[Archived] Gun Law Debate: Please keep posts civil and conversational

[Steve Moss]

The key word being 'rare'

Rare video, not a rare occurrence.

Even the anti-gun crowd concede that gun possession deters a not insignificant amount of crime.

[otto man]

Well done sir! That takes some major balls. Society definitely needs a few more like him.

[ultrablue]

Just looking at that video gives me a slightly sick feeling.

1. I don't like the use of the word "good samaritan". I don't remember the part of that parable where someone pulled out a handgun and threatened to shoot someone.

2. So that guy was willing to shoot and injure two perfect strangers because they snatched a woman's bag. I just don't understand that mentality.

3. Next time those two are out snatching bags (and they probably will be soon) they are more likely to be armed themselves.

The whole situation is just completely foreign to me and one I find very troubling. Clearly it's a cultural thing and a significant number of Americans share my concerns. I love the US, visited many times, lived inTexas for over a year and thankfully never saw anything like this. But I am more thankful that I don't live in a culture that celebrates violence in this way.

[thenodrog]

Just looking at that video gives me a slightly sick feeling.

1. I don't like the use of the word "good samaritan". I don't remember the part of that parable where someone pulled out a handgun and threatened to shoot someone.

2. So that guy was willing to shoot and injure two perfect strangers because they snatched a woman's bag. I just don't understand that mentality.

3. Next time those two are out snatching bags (and they probably will be soon) they are more likely to be armed themselves.

The whole situation is just completely foreign to me and one I find very troubling. Clearly it's a cultural thing and a significant number of Americans share my concerns. I love the US, visited many times, lived inTexas for over a year and thankfully never saw anything like this. But I am more thankful that I don't live in a culture that celebrates violence in this way.

What a pathetic anti social attitude. That 'mentality' is a citizens arrest. Obviously you would have looked at the ground and shuffled past the victim on " the other side of the road".

There is good and bad and there is also right and wrong and you have just failed to identify both. You mention those two getting a weapon next time, how do you know they didn't have one then? Also 'Next time' would prob have been within the hour at another shopping centre and it might easily be either you or yours.

[ultrablue]

Subtely of ideas seem to be lost on you mate. I'll make it clearer for you.

So given the chance you'd like to wander around Blackburn with a gun just in case you could stop a mugging. That's your measure of good citizenship?

Well why wait for the gun laws to change? You could walk out your house right now with a kitchen knife down your pants and whip it out at the first sign of danger, then hold it to the blokes throat til the police show up. What a hero!

it's the weapon and level of threat, not the intervention I have a problem with. The man in the video took action out of bravery and concern for a fellow citizen. Well done him. I'd like to think I'd try to take action too. I'm sure we all would. But the idea of the average bloke carrying a firearm with the intent to point it at a human being, and to be willing to shoot if he thinks he needs to. That is something Im very unsure about and I believe is ultimately counter productive. I'm happy it isnt allowed to happen where I live.

[OxSouthernRover]

On the subject of American gun debate. It's not really a situation that can be treated in the same way as we have here in England. They have a codified constitution which Obama has promised to abide by. Obama and the majority of Americans want to protect the constitution and won't stand for it being undermined if legislation on Gun's gets passed. The problem with banning all guns is basically then the law-abiding citizens would be undefended. Lets be honest, the majority of gun deaths in America are over Gang Wars. Taking away guns wouldn't work because there's always going to be a Black Market, therefore you'd be basically taking away guns from the law-abiding citizens and being unable to do anything about a inevitable black market, leaving the law-abiding citizens defenceless.

It's a real problem with these high school massacres though, but seeing as they account for under 1% of gun deaths, pistol legislation needs to be the priority for Gun Legislation.

Check out the video below if you want to see my stance on gun control (I side with Ben Shapiro).

How do you propose we do that, Drog? It's true that a lot of mentally ill patients slip through the net, and consider that any system is open to human error, but some people appear perfectly balanced until they snap for one reason or another and go postal. How are you supposed to prevent that?

Background Checks. Would stop quite a few mentally unstable people from getting guns.

[jim mk2]

The problem with banning all guns is basically then the law-abiding citizens would be undefended.

Background Checks. Would stop quite a few mentally unstable people from getting guns.

Guns bans work very well in Britain - and we don't have mass shootings on a regular basis or people gunned down in the cinema because they used a mobile phone. Spot the connection ?

Never mind the mentally unstable - Americans should ask themselves why mentally stable people feel the need to arm themselves.

The US Constitution needs repealing. As it stands the US is a sick society.

[Steve Moss]

Jim-

What do you say to the statistics that indicate that the UK homicide rate has increased since your gun bans?

[OxSouthernRover]

- Americans should ask themselves why mentally stable people feel the need to arm themselves.

Well, the answer is that If they aren't armed, they feel defenceless, as gun deaths are far more frequent in America.

[otto man]

Guns bans work very well in Britain - and we don't have mass shootings on a regular basis or people gunned down in the cinema because they used a mobile phone. Spot the connection ?

Never mind the mentally unstable - Americans should ask themselves why mentally stable people feel the need to arm themselves.

The US Constitution needs repealing. As it stands the US is a sick society.

As it is part of their constitution and as such an indelible right, it would be akin to asking you to surrender your right to freedom of speech.

[OxSouthernRover]

It would be like our Govt, telling us that we could have no locks on doors. It's a big deal to them..

[Steve Moss]

Government shouldn't be telling us anything, other than the basics of don't murder, don't rape and don't steal, but do pay your taxes.

With those taxes it should be building schools, roads and bridges, and funding the military.

Other than that, it should be out of our lives.

[perthblue02]

As it is part of their constitution and as such an indelible right, it would be akin to asking you to surrender your right to freedom of speech.

If that's the case, then let every American have a gun, lock down the borders, nobody leaves and check back in a couple of years time and see if the constitution possibly needs changing. Surely this idea would not be opposed by the NRA as it's a fundamental part of playing at being a cowboy apparently.

Better still make it a new series on A & E, they seem to have a boner for anything gun related

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Well, the answer is that If they aren't armed, they feel defenceless, as gun deaths are far more frequent in America.

Mm, I wonder why that is !

[thenodrog]

Guns bans work very well in Britain - and we don't have mass shootings on a regular basis or people gunned down in the cinema because they used a mobile phone. Spot the connection ?

Never mind the mentally unstable - Americans should ask themselves why mentally stable people feel the need to arm themselves.

The US Constitution needs repealing. As it stands the US is a sick society.

The biter bit.......... As you say the gun bans here mean that the mentally unstable, moonstruck and assorted whiptops find it difficult to obtain guns at the drop of a hat which is obviously good but the (more rational I suggest) criminal element don't appear to have many problems getting hold of them.

As it is part of their constitution and as such an indelible right, it would be akin to asking you to surrender your right to freedom of speech.

He did .... and he's only just got it back again!

Sorry Victor ...... I couldn't resist!

[Steve Moss]

Here is a sampling of some comparative homicide statistics for the last century:

1910 USA 4.6

1910 England .81

1920 USA 6.8

1920 England .83

1930 USA 8.8

1930 England .75

1946 USA 6.4

1946 England .81

1950 USA 4.6

1950 England .79

1960 USA 5.1

1960 England .62

1970 USA 7.9

1970 England .69

1980 USA 10.2

1980 England 1.11

1990 USA 9.4

1990 England 1.02

2000 USA 5.5

2000 England 1.71

2010 USA 4.8

2010 England 1.23

Source- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_by_decade

Please note I did not use 1940 as the homicide rate was not listed for England during WWII. I used the first date following WWII.

Some other key dates:

1920 was England's first major gun control (prompted by a fear of a worker's revolution, not crime).

1965 England abolished the death penalty.

1968 restricting shotguns.

1988 further restricting shotguns

1997 banning handguns.

I think it fairly obvious that your gun bans have done nothing to decrease your recorded (a word with lots of wiggle room) murder rate.

[ABBEY]

Murderers are scum however they do it .

Gun owners like I have said before are small minded with small willy syndrome .

Real men don't need guns cowards do .

[Stuart]

Goldie Lookin Shaun.

[thenodrog]

Murderers are scum however they do it .

Gun owners like I have said before are small minded with small willy syndrome .

Real men don't need guns cowards do .

I may be accused of being obtuse here but how do real men deal with magpies, carrion crows, foxes and grey squirrells Abbey? Poison is indiscriminate and dangerous, traps are cruel and not many real men have wings. I think rule 1 is to distinguish between pistols and rifles. Rifles can be used for a numbver of purposes but pistols main use imo being solely to kill humans.

[ABBEY]

Nowt to do with me . Don't have any here.

[Steve Moss]

Another article on 3-D guns.

http://www.wired.com/2014/05/3d-printed-guns/

[ABBEY]

- Roddy White's Brother Shot Dead
http://www.nflnewsdirect.com/may-news

[ultrablue]

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/snqfxc/shooters

The NRA shoots itself in the foot, but maintains that's what it wants to do.

[Steve Moss]

I actually like the smart gun concept. I hope it can be developed further.

[ultrablue]

It's a great concept that the NRA, as advocates of gun safety, should be getting right behind.