[Archived] Gun Law Debate: Please keep posts civil and conversational

[jim mk2]

The US has a problem with gun violence which some of its more intelligent citizens are finally starting to recognise. Here's some educational information for you.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/about-gun-violence

[otto man]

The US has a problem with gun violence which some of its more intelligent citizens are finally starting to recognise. Here's some educational information for you.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/about-gun-violence

Please allow me to reciprocate.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/29/justice/us-violent-crime/index.html

Oh and you still haven't qualified that ridiculous, offensive tripe you came out with in your earlier post.

"The US is comfortable with this so presumably it is also comfortable with its children being killed in mass shootings on a regular basis."

[jim mk2]

This is offensive

Violence Takes a Massive Toll on American Children

• More than one in five U.S. teenagers (ages 14 to 17) report having witnessed a shooting.⁶
• An average of eight children and teens under the age of 20 are killed by guns every day.⁷
• American children die by guns 11 times as often as children in other high-income countries.⁸
• Youth (ages 0 to 19) in the most rural U.S. counties are as likely to die from a gunshot as those living in the most urban counties. Rural children die of more gun suicides and unintentional shooting deaths. Urban children die more often of gun homicides.⁹
• Firearm homicide is the second-leading cause of death (after motor vehicle crashes) for young people ages 1-19 in the U.S.¹⁰
• In 2007, more pre-school-aged children (85) were killed by guns than police officers were killed in the line of duty.¹¹

[otto man]

Still refusing to qualify your statement I see.

[jim mk2]

They're in the previous link - which you plainly couldn't be bothered to read.

[otto man]

They're in the previous link - which you plainly couldn't be bothered to read.

Your justification for this crass statement; "The US is comfortable with this so presumably it is also comfortable with its children being killed in mass shootings on a regular basis." is in a previous link? Where?

[Steve Moss]

Ok Steve, mass shootings are committed when crazy people shoot innocent people. And that's where you've stopped your analysis.

Well, let me blow your mind here. Ready.

You can't shoot people without a gun.

(Sorry for the toddler tone, but that picture was just moronic).

I pass a law tomorrow in the USA making private firearm ownership illegal. How do you intend to:

1. Get 310 million firearms off the streets? As Connecticut is finding out, the vast majority of gun owners will ignore the law. These people who are otherwise law-abiding tax payers. This isn't England were we doff our caps and mutter "Yes, m'lord."

2. Stop the private, illegal manufacture of firearms? Welcome to the future. People can now build semi-automatic firearms from 3-D printers. If the incentive exists (and drug money will create quite the incentive) the firearms will be on the street.

Gun crime, including murder, rates are decreasing in the USA over time despite more firearms. So unlike England, I chose to keep our historic liberties intact. I think you should be looking to do the same, and not become more restrictive, as your bans will become less and less effective as technology expands.

This is offensive

Violence Takes a Massive Toll on American Children

• More than one in five U.S. teenagers (ages 14 to 17) report having witnessed a shooting.⁶
• An average of eight children and teens under the age of 20 are killed by guns every day.⁷
• American children die by guns 11 times as often as children in other high-income countries.⁸
• Youth (ages 0 to 19) in the most rural U.S. counties are as likely to die from a gunshot as those living in the most urban counties. Rural children die of more gun suicides and unintentional shooting deaths. Urban children die more often of gun homicides.⁹
• Firearm homicide is the second-leading cause of death (after motor vehicle crashes) for young people ages 1-19 in the U.S.¹⁰
• In 2007, more pre-school-aged children (85) were killed by guns than police officers were killed in the line of duty.¹¹

I've seen these stats before. And the anti-gun crowd have to get the 18 and 19 year old adults included as "kids" to make the shock value work. You take take them out, and the stats plummet. The reason being the vast majority of them are 18 and 19 year old drug dealing, gang-bangers fighting for turf in the inner city.

[ABBEY]

Easy to sort .. Gun embargo .. Hand them in over a 2 month period and anyone caught with one gets shot in the head with it .after it

[Baz]

So your thoughts on Steve and the whole issue lack reason? Seems fair to me as you obviously don't understand that; (a). Guns don't kill people,people kill people and that,(b)Banning guns doesn't work either. Proof of the pudding being the rise of gun crime in the UK (Hand gun crime has more than doubled in the last 20 years or so) Do you think the drugs ban is working too? When will people realise that the answer is not to Legislate but to Educate?

A) That graph that says all mass shootings of children is down to "mentally disturbed people who dont care about laws", whilst you are also espousing that education will solve the "mentally disturbed people", and somehow thats logical?

never mentioned drugs, but the answer is to do both.

I apologise to Steve, as on reflection my previous post was a bit personal, but I do fundamentally disagree with most of his posts on this topic. I honestly believe its a difference in psyche between the UK where guns are seen as bad things and only for those who need one for their job (+ criminals), and the US where it seems to be more their "right" to have a gun and should only be denied in exceptional circumstance.

Mass shootings will happen if the shooter is determined, but theres a lot more deaths by gun in the USA caused by accident, by 'temporary madness', escalation of an argument that is only enlarged by the proliferation of guns. The state that is trying to ban guns is doing the right thing, if you refuse to sell more wholesale, do a big education piece across the state, start prosecuting a few big name locals in gangs, confiscating others when the police see them and have an amnesty, my guess is that the numbers will begin to reduce relatively quickly. Its just about reducing volume, not about criminalising the masses.

[Steve Moss]

Baz- I disagree with you about limiting what I consider the fundamental rights of a free people, but I appreciate that you feel as strongly about your position as I do, and I believe your comments are constructive.

Here's a decent summary of the Second Amendment, and includes a surprising quote from George Orwell-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/the-second-amendment-a-sy_b_4980918.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

[K-Hod]

Just watching daybreak, and they did a feature on a 'gun raffle' at Churches in upstate New York..

I don't think enough face palms can do this justice!!!

[Tom]

15 year old charged with murder after shooting someone in London

There seems to be more illegal firearms down there these days

Steve - people will never agree on this. When you grow up believing that owning a gun is a constitutional right then you are programmed to feel the need for them and its natural as owning a car, when you've never been exposed to that culture it seems insane and worrysome.

[ABBEY]

15 or not 15 the law should be shoot him in the head with his own gun .. Guns are for dickheads end of.

[speeeeeeedie]

Steve - people will never agree on this. When you grow up believing that owning a gun is a constitutional right then you are programmed to feel the need for them and its natural as owning a car, when you've never been exposed to that culture it seems insane and worrysome.

This is quite true. It's indelible to a large section of the American public. I would equate it to Brits being able to go to a betting shop, but much more pronounced.

I am not anti-gun but will never have one in my house. I don't understand them and think that they have the potential for much more harm than good.

I do like hunting though.

[Steve Moss]

15 year old charged with murder after shooting someone in London

There seems to be more illegal firearms down there these days

We'll see more of this as time goes on. Technology cannot be suppressed. With the arrival of 3D printing, any teenager who knows how to write code will be able to build a gun whenever desired in the next decade or so.

[yoda]

We'll see more of this as time goes on. Technology cannot be suppressed. With the arrival of 3D printing, any teenager who knows how to write code will be able to build a gun whenever desired in the next decade or so.

You would still need the chemicals for the firing agent

[ABBEY]

We'll see more of this as time goes on. Technology cannot be suppressed. With the arrival of 3D printing, any teenager who knows how to write code will be able to build a gun whenever desired in the next decade or so.

Real , fake or 3D all guns are for scum and lowlife human beings .. Armed forces aside.

If anyone has a gun and not serving then you are a lowlife disgusting person and if anyone is reading this and your in this bracket then you are included too .

[thenodrog]

This is quite true. It's indelible to a large section of the American public. I would equate it to Brits being able to go to a betting shop, but much more pronounced.

I am not anti-gun but will never have one in my house. I don't understand them and think that they have the potential for much more harm than good.

I do like hunting though.

Bow and arrow? Traps? Dogs?

[speeeeeeedie]

Real , fake or 3D all guns are for scum and lowlife human beings .. Armed forces aside.

If anyone has a gun and not serving then you are a lowlife disgusting person and if anyone is reading this and your in this bracket then you are included too .

Do you always make sweeping generalisations? What about farmers?

Bow and arrow? Traps? Dogs?

Bow and arrow, or shot guns. I've only been a couple of times but it's a decent day out. To top it off, if you manage to shoot something you get free meat for a while.

[ABBEY]

Do you always make sweeping generalisations? What about farmers?

What abouth them?

Do they actually need guns? If they do then fair do's

I WILL MAKE IT SIMPLE SO SIMPLE FOLK CAN UNDERSTAND......ANY NORMAL JOE PUBLIC IS A BELL END AND RETARDED GANSTER IF THEY NEED TO CARRY OR OWN A GUN.

[thenodrog]

What abouth them?

Do they actually need guns? If they do then fair do's

Definitely! It's currently lambing time and the predators are legion. Carrion crows will have a lambs eyes out should the mother be distracted even for a minute, foxes will obviously take the lambs themselves and there is the constant threat of mass slaughter of sheep and lambs from marauding pet dogs.

Must say I'm a little surprised you said that Abbs cos Abbey Village is literally surrounded on all sides by sheep farms.

[ABBEY]

To tell the truth in all my time I lived there I never saw any guns .

[Mike E]

They're not exactly public about it. In fact anyone with considerable land would be likely to own a gun to shoot vermin such as rabbits, rats or moles.

[thenodrog]

They're not exactly public about it. In fact anyone with considerable land would be likely to own a gun to shoot vermin such as rabbits, rats or moles.

Moles? Do they have X-Ray rifle sights in Darren Mike?

[Paul]

Definitely!   It's currently lambing time and the predators are legion.  Carrion crows will have a lambs eyes out should the mother be distracted even for a minute, foxes will obviously take the lambs themselves and there is the constant threat of mass slaughter of sheep and lambs from marauding pet dogs.    

Must say I'm a little surprised you said that Abbs cos Abbey Village is literally surrounded on all sides by sheep farms.

While I agree farmers do need a shotgun you're over egging it a bit there. I don't disagree with the dangers but if they were as great as you're implying the fields would be a killing ground.

As for guns round Abbey Village. The only gunfire one ever hears in the area is the Sunday morning clay pigeon shoot towards Brindle - bloody noisy as well!!