[Archived] So what is the situation now

[Earlydoors]

Much as I'd rather believe that underhand behaviour is the root cause of the problem at Rovers, rather than incompetence, I can't fathom why a Billion Dollar company would risk their reputation for the relative peanuts of about £50m

[braddock]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:28, DeadlyDirk said:

I won't forget, as long as by the same token you don't forget about the other teams playing us who may also be feeling the pressure of potentially losing to the laughing stock of the league if they do not perform, as well as those who may even have been overconfident and taken us too lightly.

If the fans are that important perhaps they should listen to us more, we did win a league title and a league cup as well as having numerous European runs in the modern era. Many of us fans who played a large part in getting those honours are still here.

I don't think that will have too much impact as we are underperforming already, so they would have to be p*ssing themselves so much (or fearfully sh*tting themselves as you suggested) so much they outcrap us. Unlikely, and very messy.

Well they didn't listen to the fans did they? And that's a problem. But that doesn't mean the way the fans reacted didn't have an effect and it doesn't excuse the pressure the fans generally placed on the younger lads. It wasn't what sent us down, there are other factors which weighed more, but it contributed and a few games the other way and we may well have survived. We'll never know now though. I can understand the reaction of the fans, but put down exactly what they did as ignorance and idiocy combined, but now, not to be able to look at things retrospectively and admit that they were a factor in the drop, that is the annoying thing. The fans are not high and mighty.

[Kelbo]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:32, Teacup said:

He would still be in a sort of untouchable position though? The other owners cannot really axe him as he can bring down the stack of cards around them all? If he only has a minimal stake, it will cost the other owners a lot more than him if for whatever reason they got shut down?

In this untouchable position he can make serious money, possibly far more than his initial stake?

Or, with a non declaration, he could be fined substantially and removed from his position without compensation!

[rhodie]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:36, Earlydoors said:

Much as I'd rather believe that underhand behaviour is the root cause of the problem at Rovers, rather than incompetence, I can't fathom why a Billion Dollar company would risk their reputation for the relative peanuts of about £50m

Exactly Earlydoors .IMO the owners are gullible idiots that have been led a merry dance by agents etc. and the manager has somehow blagged a last chance for his gross incompetence .

[Teacup]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:40, Kelbo said:

Or, with a non declaration, he could be fined substantially and removed from his position without compensation!

And what would happen to Venky's?

[Mattyblue]

We lost 8 out of the last nine games braddock, for most of those games the atmosphere was 'better' than it was around late 2011, early 2012.

We were a couple of wins away from safety after beating Sunderland in late March, there was a very supportive atmosphere that night that carried on for most of the run in..

The fans did not cause that late season collapse in form.

[bannedwidth]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:40, braddock said:

I don't think that will have too much impact as we are underperforming already, so they would have to be p*ssing themselves so much (or fearfully sh*tting themselves as you suggested) so much they outcrap us. Unlikely, and very messy.

Well they didn't listen to the fans did they? And that's a problem. But that doesn't mean the way the fans reacted didn't have an effect and it doesn't excuse the pressure the fans generally placed on the younger lads. It wasn't what sent us down, there are other factors which weighed more, but it contributed and a few games the other way and we may well have survived. We'll never know now though. I can understand the reaction of the fans, but put down exactly what they did as ignorance and idiocy combined, but now, not to be able to look at things retrospectively and admit that they were a factor in the drop, that is the annoying thing. The fans are not high and mighty.

You are calling the fans ignorant and idiotic, stating flatly that the fans are partly responsible for the ###### poor performance since Kean took over. Its utter crap braddock.

[Kelbo]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:43, Teacup said:

And what would happen to Venky's?

As I understand it, in sch a situation, would be found unfit owners and unable to own the club, now I dont know how the financial situation would be but they would have broken the law and rules of the Football League/Premier League!!

[braddock]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:43, Mattyblue said:

We lost 8 out of the last nine games braddock, for most of those games the atmosphere was 'better' than it was around late 2011, early 2012.

We were a couple of wins away from safety after beating Sunderland in late March, there was a very supportive atmosphere that night that carried on for most of the run in..

The fans did not cause that late season collapse in form.

I don't totally agree with you. There was certainly no real 'support'. It was still a very poor showing with plenty of abuse as soon as another team scored, etc. The fans contributed. They weren't the overriding factor but they played their part.

[rhodie]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:32, Teacup said:

He would still be in a sort of untouchable position though? The other owners cannot really axe him as he can bring down the stack of cards around them all? If he only has a minimal stake, it will cost the other owners a lot more than him if for whatever reason they got shut down?

In this untouchable position he can make serious money, possibly far more than his initial stake?

Thats the thing Teacup ,if he isn`t a proper director of Rovers he can`t lay any claims to any Rovers holdings and if he tried to say he owned shares he would have to prove it. It would legally be the same as you or I suddenly saying we own x amount of Rovers, the first thing any legal system would ask is for us to prove it.

[Teacup]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:47, Kelbo said:

As I understand it, in sch a situation, would be found unfit owners and unable to own the club, now I dont know how the financial situation would be but they would have broken the law and rules of the Football League/Premier League!!

And what if this situation they got involved in they did so without fully understanding?

As far as I am aware a lot of the early talks/deals were done with the brothers and Mrs. Desai only got wind of it upon completion?

Also the Trust must of got duped if we are to believe this really happened, would it be that hard to dupe the brothers if they already duped the Trust?

[braddock]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:46, bannedwidth said:

You are calling the fans ignorant and idiotic, stating flatly that the fans are partly responsible for the ###### poor performance since Kean took over.

Indeed. Do tell me, in retrospect, if there is any other way in which the fans could have responded which could have improved matters? If you don't believe there was anything else then you don't think very highly of fans impact. They'd have been far more likely to carry the lads over the line by supporting the team then slating the owners/manager outside of the 90 minutes than they would have been by undermining things to get Kean sacked.

[Kelbo]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:44, meadows said:

My Mrs once had the dubious pleasure of coming home from West Ham on Rovers team coach

Our fans' boneshaker had broken down & the police forced Howard Kendall to take the women & kids while the rest of us fended for ourselves

She, and I, have never forgotten what she remembers most starkly from that journey

Although Rovers were doing well up to that game, she was struck by the fact that no-one on the coach, Kendall apart, seemed the least bit disturbed or disappointed that they had lost the game an hour earlier

While the mood on the supporters coach was always fully dictated by the result, she recalls to this day how blasé and matter-of-fact the players were

And I suspect, whoever says what or did what, that attitude pervades even to this day

The average professional footballer could not give a flying one who he plays for, who the manager is, what the fans think of any one, as long as their grossly-unmerited fat cheque is paid in every Thursday

The same players who would defend Kean to the hilt now will have forgotten any allegiance to him the instant he's (please, Lord) gone and will hail his successor as the greatest thing since sliced bread so long as he picks them in the XI, or better still, the bench, whence they can put an odd ten minutes in for their full appearance fee

The majority of footballers hate losing, sit in a dressing room after a defeat, its like a morgue, I dont care who the players are, most would react that way, of course Rovers at the moment are a different proposition, one or two players apart, there is something wrong. In my opinion, there was something not quite right with the defeats and the regularity of shipping 2 goals or plus per game for me to accept this was a normal performance, quite remarkable for such a run and I would expect any coach with a UEFA A license, to be able to stop the goals against situation, we may not win, but we shouldnt concede!!

[bannedwidth]

This is a straight yes or no question just for braddock. Do you think Rovers would still be a premiership team this season if "kean out" chants werent there?

[Teacup]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:50, rhodie said:

Thats the thing Teacup ,if he isn`t a proper director of Rovers he can`t lay any claims to any Rovers holdings and if he tried to say he owned shares he would have to prove it. It would legally be the same as you or I suddenly saying we own x amount of Rovers, the first thing any legal system would ask is for us to prove it.

If a person was to put himself in this position surely he would have no intention to lay any claims on the holdings?

[braddock]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:56, bannedwidth said:

This is a straight yes or no question just for braddock. Do you think Rovers would still be a premiership team this season if "kean out" chants werent there?

There is no straight yes or no answer to that question for me I'm afraid. We'll never know.

If the fans had not protested at all and backed the team fully and didn't abuse the manager then I reckon we would have survived, but I don't expect that to have happened and I understand why the protests did happen, so it's not worth considering.

[philipl]

I appreciate that the rumours would appear far fetched to some.

But the situation at Rovers has gone beyond utterly bizarre.

The only rational explanations for what we are seeing now are conspiracy theories and would be even if there were nothing leaking out around all the edges.

It is not in the gift of fans to be sceptical now. The dossier has been compiled, the authorities and politicians have copies and the investigations are under way.

For me and many others there is a simple three way split of outcomes between now and the second weekend of the new season:

Rovers get off to a great start to the new season, the hullabaloo will subside but for many of us the stench at Rovers will remain.

Rovers get off to an indifferent start and Kean is sacked. The first sane football decision since October 2010 will be greeted with relief and a willingness to grant a honeymoon period and a lot of the conspiracy theories lose their svengali.

Rovers get off to an indifferent start and Kean not only remains but effectively eclipses Shebby. Irregular ownership, illegal betting, match fixing, foreign bank accounts etc etc etc become enormously more credible.

[bradeagle]

  On 13/08/2012 at 14:49, braddock said:

I don't totally agree with you. There was certainly no real 'support'. It was still a very poor showing with plenty of abuse as soon as another team scored, etc. The fans contributed. They weren't the overriding factor but they played their part.

Put your comment into perspective.

When Kean first took over the fans were fully behind the team and kean as they were told it was tempory solution until a big name managers is appointed.

Then the bs started.

This guy should have been ousted over a year ago so apologies if less level headed individuals than yourself are getting frustrated.

I bow to your superior temperment.

[bannedwidth]

So thats a YES then. You have no idea what you are talking about.

[braddock]

  On 13/08/2012 at 15:02, bradeagle said:

Put your comment into perspective.

When Kean first took over the fans were fully behind the team and kean as they were told it was tempory solution until a big name managers is appointed.

Then the bs started.

This guy should have been ousted over a year ago so apologies if less level headed individuals than yourself are getting frustrated.

I bow to your superior temperment.

None of that means that we would definitely have gone down even had the protests during the 90 minutes taken place.

  On 13/08/2012 at 15:03, bannedwidth said:

So thats a YES then. You have no idea what you are talking about.

No it's not. Please reread what I type before attempting to reply.

[Mattyblue]

It is a personal opinion braddock.

In my opinion if we'd have sang 'Super Steve's Blue n White Army' till we were hoarse, we would still have gone down. He was an incompetent manager doing the bidding of nefarious owners.

The fact he almost relegated the team the year before with a much better set of players and a decent amount of points on the board in a much 'friendlier' ground tells you that.

But yes, we'll never know for sure.

[Kelbo]

  On 13/08/2012 at 15:02, bradeagle said:

Put your comment into perspective.

When Kean first took over the fans were fully behind the team and kean as they were told it was tempory solution until a big name managers is appointed.

Then the bs started.

This guy should have been ousted over a year ago so apologies if less level headed individuals than yourself are getting frustrated.

I bow to your superior temperment.

+ 1,000,000

[bannedwidth]

  On 13/08/2012 at 15:01, philipl said:

I appreciate that the rumours would appear far fetched to some.

But the situation at Rovers has gone beyond utterly bizarre.

The only rational explanations for what we are seeing now are conspiracy theories and would be even if there were nothing leaking out around all the edges.

It is not in the gift of fans to be sceptical now. The dossier has been compiled, the authorities and politicians have copies and the investigations are under way.

For me and many others there is a simple three way split of outcomes between now and the second weekend of the new season:

Rovers get off to a great start to the new season, the hullabaloo will subside but for many of us the stench at Rovers will remain.

Rovers get off to an indifferent start and Kean is sacked. The first sane football decision since October 2010 will be greeted with relief and a willingness to grant a honeymoon period and a lot of the conspiracy theories lose their svengali.

Rovers get off to an indifferent start and Kean not only remains but effectively eclipses Shebby. Irregular ownership, illegal betting, match fixing, foreign bank accounts etc etc etc become enormously more credible.

Not doubting your post but it does suggest you dont really know whats going on yourself philip? Only asking because it seems like you know more about it than most.

[braddock]

  On 13/08/2012 at 15:06, Mattyblue said:

It is a personal opinion braddock.

In my opinion if we'd have sang 'Super Steve's Blue n White Army' till we were hoarse, we would still have gone down. He was an incompetent manager doing the bidding of nefarious owners.

The fact he almost relegated the team the year before with a much better set of players and a decent amount of points on the board in a much 'friendlier' ground tells you that.

But yes, we'll never know for sure.

Fair enough. We have different opinions but can both admit that we'll never know. Certainly nothing the fans should feel so high and mighty about then. Frustration and hatred they are welcome too if they wish to have it (I indeed have the former of those two) but any form of superiority should be discarded by the boo boys.

[Teacup]

  On 13/08/2012 at 15:01, philipl said:

Rovers get off to an indifferent start and Kean not only remains but effectively eclipses Shebby. Irregular ownership, illegal betting, match fixing, foreign bank accounts etc etc etc become enormously more credible.

So, has something like this happened before?

Or is this speculation that we are the first real club for this to happen with in such a successful manner?

I mean, it makes complete sense to me. You always get the best scammers where the most money is and football is a serious money making machine. The problem I have is, I see no mastermind. Whoever thought up a plan like this is no ordinary bloke, it spans so many different areas and layers of the football and financial worlds.. You cannot just wing your way into such an amazing scam.