[Archived] Gun Law Debate: Please keep posts civil and conversational

[JacknOry]

On 10/27/2017 at 22:35, speeeeeeedie said:

32 year old shot dead by 14 year old boy in Ossy

Some interesting comments regarding the circumstances around it.

Yeah the comments are certainly interesting as evrybody has their own opinions on what happened. However, from what I gather it is the father that has been arrested for murder - not the 14-year old son.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/15629703.Man_appears_in_court_charged_with_Oswaldwistle_murder/?ref=mr&lp=1

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

A thing that amazed me about the latest terrorist incident in the US was that the guy had imitation firearms ! Why didn't he just go into the supermarket and buy himself an assault rifle or two.

[Tom]

27 more dead in a church shooting in Texas 

In 309 days this year the USA has had 307 mass shootings

[perthblue02]

6 hours ago, Tom said:

27 more dead in a church shooting in Texas 

In 309 days this year the USA has had 307 mass shootings

Wonder what other hobbies people were doing for the two missing days

Anyway not to worry, thoughts and prayers (ironically) aplenty from the NRA and its members/supporters, that will sort it

[cmb211087]

12 hours ago, Tom said:

27 more dead in a church shooting in Texas 

In 309 days this year the USA has had 307 mass shootings

I read a stat that 113 people had died from being shot in the USA in November alone up to yesterday....5 days!

[blueboy3333]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/06/this-isnt-a-guns-situation-says-trump-after-texas-church-shooting

Idiot.

[Paul]

I was struck by how low down the news running order this latest atrocity was. 

[Baz]

On 07/11/2017 at 07:21, Paul said:

I was struck by how low down the news running order this latest atrocity was. 

It's truly awful, but if people aren't willing to do anything to resolve it, then sympathy and concern will ebb away. At least with Obama he wanted to look at the issue, Trump isn't interested as the NRA are big backers of his party.

It's strange that someone so keen to stop terrorism in the US, cannot see these as acts of terror unless they are committed by foreigners.

[Dreyski]

Bumping this because at least 17 people have died in the latest school shooting - a source I read said the 12th this year. 12 in 45 days. People who could do something about this will offer prayers, but nothing else, because one side effect of these situations is that gun sales rocket, and approximately 25% of the profit gets funnelled into Republican Campaign financing.

The shooter was an expelled former student, armed with an AR-15. You need a weapon like that for one reason, and one reason only.

[Paul]

Yes, depending on the report one reads there have been 8 - 12 school shootings in 2018, all less grave in numbers but equally awful.

Living in Europe I don’t think it’s possible for us to understand the American infatuation with guns and the belief possessing one offers “freedom.” The other question, again difficult to understand, is what is it, what has gone wrong, in or with American society that “shooters” think this way? It doesn’t seem to happen anywhere else in the world.

The UK and USA supposedly have close ties and a special relationship. I feel we have cultures which have grown so far apart it’s difficult to understand just how the average American thinks. America has to be the most self-centred, inward looking culture in the modern world.

 

[speeeeeeedie]

7 hours ago, Paul said:

Yes, depending on the report one reads there have been 8 - 12 school shootings in 2018, all less grave in numbers but equally awful.

Living in Europe I don’t think it’s possible for us to understand the American infatuation with guns and the belief possessing one offers “freedom.” The other question, again difficult to understand, is what is it, what has gone wrong, in or with American society that “shooters” think this way? It doesn’t seem to happen anywhere else in the world.

The UK and USA supposedly have close ties and a special relationship. I feel we have cultures which have grown so far apart it’s difficult to understand just how the average American thinks. America has to be the most self-centred, inward looking culture in the modern world.

 

Unfortunately the "thoughts and prayers" response has become a parody. One survivor said that he wasn't shocked as it happens all the time. He was 17.

There are lots of people to blame, but ultimately a lack of strong political intervention keeps these horrific acts alive.

Authorities still have no idea what motivated the Las Vegas killer, but this latest one is a classic case. Nutcase teenager, school weirdo with no friends, fascinated by guns, lack of stability at home. Everyone knew he was a lunatic, but you can't lock people up before they've done anything.

I do take exception to the bit in bold. You live in a country that voted for Brexit. Talk about self centered an inward looking.

[Paul]

1 hour ago, speeeeeeedie said:

I do take exception to the bit in bold. You live in a country that voted for Brexit. Talk about self centered an inward looking.

Touché. You’re right there, I can’t argue with that - though 48% of us aren’t. ?

[Mattyblue]

I would recommend the BBC's North America Editor, John Sopel's book, 'If Only They Didn't Speak English'.

Each chapter delves into an aspect of US society; guns, religion etc, a great read and the title alludes to the fact that us Brits often think we share a similar culture, but the English language aside we are very different.

[speeeeeeedie]

7 minutes ago, Paul said:

Touché. You’re right there, I can’t argue with that - though 48% of us aren’t. ?

I had to. It was an easy set up from you.

The USA has it's quirks but I'd estimate that over 50% of the population is amenable to enacting meaningful gun laws. However, the current the US political climate isn't a place where that will happen.

Obama had 2 years to do something meaningful as Democrats had the House, Senate, and presidency. He chose healthcare, and it cost him the House and Senate. Trump has all 3 at the moment so if anything expect the opposite.

 

[jim mk2]

 

Watching the news now I see the "mental illness not guns is the problem" is being trotted out as usual. Trump even blamed the local community for not spotting the "shooter" was mentally ill. 

[Mike E]

3 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Watching the news now I see the "mental illness not guns is the problem" is being trotted out as usual. Trump even blamed the local community for not spotting the "shooter" was mentally ill. 

Why does nobody ever acknowledge that a person without a weapon cannot use it? It is THAT simple! You'll get the odd rogue, but these people are then prosecuted.

Guns being legal isn't a 'freedom', because it means anyone at any time may shoot you. Freedom is knowing that you will in all likelihood not be killed by someone else while going about your business.

[davulsukur]

20 hours ago, Dreyski said:

Bumping this because at least 17 people have died in the latest school shooting - a source I read said the 12th this year. 12 in 45 days. People who could do something about this will offer prayers, but nothing else, because one side effect of these situations is that gun sales rocket, and approximately 25% of the profit gets funnelled into Republican Campaign financing.

The shooter was an expelled former student, armed with an AR-15. You need a weapon like that for one reason, and one reason only.

A few weeks ago a 12 year old girl accidentally shot 2 people. The article, written on 2nd Feb said that was the 166th accidental shooting this year. 

12 intentional, 166 unintentional. The numbers are staggering.

[Baz]

It's down to mentally ill people, according to Trump, the same people he overturned Obamas legislation on, to allow gun ownership.

Oh and the FBI where told, that' the next to blame, I wonder how many cases the FBI are asked to review every year.

[Paul]

I read in the Guardian recently that in the UK the same firearm is often used in multiple different crimes and not necessarily by the same person. There are obviously negative aspects to the story but one positive is it illustrates how effective UK gun control is - if firearms were freely available it’s hard to imagine the same weapon being in circulation for seven years and used in 19 different crimes.

I can’t find the recent article but here’s a link to the same subject from July 2017.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/25/gun-seized-merseyside-most-criminally-used-firearm-britain

[Vinjay]

I've just made a post on Trump and gun control on the specific Trump thread so not going into his views here.

It's a US domestic issue (rather than global) so really its not something that I feel is relevant to my everyday life. Call that heartless if you want but if there's a mass shooting in Papua New Guinea it wouldn't be mentioned as much would it? There's only so many issues you can prioritise and this for me isn't really one of them. That said I'm certainly of the opinion that there ought to be much tighter regulations that the pro gun lobbyists should accept. On the other hand how would you all go about implementing a mass gun confiscation programme? Apparently it happened to Australia on a smaller scale and it didn't really work or make any difference. So who's to say it would work in the US? I think some things are just too ingrained in culture to be eradicated altogether. Yeah the constitutional argument is outdated but you can't just overturn it overnight.

 

[K-Hod]

59 minutes ago, Vinjay17 said:

I've just made a post on Trump and gun control on the specific Trump thread so not going into his views here.

It's a US domestic issue (rather than global) so really its not something that I feel is relevant to my everyday life. Call that heartless if you want but if there's a mass shooting in Papua New Guinea it wouldn't be mentioned as much would it? There's only so many issues you can prioritise and this for me isn't really one of them. That said I'm certainly of the opinion that there ought to be much tighter regulations that the pro gun lobbyists should accept. On the other hand how would you all go about implementing a mass gun confiscation programme? Apparently it happened to Australia on a smaller scale and it didn't really work or make any difference. So who's to say it would work in the US? I think some things are just too ingrained in culture to be eradicated altogether. Yeah the constitutional argument is outdated but you can't just overturn it overnight.

 

Re the bit in bold, only that there have been no mass shootings since. But yeah, other than that, it's been pointless.......

[Vinjay]

Will post this article as a response to that. It also notes (as I discussed above) just how difficult it would be for federal agents to carry out "door to door" confiscations.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/425021/australia-gun-control-obama-america

[K-Hod]

I do think that trying to confiscate everyone's guns would result in basically a civil war and I don't think there is a solution to the problem, it's too far gone.

It's ultimately very sad that Americans are more bothered about owning what are basically killing machines than having universal access to healthcare.

It's completely unnecessary to own some of the firearms that Americans do, but they do and they'll just have to accept mass shootings as the reality every once in a while.

All that will happen going forward is that people with any sense of brain power will realise it's tragic, avoidable and a senseless waste of life, put a profile frame on their Facebook photo, pray (or say they are doing) for the city affected then crack on with their daily lives.

[Tom]

Brilliant from Don Lemon here (never heard of him before) he points out some obvious facts that need highlighting 

 

 

[JacknOry]

How many more kids need to die before they do something? 

This kid was apparently reported to the FBI after he basically stated in a comment on a YouTube video that he plans to become a professional mass shooter.

How does a 19 year old manage to legally buy an assault rifle? They are selling Ar-15s to kids and then blame it on mental health.