[Archived] Gun Law Debate: Please keep posts civil and conversational

[Tom]

Awful stuff over there; the treatment of young black men by the police has been highlighted again and again and is shocking with the police given carte Blanche to murder when they see fit with little chance of punishment but this kind of retaliation is ghastly and is only going to lead to horrible things.

No idea how this gets resolved.

Just awful.

[yoda]

Awful stuff over there; the treatment of young black men by the police has been highlighted again and again and is shocking with the police given carte Blanche to murder when they see fit but this kind of retaliation is only going to lead to horrible things.

No idea how this gets resolved.

Just awful.

Melt down all the guns

[Tom]

If only mate, you only have to speak to a gun lover from there and you realise the battle the rational folk face.

If Obama couldn't sort it I don't see any hope going forward.

[Baz]

Every time I hear of these things in the US, the more the film The Running Man looks less far fetched.

Global economic crisis, walls being built around the US, people having to run the gauntlet to try and maintain their freedom.....

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I'm not sure it's mainly been racism from the US police, no doubt there are some examples of that, but in the main I think it's been this approach/attitude of "we're the biggest gang around here".

So they've always hit gangs and violent crime in particular very hard. Some would argue that's the way to do it, and certainly I've heard it said more than a few times that are own police should be more like that. The problem with that approach though is they've now encountered a situation where they aren't the biggest gang around.

The black community have risen up en masse in support of gang members and thugs being killed. Because let's not forget that's what the vast majority of these trigger point killings are, the police's brutal, over-the-top responses to serious lawbreakers, not nice people.

And a result the police are now on the back foot, are now vulnerable and now open to attack. There needs to be an amnesty and show of restraint on both sides. The police need to demonstrate a new, more humane approach and, once they've witnessed this, the black community need to then turn on the people trying to kill cops.

[Mike E]

I'm not sure it's mainly been racism from the US police, no doubt there are some examples of that, but in the main I think it's been this approach/attitude of "we're the biggest gang around here".

So they've always hit gangs and violent crime in particular very hard. Some would argue that's the way to do it, and certainly I've heard it said more than a few times that are own police should be more like that. The problem with that approach though is they've now encountered a situation where they aren't the biggest gang around.

The black community have risen up en masse in support of gang members and thugs being killed. Because let's not forget that's what the vast majority of these trigger point killings are, the police's brutal, over-the-top responses to serious lawbreakers, not nice people.

And a result the police are now on the back foot, are now vulnerable and now open to attack. There needs to be an amnesty and show of restraint on both sides. The police need to demonstrate a new, more humane approach and, once they've witnessed this, the black community need to then turn on the people trying to kill cops.

None of the three more publicised killings were of gang members, but of ordinary citizens. The most shocking (imo) involving the white, unarmed young man, twice while he was immobile on the floor!

The two incidents involving black men were a little more complex, but neither man had reached for a weapon before being shot (according to reports and footage).

This a policing problem of being unable to distinguish appropriately between threats and being allowed to threaten 'deadly force' on whomever they like.

[Audax]

Found this editorial; I'm not saying I agree with it all but it might be worth considering. Excerpt of one paragraph that cuts to the chase.

One group is responsible for America’s culture of violence, and it isn’t cops, black Americans, Muslims or rednecks. It’s men
By: Melissa Batchelor Warnke

In the United States, 98% of those who commit mass shootings are male; 98% of the officers who have shot and killed civilians are male; 90% of those who commit homicide by any means are male; and 80% of those arrested for all violent crimes — murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault — are male.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-police-mass-shooting-men-women-gender-20160715-snap-story.html

Unbelievably, I think overall; the murder rate has actually gone down, fairly steadily, there might be a year ever so often where it spikes up. But it sure doesn't seem that way.

[tonyoz]

None of the three more publicised killings were of gang members, but of ordinary citizens. The most shocking (imo) involving the white, unarmed young man, twice while he was immobile on the floor!

The two incidents involving black men were a little more complex, but neither man had reached for a weapon before being shot (according to reports and footage).

This a policing problem of being unable to distinguish appropriately between threats and being allowed to threaten 'deadly force' on whomever they like.

The other scary thing to arise from all this..................the policemen often show little sign that their training has been effective. Not only do they shoot defenceless citizens, but they seem to panic and empty their guns into the poor victim! If the trained police lose control of their actions, God knows what untrained members of the public are capable of.

[Baz]

The propensity of guns within the general population surely doesn't help either.

In this country theres very little chance (I don't know the exact figure) of the police encountering someone with a gun, in the US that figure is several factors higher, and because of that it must be on their mind at every turn- that fear must make them (for want of a better term) even subconsciously twitchy.

[Husky]

With 'a terrorist hiding on every street corner' and things set to get worse as life progreses.

The right to bear arms in the UK is seeming like a better and better idea. After all it seems only the 'terrorists', criminals and government stasi have them . . . and I wouldn't want to be poweless in the face of that @#/?.

[Paul]

Do you really believe having a gun in your pocket is going to protect you against a terrorist attack?

According to David Cameron the security forces prevented 7 terrorist attacks in the second half of 2015. It's number 8 the public have to worry about and if the security forces don't spot it the chances of armed civilians doing so are negligible.

[ultrablue]

If you are able to buy a gun, that means that numpty down the street can buy one too.

I think everyone in the UK is quite happy with their freedom from worrying about the nutter at number 24 getting his hands on a deadly weapon.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

With 'a terrorist hiding on every street corner' and things set to get worse as life progreses.

The right to bear arms in the UK is seeming like a better and better idea. After all it seems only the 'terrorists', criminals and government stasi have them . . . and I wouldn't want to be poweless in the face of that @#/?.

A thousand times no in my opinion. Whilst I'd be quite happy to shoot a terrorist (I'd probably aim for the crotch first), guns cause far more problems than they solve.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Absolutely disgusting the latest shooting of that autistic guy's carer. I've changed my mind on it now, the police are the main problem here and there needs to be a complete overhaul of the entire force. There's clearly too many cretinous individuals with a god-complex working in it.

[K-Hod]

I just worry what the police training consists of, as in that video the couldn't be less of a threat, unreal.

[Mike E]

'Why did you shoot me?'

'I don't know.'

What the hell kind of policing is that?

[Tom]

It just made no sense

The autistic guy was suicidal the call for the police was for assistance, at no point was he a threat to anybody.

The guy helping him is a hero yet shot and then worse of all cuffed afterwards for no reason apart from being guilty of being black it would seem.

There's no accountability that's the problem.

The other issue is if the only tool you have is a hammer then every problem becomes a nail!

[perthblue02]

Can see this ending well

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36948149

[dave birch]

Some interesting stats for you good people as well::

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-03/las-vegas-six-things-to-know-about-mass-shootings-in-america/9011096

[joey_big_nose]

Some second amendments proponents are beginning to amend their position. It's seems crazy that it requires an incident like that to do so, but there it is.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/identities/2017/10/2/16404900/josh-abbott-band-guitarist-caleb-keeter-las-vegas-shooting-gun-control

[Mike E]

I'm trying to make sense of his motive. Imo, he either:

1. Snapped completely.

Or

2. Wanted to show just how easy it is for any law abiding citizen, with no previous, to one day become a deadly killer, all because of the awful interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

Twisted. But how on earth has this been able to carry on? 89 guns owned per 100 citizens, I heard on Radio4 today

[Baz]

29 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I'm trying to make sense of his motive. Imo, he either:

1. Snapped completely.

Or

2. Wanted to show just how easy it is for any law abiding citizen, with no previous, to one day become a deadly killer, all because of the awful interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

Twisted. But how on earth has this been able to carry on? 89 guns owned per 100 citizens, I heard on Radio4 today

He didn't snap. It was carefully planned. His partner was in the Philippines, and he transferred her 100k in the couple of days before.

He spent a lot of time and effort to get all the equipment up to the room over a few days, which also means he hid it from laundry, or stopped cleaners entering in that period. He booked the hotel in advance, choosing a room on a high floor overlooking the concert. 

We don't know the motive, but it's not the actions of someone who has snapped. It may be the case he had some mental issues, however it's not a snap decision he made.

If I were to make a guess, it would be to do with the partner leaving the country, so possibly some kind of relationship break up, and him wanting to kill himself and take out as many as possible with him.

[JacknOry]

2 hours ago, Baz said:

He didn't snap. It was carefully planned. His partner was in the Philippines, and he transferred her 100k in the couple of days before.

He spent a lot of time and effort to get all the equipment up to the room over a few days, which also means he hid it from laundry, or stopped cleaners entering in that period. He booked the hotel in advance, choosing a room on a high floor overlooking the concert. 

We don't know the motive, but it's not the actions of someone who has snapped. It may be the case he had some mental issues, however it's not a snap decision he made.

If I were to make a guess, it would be to do with the partner leaving the country, so possibly some kind of relationship break up, and him wanting to kill himself and take out as many as possible with him.

I read he even placed cameras inside and outside of his room so that he could see anyone approaching the room. This was a wealthy guy too, well surely you have to be to afford 50 weapons in the first place. This was planned to a tee with him bringing in the arsenal over a three day period via suitcases since booking the hotel. Scoped, 'legally' custom stocked assault rifles to be able to fire fully automatic. Had two of them set up on tripods from two different windows.

Some of the latest footage going about is horrific to say the least.

 

[JacknOry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmv8aQKO6k0

[speeeeeeedie]

32 year old shot dead by 14 year old boy in Ossy

Some interesting comments regarding the circumstances around it.