[Archived] So what is the situation now

[bannedwidth]

None of that means that we would definitely have gone down even had the protests during the 90 minutes taken place.

No it's not. Please reread what I type before attempting to reply.

It really is actually braddock. Go back and read what I asked you and read your answer.

[braddock]

+ 1,000,000

I don't think you're aware of how that works. Each person is entitled to a + 1 or a - 1, otherwise the all important poll results will be skewed. I personally am going to -2,000,000 him in this fictitious poll you've generated inside your noggin, so at the moment he's not doing very well I'm afraid.

It really is actually braddock. Go back and read what I asked you and read your answer.

OK, you try:

Yes or no answer only.

Do you think 'insert anything we have no definitive proof for one way or the other'?

[DeadlyDirk]

Indeed. Do tell me, in retrospect, if there is any other way in which the fans could have responded which could have improved matters? If you don't believe there was anything else then you don't think very highly of fans impact. They'd have been far more likely to carry the lads over the line by supporting the team then slating the owners/manager outside of the 90 minutes than they would have been by undermining things to get Kean sacked.

Looking back yes we could have done things differently but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Looking at the results it appears many of us decided to bet on the wrong lottery numbers. What we should have done is have several supporters, with the clubs long term success at heart, pick the winning lottery numbers for several weeks until they had a large amount of money available to them.

Given what we now know that money could have been used to place bets on several different events leading to a guaranteed win. We could then have repeated this process until a group of Rovers fans are now the richest people in the world who could then have made Venky's an offer they couldn't refuse leading to a fan takeover and ultimately the removal of Steve Kean.

As I said, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[braddock]

Looking back yes we could have done things differently but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Looking at the results it appears many of us decided to bet on the wrong lottery numbers. What we should have done is have several supporters, with the clubs long term success at heart, pick the winning lottery numbers for several weeks until they had a large amount of money available to them.

Given what we now know that money could have been used to place bets on several different events leading to a guaranteed win. We could then have repeated this process until a group of Rovers fans are now the richest people in the world who could then have made Venky's an offer they couldn't refuse leading to a fan takeover and ultimately the removal of Steve Kean.

As I said, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but as I constantly stated, it was bloody obvious that it wasn't going to help. Hindsight wasn't required, after all, I'm sure you're of the opinion that I'm no clever cloggs but had a point right from the start. What was needed was common sense.

[Kelbo]

I don't think you're aware of how that works. Each person is entitled to a + 1 or a - 1, otherwise the all important poll results will be skewed. I personally am going to -2,000,000 him in this fictitious poll you've generated inside your noggin, so at the moment he's not doing very well I'm afraid.

OK, you try:

Yes or no answer only.

Do you think 'insert anything we have no definitive proof for one way or the other'?

I am quite aware of how things work, I am also aware that I have not created a ficticious poll, to conclude, judging by your posts to date, I give no credulance to your postings, of course you can say you do the same to mine, but I know better!!

[bannedwidth]

I don't think you're aware of how that works. Each person is entitled to a + 1 or a - 1, otherwise the all important poll results will be skewed. I personally am going to -2,000,000 him in this fictitious poll you've generated inside your noggin, so at the moment he's not doing very well I'm afraid.

OK, you try:

Yes or no answer only.

Do you think 'insert anything we have no definitive proof for one way or the other'?

I asked if you think the kean out chants cost us relegation did I not? Key word being 'think' and you confirmed thats what you 'think'. Its not rocket science.

[braddock]

Explain the away performances then, with travelling fans invariably more kindly disposed towards the team having made geographical and financial efforts to support them

Explain the supine surrenders at Swansea and West Brom, the horrible collapse to Bolton with a large noisy backing, and most hideous of all, the utterly abject non-performance at Spurs when any reasonably fit bunch of under-25s pulled out of the away end and given a 5-minute pep talk by The Lady Mayoress of Blackburn would surely have put in a more energetic, aggressive, forward-moving display

Yes, away from home the fans were glorious and full of love and not at all filled with the many millions who had stopped going to the home games out of protest from this board alone. Added to which, away games are easy, especially against top 6 teams. After all, over the last half a decade we've excelled away from home.

[Mattyblue]

Explain the late season collapse, until the Wigan game the atmosphere in those final 9 games was not 'hostile' in the slightest.

[braddock]

I asked if you think the kean out chants cost us relegation did I not? Key word being 'think' and you confirmed thats what you 'think'. Its not rocket science.

It's not possible to answer one way or the other as I do not know. I do know that we could have done had the chanting not been there during the game and it had instead been used to encourage the lads and get behind them.

What do you not understand about that? Not everything is a yes or no answer. There are specific hypothesis that you can not have a definitive opinion on. It's a far more reasoned stance to take than simply going all in pretending you know for definite when there isn't enough evidence to suggest you do.

Explain the late season collapse, until the Wigan game the atmosphere in those final 9 games was not 'hostile' in the slightest.

Really? There was zero negativity or hostility during all those games?

[mjs]

I am in no doubt that it is all a charade.

The strength of feeling at the Wigan game clearly really rocked them and action had to be taken, although not the same action that the majority of fans know was needed and wanted. This to me suggests that the Kean unsackable theories are not far from the truth.

Instead they appoint Shebby to be a buffer between fans and Kean to try and take the heat off, in the hope that things improve on the pitch and therefore hope we all bow down and be quiet.

Then we get the change of security and the increased zero tolerance towards supporters chanting 'Kean Out'. It all points to doing anything possible to keep fans quiet and reducing their voice (the fans) and increasing the chances of guarding whatever is going on.

I have heard people say on here that 'giving them hell' doesn't work. To me it is quite the opposite and the volume and pressure has to be maintained. The stay aways are playing right into their hands as it minimises that volume. I am sorry but reduced crowd figures won't shout loud enough.

And as for the players and what others think of us, personally I couldn't give a damn. They won't be here for the long term but we will. If it has a negative affect on results then so be it. Personally I would suffer another relegation if it meant our club getting rid of the vermin that inhabit it.

[Hasta]

Braddock - You are right. Had we had cheerleaders in blue and white at the front of the away end at White Hart Lane shouting Rovers, Rovers Ra Ra Ra we would have improved. Maybe if we had all gone and sung rhyming dittys for all the players on show we may, and I stress may because we don't know for sure, but we may have managed to actually have a shot on goal. That would have made all the difference to the season of hell.

[braddock]

Braddock - You are right. Had we had cheerleaders in blue and white at the front of the away end at White Hart Lane shouting Rovers, Rovers Ra Ra Ra we would have improved. Maybe if we had all gone and sung rhyming dittys for all the players on show we may, and I stress may because we don't know for sure, but we may have managed to actually have a shot on goal. That would have made all the difference to the season of hell.

Hallelujah, praise the lord. We'd have won at least 8-0.

[bannedwidth]

It's not possible to answer one way or the other as I do not know. I do know that we could have done had the chanting not been there during the game and it had instead been used to encourage the lads and get behind them.

What do you not understand about that? Not everything is a yes or no answer. There are specific hypothesis that you can not have a definitive opinion on. It's a far more reasoned stance to take than simply going all in pretending you know for definite when there isn't enough evidence to suggest you do.

Really? There was zero negativity or hostility during all those games?

Dont come on here having a go at the fans for protesting then if 'you dont know one way or the other' okay mate? We know what youre saying but you are back tracking. You think the fans played a part in the relegation, just admit it.

[philipl]

Not doubting your post but it does suggest you dont really know whats going on yourself philip? Only asking because it seems like you know more about it than most.

I go back to my first post. I have information from three sources I consider to be extremely reliable which point to extreme wrong doing. Each piece of information concerns a different aspect and each was unaware of the other two as far as I am aware until the BRFC Action Group was made privy although they don't know the identity of the sources.

Putting the three together with other pieces of information including confirmations of seemingly unrelated facts given by Richard Scudamore is hair raising.

Again I go back to my first post, if Kean gets sacked now, a key element pinning the conspiracy together disappears.

If against all rational footballing logic, Kean remains in post then I'd have to say the implications are horrific.

[Pedro]

Straight yes or no question to Philipl and Glen. Have you been or are you currently subject to any legal threats from Kean, Venkys or Anderson?

[philipl]

Personally no.

I have seen at least one letter sent to Glen which the Minister made an audible gasp when he read it.

[foreverrovers]

I go back to my first post. I have information from three sources I consider to be extremely reliable which point to extreme wrong doing. Each piece of information concerns a different aspect and each was unaware of the other two as far as I am aware until the BRFC Action Group was made privy although they don't know the identity of the sources.

Putting the three together with other pieces of information including confirmations of seemingly unrelated facts given by Richard Scudamore is hair raising.

Again I go back to my first post, if Kean gets sacked now, a key element pinning the conspiracy together disappears.

If against all rational footballing logic, Kean remains in post then I'd have to say the implications are horrific.

If its so 'hair raising' do you know where the authorities are up to with investigating the information and acting on it

[HemelRover]

Hi all. If you want to discuss, again, whether or not the protests affected the players, please open a new thread for it. Try and keep this on topic please.

[philipl]

If its so 'hair raising' do you know where the authorities are up to with investigating the information and acting on it

Glen and the BRFC Action Group are liaising directly with the people concerned. Please read Glen's posts on this thread.

[Pedro]

Personally no.

I have seen at least one letter sent to Glen which the Minister made an audible gasp when he read it.

If they haven't, for me that would be quite telling because there have been plenty of not so subtle accusations sent their way. It is hard to filter through opinions, facts and anger to discover what the actual truth is.

[philipl]

If they haven't, for me that would be quite telling because there have been plenty of not so subtle accusations sent their way. It is hard to filter through opinions, facts and anger to discover what the actual truth is.

If we knew the truth, there would either be criminal trials or we would all be shutting up.

Over to Glen to comment on his correspondence.

[bannedwidth]

Hi all. If you want to discuss, again, whether or not the protests affected the players, please open a new thread for it. Try and keep this on topic please.

I didnt start it!! I will finish it though....anyway carry on.

[Fife Rover]

It is quite feasible that someone can own a % of a company without being a director or being named as a shareholder. Even if Kean (or his associates if there are any) didn't own any of Venky's London directly there are many underhand, and sadly legal, financial methods of ensuring beneficial ownership that could go undetected without some serious digging. I'm not ITK or insinuating anything, just stating it is possible for someone to own part of a business undetected.

Having worked in the financial industry I can assure you that people will go to inordinate lengths to maintain anonymity with regards to their holdings.

Precisely......and because of them people like me and millions of others finish up paying more taxes than we should have to.

[Paul]

It is all known to BFRC Action Group. the MPs, the Premier League and the FA.

Please go to the LT website: http://www.lancashir...s_for_comments/

Scroll down to the contribution of JC-Rishton which is the 14th who makes some very specific statements.

What is stated in that post is NOT what I am aware of but let's say it is in the same ballpark as one of the pieces of circumstantial that have been shared with the powers that be.

Congratulations Al and 1874, you are now both ITKs.

I'm not in a position to confirm or deny what JC Rishton has stated regarding Steve Kean owning 5% of Rovers however it's possible he attended the same meeting as I did and therefore his source will be the same. If it is I think it's a very good one. I've been aware of this theory for some weeks.

I'm not sure though that it is illegal for an employee to own shares in the company he /she works for. In the case of a football manager it would seem wise to make this public but I don't think it is a legal requirement. It doesn't make him unsackable either.

On the Anderson. Front I spoke with him for over an hour on the phone last week , and due to the on-going investigation I have agreed to keep that conversation silent , what I will say though is that investigation has been accelerated and the FA are holding talks with rovers as I type

Glen you will have heard me specifically ask Singh on Saturday if the PL or FA had contacted the club as a result of the BRAG dossier. He answered there had been no contact from the PL or FA. If the FA are holding talks with Rovers today either things have accelerated at an enormous pace in 48 hours (a weekend at that) or Singh did not answer truthfully.

Can you say which it is?

[glen9mullan]

As Philip states I recieved a letter from Jerome Andersons solicitor the day before we travelled to the Premier league it stated, That we had not to discuss their client in any of the upcoming meetings as it was dmaaging his business.

We have had no libel letters, no court cases, no threats of being sued, and as I said earlier a very anxious Anderson phoned me last week, although that conversation was private and I will not elaborate on it