criminal negligence at least?

It seems no amount of stories about the perils of freely available, and irresponsible ownership of, guns will change the minds of the average American, who dogmatically points to the constitution as the reason for having one. Such a stance is almost akin to the interpretations of religious texts as a excuse for extremism, IMHO.

[Steve Moss]

I suspect that your forefathers who founded the Empire would be far closer to American thinking on the subject than yours.

[jim mk2]

Times change dear boy. This is 2013, not 1713. When is the US going to join the 21st century ?

[ultrablue]

A a great deal of all our forefathers remained disgustingly quiet on keeping black people as property.

Times change - there is no refuge for you gun nuts in the moral attitudes of history. You just look ridiculous.

[Paul]

I suspect that your forefathers who founded the Empire would be far closer to American thinking on the subject than yours.

You do realise your posts on this subject reinforce the stereotype many non Americans hold for your countrymen?

At just what point would you draw the line? It seems to me the person who is so unbelievably stupid as to keep a loaded rifle in a place which can be accessed so easily by a child needs putting away.

How many dead children does America need before it understands all this "right to bear arms" is utter nonsense fuelled by nothing other than profit.

[Steve Moss]

You do realise your posts on this subject reinforce the stereotype many non Americans hold for your countrymen?

This confuses me. Why should any American care about what others think of America?

If your child's friends think drugs are cool, do you want him or her going along with the peer group? Or do you want them thinking for themselves and making their own decisions?

Times change dear boy. This is 2013, not 1713. When is the US going to join the 21st century ?

Times do indeed change. Nothing is constant. And your point would be?

[jim mk2]

This confuses me. Why should any American care about what others think of America?

If you don't care what others think why are you always on here defending the US ?

Times do indeed change. Nothing is constant. And your point would be?

The point is, you don't get it.

[thenodrog]

Times change dear boy. This is 2013, not 1713. When is the US going to join the 21st century ?

Times do indeed change. Nothing is constant. And your point would be?

Dunno whether Jim has a point or not but he appears to have turned into Noel Coward.

[Paul]

This confuses me. Why should any American care about what others think of America?

You don't care what others think of America? Gobsmacked to be honest. As jim mk2 asks why do you spend so much time defending your country on here? Surely you should care. Personally I always try to ensure my behaviour provides a positive impression of the English, if only to counter the "Brits abroad" image we suffer from!

If your child's friends think drugs are cool, do you want him or her going along with the peer group? Or do you want them thinking for themselves and making their own decisions?

Obviously I want my children to make their own decisions but I'd expect to give them a serious amount of guidance on such a subject. I'm not quite clear if there is an analogy intended here but if there is perhaps the USA should be considering the guidance of countries which do have gun control and seem to have a smaller problem with children shooting each other while playing?

[Mike E]

There was an American interpretation on Charlie Brooker's show last night that our lack of guns combined with a public/state-funded NHS means we're more likely to be violent than Americans who may hit a man who has a gun and wouldn't be able to have the damage repaired for free.

I think it's a tad daft, but certainly a little food for thought (no I'll never support gun ownership for anything other than game-shooting).

[jim mk2]

Shows how twisted the US gun argument is getting. They'll be justifying the electric chair next.

[Steve Moss]

You don't care what others think of America? Gobsmacked to be honest. As jim mk2 asks why do you spend so much time defending your country on here? Surely you should care.

If you don't care what others think why are you always on here defending the US ?

I like debate. I like to test and challenge ideas. I don't like a herd mentality or platitudes.

For example, harping on and on about the "civilized" way of doing things. Which raises two questions, in my mind: 1) Who decides what is "civilized"; and, 2) Why is "civilized" better?

I think this sums up the problems with our current "civilized" way of thinking- http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/thin-strand-of-civilization/

[Stuart]

I like debate. I like to test and challenge ideas.

To be honest Steve, it sounds more like you enjoy the sport of rebutting arguments which are opposed to your own. Frequently returning to the same principles.

An old historic 'scripture' says that you are entitled to hold certain beliefs sacred, and you piously defend them against others from outside of your culture who view them as extremist.

Kind of ironic.

[Steve Moss]

To be honest Steve, it sounds more like you enjoy the sport of rebutting arguments which are opposed to your own. Frequently returning to the same principles.

An old historic 'scripture' says that you are entitled to hold certain beliefs sacred, and you piously defend them against others from outside of your culture who view them as extremist.

Kind of ironic.

And here I thought I was posing questions of politic philosophy with a lot of comparative data, none of which has been rebutted.

Two examples:

1. Your House of Commons report admits the reported homicide rate is not the actual rate, which is higher.

2. The UK's dramatically increased use of narrative verdicts in homicide (and suicide) cases which your intelligentsia has begun to concede may artificially lower your suicide rates, though they have not yet addressed your murder rate. Here's a rather obvious example- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrative_verdict

So we in the USA may be uncivilized boors, but at least we're not lying to ourselves.