[Archived] An Uneasy Truce

[Mattyblue]

Though I disagree with the crux, tis a decent thread Stuart.

However, this is a typical brfcs.com heads up arses debate, what percentage of the fanbase read this site? At the ground some will boo, some will have a go at the booers, and it will be an all round depressing experience will incur.

Nothing will change till he goes.

[den]

That's what I'm trying to say Matty.

Apart from that, it isn't pointless to let the owners and Kean know the fans feelings.

[PAFELL]

well there has been 4 matches already and we have lost 3 of them.

Most pre-season friendles are about fitness. Though I hope shebby singh does not see them that way.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

And sitting across Spotland from you, Tom; what I learned on Wednesday night is that the chants, particularly on a ground like that for a pre-season match win us no sympathy with opposition fans.

Now some may say, "So what?"; but if, God forbid, we ever get to where Portsmouth are, then we'll need as much support from fans of other clubs. Look at the financial and moral support Darlington got last season; I'm not sure we'd get as much if we were in the mire.

After the disgraceful treatment of our fans by the wider football world last season, I'd spit on their money and tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. We're either buying the title, can't fill our ground, too dirty, too long ball, and now apparently rubbish fans. Opposition fans should be treated as our enemy, they've never once treated us fairly and sided with Kean when our premiership status was on the line. I wouldn't ever want their help, and if we're annoying them, great.

[K-Hod]

After the disgraceful treatment of our fans by the wider football world last season, I'd spit on their money and tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. We're either buying the title, can't fill our ground, too dirty, too long ball, and now apparently rubbish fans. Opposition fans should be treated as our enemy, they've never once treated us fairly and sided with Kean when our premiership status was on the line. I wouldn't ever want their help, and if we're annoying them, great.

+1

[DeadlyDirk]

Kean Out! I don't want truces, clean slates, 'judge me after so and so' talk.

We have judged you Steve, you are not up to the job and need to be removed from the club, it's really that simple and would be a huge step in the right direction of rebuilding the bridges between the club and fans.

This has to work both ways, it's always the fans who are being asked to come to some agreement when they never want to answer any of our demands.

[Stuart]

Though I disagree with the crux, tis a decent thread Stuart.

However, this is a typical brfcs.com heads up arses debate, what percentage of the fanbase read this site? At the ground some will boo, some will have a go at the booers, and it will be an all round depressing experience will incur.

Nothing will change till he goes.

But you could make the same statement for 99% of the debates on here - or any fan site, Matty.

It just seems so futile and depressing to continue shouting Kean Out knowing that, if anything, all it will do is make them dig their heels in harder, creating a seige mentality amongst the players, management and owners AGAINST the fans. We can expect more Bradley Orr type statements not less. The problem these days is that the fans no longer pay the players wages do their opinions are no longer important.

It seems as though the more we rail against him, the longer he is likely to be here.

If Shebby really is our only hope (and I'm not convinced he is - although at least is communicating with fans) then we surely have to cautiously give him the means to be able to say to Venkys:

"Look, I've spoken to the fans they are actually reasonable people, not the Neanderthals that Kean may have suggested on his requisition for a bodyguard."

Or

"Well Mrs D. The fans have been supportive, in spite of them still having serious misgivings, but we are still losing matches. Kean must go."

Then see what the fall out is.

I'm just sick of being angry all the time. It's not achieving ANYTHING.

5 games.

[Baz]

Good questions Baz.

I'm not sure I've got an answer but surely we have to give new people a chance to let us down? Shebby, Hendry?

If Shebby doesn't have the power to do anything yet wants people to think he has, let's call his bluff. If we are so convinced Kean is going to take us down or whatever then what are we worried about? That he will succeed? Well if he succeeds it's good for Blackburn Rovers, isn't it? If he fails, then we've put Shebby well and truly on the spot.

If he gets off to a bad start - it will be obvious. At which point Shebby must act. If he doesn't then he has no power or is just like all of the rest of the line-toe-ers. But I think we have to give him the opportunity to stand up to his words.

As for how many games, then I've not idea. If we use the arbitrary 5 games mentioned (by someone) that's 15 points available - and I don't believe we have an awful start. Anything less than 9 points from those games and I'd call it a bad start. However you are right, it's abritrary - some could say 12 points or 5 points. We're all different.

For the record, I'm as sceptical as anyone of Shebby but if we do get off to a bad start, I don't want anyone - least of all our own fans - to be able to say "Well it's the fans fault they are creating a bad atmosphere and are just as culpable as Kean".

Let me be quite clear too. I will NEVER support Steve Kean - ever (despite the "well you've bought a season ticket so be default you do - yadayada"). But if he is able to get Blackburn Rovers to win enough games to get us promotion then that's got to be good, hasn't it? He will NOT be here for EVER (although it may feel like it) and when he does go I want us to not be in the position Portsmouth are in.

I understand what you are trying to do, to try something new, to try to put pressure on in another way. However, what you are asking for is nigh on impossible to achieve. Maybe something you could put to Shebby at the Q&A? But it would need the buy in of all the fans plus the club to put it out publicly that Kean needed x point from the first x games or he would be removed. IF the fans were to get a Public statement along these lines, then I do think they would lay off protests for the set period, however it's a massive long shot, and very unlikely.

[K-Hod]

I understand what you are trying to do, to try something new, to try to put pressure on in another way. However, what you are asking for is nigh on impossible to achieve. Maybe something you could put to Shebby at the Q&A? But it would need the buy in of all the fans plus the club to put it out publicly that Kean needed x point from the first x games or he would be removed. IF the fans were to get a Public statement along these lines, then I do think they would lay off protests for the set period, however it's a massive long shot, and very unlikely.

Adding to that- as soon as we go 1-0 down, you just know we'll be hearing 'Kean out' before long....

[ross-shire rover]

Kean should never have been appointed. He should have been sacked at the end of the first season when he took us down to the last game. He should have been sacked on countless occasions during the following season. He should have been sacked when were relegated. He should have been sacked when he visited India to meet the owners. He probably should have been sacked when he embarrassed himself and the club with his videotaped diatribe about the ex-manager. There is no logical explanation as to why he has not been sacked. The owners have insulted the club and fans by not sacking him.

So all this talk of give him 5 games, 5 minutes, 2 games, 2 seasons, till further relegation ........ is pretty meaningless to me.

[John]

Kean should never have been appointed. He should have been sacked at the end of the first season when he took us down to the last game. He should have been sacked on countless occasions during the following season. He should have been sacked when were relegated. He should have been sacked when he visited India to meet the owners. He probably should have been sacked when he embarrassed himself and the club with his videotaped diatribe about the ex-manager. There is no logical explanation as to why he has not been sacked. The owners have insulted the club and fans by not sacking him.

So all this talk of give him 5 games, 5 minutes, 2 games, 2 seasons, till further relegation ........ is pretty meaningless to me.

Good summary - should never have got the job in the first place, clearly he is not a football manager.

Why not just have a manager in charge who we think can get us promoted - last season for example after Kean won one match some think we had turned that infamous corner.

Our situation must be one of the most bizarre in football, don't think a poor manager has ever held on to their job for so long and even got an improved contract.

Strange but every decision made by the Rao family has been a bad one.

[Lhrover]

do you think they will sack kean if we are mid table of the championship by december?

[Stuart]

Our situation must be one of the most bizarre in football

Which is why no-one knows how to react or what to do for the best.

do you think they will sack kean if we are mid table of the championship by december?

Probably not, no. They will likely say we are still on course.

Another reason for us to give Shebby OUR deadline for the truce maybe. 9 points from the first five games or the gloves are off and stay off - if he doesn't act to remove Kean.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Keep plugging away Stuart.

So let me follow the logic of what's going on:

We're booing Kean and not Venky's because Venkys have the power to remove Kean and improve things whereas Kean can't improve anything

What we're booing about Kean is the fact he is a cheating, lying, drink-driving, fan-hating scumbag and NOT results, because we're not relegation cry babies.

Because it's about the type of man the manager is, we will boo him at any stage of the season (pre-season), at any stage of the match (4 mins in) and no matter where we are in the table (even top)

Therefore, should Venky's remove him and appoint someone who does not have Kean's appalling personal qualities, we will give Venky's a 2nd chance and we will support the new manager at every stage of the season, throughout the whole 94 mins of the game and no matter where we are in the table, because this is all about Kean the person.

Have I got that right?

[Waggy76]

Kean should never have been appointed. He should have been sacked at the end of the first season when he took us down to the last game. He should have been sacked on countless occasions during the following season. He should have been sacked when were relegated. He should have been sacked when he visited India to meet the owners. He probably should have been sacked when he embarrassed himself and the club with his videotaped diatribe about the ex-manager. There is no logical explanation as to why he has not been sacked. The owners have insulted the club and fans by not sacking him.

So all this talk of give him 5 games, 5 minutes, 2 games, 2 seasons, till further relegation ........ is pretty meaningless to me.

An excellent post !!!!

Kean as to go !

[rhodie]

Which is why no-one knows how to react or what to do for the best.

Probably not, no. They will likely say we are still on course.

Another reason for us to give Shebby OUR deadline for the truce maybe. 9 points from the first five games or the gloves are off and stay off - if he doesn't act to remove Kean.

That`s a good point Stuart ,the only problem is what happens if he does get the 9 points ,will that mean all is forgiven?

[Mattyblue]

For a lot of folk, yes that is exactly how it is EiT.

However, he is despised due to his personal qualities AND the relegation.

[Exiled in Toronto]

For a lot of folk, yes that is exactly how it is EiT.

However, he is despised due to his personal qualities AND the relegation.

So the only difference between us and Bolton fans is the personal qualities then, because Coyle's results over the last 18 months have been just as bad as Kean's and they aren't booing him 4 mins into a pre-season friendly.

Let's see if we support the next bloke when we're 15th then

[Mattyblue]

So the only difference between us and Bolton fans is the personal qualities then, because Coyle's results over the last 18 months have been just as bad as Kean's and they aren't booing him 4 mins into a pre-season friendly.

Let's see if we support the next bloke when we're 15th then

It's never JUST been about results with Kean, has it? You know that, so what point are you trying to make?

[Stuart]

Keep plugging away Stuart.

So let me follow the logic of what's going on:

We're booing Kean and not Venky's because Venkys have the power to remove Kean and improve things whereas Kean can't improve anything

What we're booing about Kean is the fact he is a cheating, lying, drink-driving, fan-hating scumbag and NOT results, because we're not relegation cry babies.

Because it's about the type of man the manager is, we will boo him at any stage of the season (pre-season), at any stage of the match (4 mins in) and no matter where we are in the table (even top)

Therefore, should Venky's remove him and appoint someone who does not have Kean's appalling personal qualities, we will give Venky's a 2nd chance and we will support the new manager at every stage of the season, throughout the whole 94 mins of the game and no matter where we are in the table, because this is all about Kean the person.

Have I got that right?

The problem is, there isn't one fan perspective.

There are - in my opinion - at least 5 bands:

1) Those who have had enough and are staunch anti-Venkys, anti-Kean and will not forgive - no matter what - many of whom have stopped attending

2) Those who really want to support the club and are looking for any possible concession from the club to persuade them to return

3) Those who will shamelessly swing either way depending upon results

4) Those who are ignorant to the whole undercurrent and just see it as a normal relegation

5) Those who "have supported the club since Adam were a lad and I ain't stoppin' now - I'll be here after them.

Interestingly I don't think ANY of the groups want Kean as manager.

That`s a good point Stuart ,the only problem is what happens if he does get the 9 points ,will that mean all is forgiven?

It means Rovers will likely be upper top-half of the league. It may also give Kean a platform to say look the fans got behind the team and we've started winning. Maybe a price worth paying. There is a reason the thread title is An Uneasy Truce. It will involve a lot of pride swallowing from Rovers fans and a lot of ignoring of the arrogance of the bald bloke on touchline licking his lips.

But the odds on us getting 9 points out of the first 15? We may be making theoretical arguments and falling out with each other for the sake of it.

[philip369]

Let's say he gets nearly enough points from his 5 games with no protests. . . fans are with me, judge me after the next 5......bla feckin bla

Then image him getting nearly enough.....but with constant protests.

I wish I got this in the million drop live!

[Doug]

The thing that keeps niggling me, and I know it will get folks back up, is that IF the protests are creating a negative atmosphere for the team, and they keep losing, and the protests increase and the defeats keep coming and so on, are the fans reaping what they sow? Are we indirectly shooting ourselves in the foot?

We seem to be in 'Catch 22' scenario.

As a Rovers fan, my biggest wish is a good season with a return to the premiership. My second, we do it without Kean,

[Salgado Is A Hero]

The thing is, the whole talk of whether protests are affecting the players or not is irrelevant in my eyes as we would be just as bad without them.

It took what, 25 league matches before the first protest of which we won 5, with 3 of them coming at the start of his reign when we were still quite defensively organised and 2 weeks after the third game both of those managers had been sacked..(Di Matteo's West Brom and Hodgson's Liverpool in case anyone had forgotten)...and the other 2 were against teams that have since been relegated.

We have protested and beaten Arsenal and Swansea, a third of our home wins last season.....we won 2 away matches, the least in the division and one was against Terry Connor's Wolves.

Swansea had the worst away record when we beat them at home and after 8 away matches had yet to score a goal.....we beat QPR who finished the season with the least points won on the road as we had drawn more......Fulham had won 4 of the last 40+ away matches when we beat them.......we fluked a win against Arsenal with the own goals, Yakubu's 2nd being offside, some terrible defending, wayward finishing, they should have had a penalty at the end and initially, after the first half an hour or so, I thought finally there is going to be a game when we get beat 6/7/8-0 so people can see how bad we really are.

The Old Trafford win was a one-off in which Ferguson clearly underestimated us like he had just done with Crystal Palace, beating Terry Connor's Wolves deserves no plaudits and Sunderland had that FA Cup replay earlier in the week.....obviously with any win you could find factors that could take something away from it but with our situation you can clearly see that we would be terrible with or without the protests.....the role Kean plays in how our team performs is 100 times greater than anything the fans could muster.

I couldn't be arsed to try and go to games with him in charge with Arsenal away (the 0-0 thankfully, not the 7-1) being the only one that I have but all shouts of "Kean Out" and "You don't know what you're doing" etc should be continued until he has gone for the benefit of anyone who is listening......although I will probably go to a few away games this season in Bristol and London and the home one against Burnley.

I don't think they will fire him this season, nor do I think Shebby Singh has the power to, but as long as there is a chance then fans should continue to show their dislike of our "manager" for as long as necessary, as long as the players are supported which I'm sure they will be.....I believe there is something dodgy happening but if not and the Indians, namely Desai, are really as gullible as they appear, then why risk letting up the pressure and having that slithering, slimy snake spin his web of lies and deceit of the fans being behind me etc etc....I know that snakes don't spin webs by the way I just felt like continuing with the alliteration.

The players will know the situation and will put it in the back of their minds....if not, then if playing in a "hostile" atmosphere affects them significantly, then I hope they never have to play in Turkey, Argentina, Eastern Europe etc.

[Miker]

Let it take it's natural course, if Kean is as ###### as all of us believe then he will lose games regardless. The criticism, booing and protesting can start when we are actually doing poorly and not be pre-meditated. Some think that's being fickle but to me that's quality control.

The team need to feel some hope and motivation when they go into games rather than having to constantly be wary that one mistake will start the Kean Out protests.

Constant protesting from the get go will simply give Kean more excuses.

Venky's have already thrown a lot of money away on the club, it's not in their best interests to lose games.

[gumboots]

Let it take it's natural course, if Kean is as ###### as all of us believe then he will lose games regardless. The criticism, booing and protesting can start when we are actually doing poorly and not be pre-meditated.

We are already doing poorly. It's only preseason I know but you can see poorly in lack of ideas and tactics, lack of formation, lack of shots against supposedly weaker opposition. Don't expect team to be up to match sharpness yet obviously but we have looked poor in the matches I've seen so far. It is, as said earlier, a continuation of the last 2 seasons and no amount of laying off Kean will make him any better and therein lies the problem. He has got worse, not better. If he could learn on the job and we could see even the slightest smidgeon of improvement in any aspect of his management we would by now have eased off. There is no improvement and the squad is significantly weaker. Nobody wants to ease up on Kean - why should they?