[Archived] So what is the situation now

[glen9mullan]

I'm not in a position to confirm or deny what JC Rishton has stated regarding Steve Kean owning 5% of Rovers however it's possible he attended the same meeting as I did and therefore his source will be the same. If it is I think it's a very good one. I've been aware of this theory for some weeks.

I'm not sure though that it is illegal for an employee to own shares in the company he /she works for. In the case of a football manager it would seem wise to make this public but I don't think it is a legal requirement. It doesn't make him unsackable either.

Glen you will have heard me specifically ask Singh on Saturday if the PL or FA had contacted the club as a result of the BRAG dossier. He answered there had been no contact from the PL or FA. If the FA are holding talks with Rovers today either things have accelerated at an enormous pace in 48 hours (a weekend at that) or Singh did not answer truthfully.

Can you say which it is?

I know Karen Silk went to both the FA and Premier league and had to not only answer questions but provide certain evidence, I know this because we went the day after to the FA and they told us.

I heard Shebby's comment on Saturday, but treading carefully, I dunno how he could deny contact had been made. Rovers will be at the FA for the next 2 days, so that answer puzzled me Paul

[PAFELL]

As I understand it, in sch a situation, would be found unfit owners and unable to own the club, now I dont know how the financial situation would be but they would have broken the law and rules of the Football League/Premier League!!

Then the league tell them they must sell. The problem is what happens if there is no credible buyer.

And what if this situation they got involved in they did so without fully understanding? IGNORANCE IS NOT A DEFENCE IN ANY LEGAL DEALINGS - MAYBE A MITIGATING FACTOR, BUT NOT A DEFENCE.

As far as I am aware a lot of the early talks/deals were done with the brothers and Mrs. Desai only got wind of it upon completion?

Also the Trust must of got duped if we are to believe this really happened, would it be that hard to dupe the brothers if they already duped the Trust?

[BPF]

I know Karen Silk went to both the FA and Premier league and had to not only answer questions but provide certain evidence, I know this because we went the day after to the FA and they told us.

I heard Shebby's comment on Saturday, but treading carefully, I dunno how he could deny contact had been made. Rovers will be at the FA for the next 2 days, so that answer puzzled me Paul

So Shebby is another lying employee of the club then....wonderful.

[PAFELL]

So Shebby is another lying employee of the club then....wonderful.

Even in his appology he basically said he is trying to appease suporters.

As Philip states I recieved a letter from Jerome Andersons solicitor the day before we travelled to the Premier league it stated, That we had not to discuss their client in any of the upcoming meetings as it was dmaaging his business.

We have had no libel letters, no court cases, no threats of being sued, and as I said earlier a very anxious Anderson phoned me last week, although that conversation was private and I will not elaborate on it

Are you able to put up a copy of that letter from Anderson on here. I do not know what the legal position is on that. But would presume a letter being sent to somebody is the property of the one it was sent too. I ask as it would be interesting to see what we are dealing with with regards to this agent.

[Paul]

I know Karen Silk went to both the FA and Premier league and had to not only answer questions but provide certain evidence, I know this because we went the day after to the FA and they told us.

I heard Shebby's comment on Saturday, but treading carefully, I dunno how he could deny contact had been made. Rovers will be at the FA for the next 2 days, so that answer puzzled me Paul

In light of Glen's comment above I post the Q&A I put to Singh on Saturday:

Paul: " It's been reported widely that a group of fans, BRFC Action Group, presented a large document to the PL and FA. I'd like to know what the club's response is to that and has the club been contacted by the PL and the FA as a result of it?"

Shebby: "I am sitting here with Glen, with Mark and BRFC Action Group committee. I know there was a document because I read about it. I have not seen the document and the Premier League and the Football League have not written to us or said anything about it. But for the simple fact I'm sitting with these gentlemen who care so much about the club I think just more or less answers your question but I have not heard from the Football League or the Premier League."

I'd like to add I asked this on Saturday because I felt much of the discussion would focus on football and this aspect of our situation is every bit as important. I'm very interested to read Glen's remarks in the light of my question and Shebby's response.

[philipl]

Then the league tell them they must sell. The problem is what happens if there is no credible buyer.

There is at least one credible British buyer- the consortium lead by Ilias Khan.

BRSIT might be getting into the realms of credibility by now as well judging by the gentleman I met who is working with them behind the scenes.

[Doug]

Just seen the appology/retraction by Charlie Cairoli. Wow, Sky love our club, it allows them to show the more nutty side of sport. Palin must be thinking of re-writing the Barnstoneworth Utd sketch in Ripping Yarns.

[broadsword]

As Philip states I recieved a letter from Jerome Andersons solicitor the day before we travelled to the Premier league it stated, That we had not to discuss their client in any of the upcoming meetings as it was dmaaging his business.

We have had no libel letters, no court cases, no threats of being sued, and as I said earlier a very anxious Anderson phoned me last week, although that conversation was private and I will not elaborate on it

One thing that did rankle was Jerome's SSN interview.

If someone were to be extremely uncharitable they might suggest that Mr Anderson was insinuating that Rovers' fans were goose-stepping National Front storm troopers who wanted to cut the Rovers nose off to spite the Venky's face.

Who did Kean like Myles Anderson to? Chris Smalling? Bet Smalling never got loaned to Aldershot. That one reeks of nepotism, even Alan Nixon distanced himself from it.

What is clear is that the management and admin at Rovers might be in the same boat, but they're not rowing in the same direction. A football can't be successful unless the people with their hands on the controls can present a united front.

As I've stated before, the fact that the club now banks outside of the EU worries me. The decision-making at the club is a black box. Who knows what's really going on in there? If there's a conspiracy to ruin the club and pocket the parachute payments, why have the invested so much time with misguided academy crap in India, tournaments etc? Is that all a smokescreen as well?

I have no plausible explanation for any of this, other than there's no coherent strategy because they don't know what they're doing. But sheer incompetence can't explain all of it.

Perhaps we'll be thankful for Shebby if he continues to prove a thorn in Kean's side, because it might just crack the whole rotten craphouse wide open. You can't have the de facto chief exec (presumably that is what Singh is) publically criticising the manager like that, and slating the players he selects, without things coming to a head. Seems like civil war to me, and even if Singh goes, we might have been better off for him coming on the scene.

17 points from 7 games is a tough requirement and I have no doubt we won't get it, but equally I doubt Kean will go afterwards. He really is fire-proof. And if he's still manager when we're in League 1, I'm afraid everyone is going to think it's corrupt.

Or maybe Stephen bangs Mrs Desai's bhatti? Who knows? Actually I'll call him MacBeth from now on, feels better.

[lraC]

There is at least one credible British buyer- the consortium lead by Ilias Khan.

BRSIT might be getting into the realms of credibility by now as well judging by the gentleman I met who is working with them behind the scenes.

Was this guy called Ian B ?

[PAFELL]

There is at least one credible British buyer- the consortium lead by Ilias Khan.

BRSIT might be getting into the realms of credibility by now as well judging by the gentleman I met who is working with them behind the scenes.

I wasn't sure if IIyas Kahn was still interested. Then there is the two Ian's as well, I suppose.

[Ewoodbhappy]

I presume the 'Shebby camp' is him and Balaji (and the fans?).

My guess is Venkys are majority shareholders. They gave carte blanche to minority shareholders after being lied to about a certain Mr Keans management skills and potential money to be made, from a European football qualified team.

This from a very interested 3rd party investor who has many fingers in many pies. With a footballer(hmmmmm?) in the family.

Venkys have seen their arse, as they know they've been mugged. Enter Shebby to try & regain some control.

Unfortunately Keans power base has grown in the meantime. His gang in one corner, shebby in the other.

I've posted before, this is our "Pelican Brief"

If someone has any evidence of wrong doing even if it circumstantial. Get it out now.

If the mud sticks - that may be the only way to get ALL THE CLOWNS out.

[bypass06]

I wasn't sure if IIyas Kahn was still interested. Then there is the two Ian's as well, I suppose.

Aren't they one and the same?

[PAFELL]

Aren't they one and the same?

Yeah, I forgot that. Been a long day.

[philipl]

Clarifications:

Ilyas Khan is working with Ian Battersby and Ian Currie whom together are partners in Seneca.

The gentleman advising BRSIT is not associated with any of the three named above.

Blackburn Rovers is 99.9999% owned by Venky's London Limited (the minority are pre-Walker shareholders who never sold)

Venky's London Limited is personally owned 25% each by Mr D, Mrs D, Venkatesh and Balaji.

The Annual Report filings have been made and are up to date.

It would be a criminal offence for anybody to have any ultimate ownership in shares in either Blackburn Rovers or Venky's London Limited which is not in accordance with these details. Furthermore, these details have been confirmed as being the ownership reported to the Premier League and is the ownership upon which the Directors and Owners Tests (Fit and Proper) were carried out. Venky's and Rovers would be in breach of PL, FL and FA regulations were there any ultimate beneficial ownership which is not in accordance with their filings.

[Exiled in Toronto]

My guess is Venkys are majority shareholders. They gave carte blanche to minority shareholders after being lied to about a certain Mr Keans management skills and potential money to be made, from a European football qualified team.

This from a very interested 3rd party investor who has many fingers in many pies. With a footballer(hmmmmm?) in the family.

Venkys have seen their arse, as they know they've been mugged. Enter Shebby to try & regain some control.

Unfortunately Keans power base has grown in the meantime. His gang in one corner, shebby in the other.

I've posted before, this is our "Pelican Brief"

If someone has any evidence of wrong doing even if it circumstantial. Get it out now.

If the mud sticks - that may be the only way to get ALL THE CLOWNS out.

This scenario makes sense.

The whole is it a power struggle or a sham can be answered with one key fact: did Kean phone Pune and get Mrs Desai to tell Shebby to apologise/retract or did Shebby do so himself as he realised he went too far in an open forum. Glen M tells us the latter, does anyone know for A FACT it was the former??

If it was the latter, the power struggle is over; if Kean has no recourse over Shebby talking like that then he is well out of the inner Pune circle.

As to why Shebby didn't fire him immediately, I feel the answer is very simple and lies in Indian business culture. We know Kean went over in summer and grovelled for his job, probably blamed everyone but him and made extravegant claims about his ability to get us back up at first attempt. I suspect he will have arrogantly given her the sacking target, "If I don't get 17 points from first 7 games then by all means sack me; you'll still have time to get another manager in and have a run at promotion, Roy Keane/Ipswich etc. Anyway, however it happened she gave him a stay of exectuion into the new season.

That being the case, it would be unthinkable in India for an underling, Shebby, to countermand the boss's decision and sack him immediately, he most likely wouldn't even think to ask. It's just not the done thing there. You live with the boss's decision period.

[HemelRover]

Blackburn Rovers is 99.9999% owned by Venky's London Limited (the minority are pre-Walker shareholders who never sold)

Venky's London Limited is personally owned 25% each by Mr D, Mrs D, Venkatesh and Balaji.

Can you help me out here?

You say that "Venky's London Limited is personally owned 25% each by Mr D, Mrs D, Venkatesh and Balaji."

but you linked to the LET and suggested we read the comments of J.C Rishton who states that re Kean he "is one of the owners !! (he is one of the directors, 5% stake, of the shell company that owns Venkys London Ltd and Venkys London Ltd, in turn, owns BRFC"

How can Venkys London Ltd be owned solely by the Mr D, Mrs D, Venkatesh and Balaji AND at the same time be owned by a shell company of which Steve Kean is supposed to own 5% of?

[philipl]

Can you help me out here?

You say that "Venky's London Limited is personally owned 25% each by Mr D, Mrs D, Venkatesh and Balaji."

but you linked to the LET and suggested we read the comments of J.C Rishton who states that re Kean he "is one of the owners !! (he is one of the directors, 5% stake, of the shell company that owns Venkys London Ltd and Venkys London Ltd, in turn, owns BRFC"

How can Venkys London Ltd be owned solely by the Mr D, Mrs D, Venkatesh and Balaji AND at the same time be owned by a shell company of which Steve Kean is supposed to own 5% of?

That my friend is the $64 million question.

Both cannot be true.

If JC-rishton is correct, there has been a criminal offence and there is a contravention of PL, FL and FA rules.

[Guest]

I heard Shebby's comment on Saturday, but treading carefully, I dunno how he could deny contact had been made. Rovers will be at the FA for the next 2 days, so that answer puzzled me Paul

Shebby's visit to the FA today is for an unrelated matter.

[philipl]

Shebby's visit to the FA today is for an unrelated matter.

Unrelated to what?

[Blueboy Downunder]

i wonder if venkys london ltd do their banking through india's national bank?

[T.J.Newton]

This is all to much for my mental disposition, it just needs to come to some kind of conclusion one way or another for everybody's sake.

If their is any truth in Kean's 5% Ownership of venkys London, then all legalities aside couldn't the Venky family as the majority share holders in theory just force Kean to sell them his 5% or at least remove him from any decision making. Also have Venkys ever been asked why Venkys London even exists considering they have no businesses in this country I'm aware of other than BRFC(and a long rumored future venkys chicken outlet!).

[T.J.Newton]

This is a tweet from robbie savage earlier-

"Robbie Savage‏@RobbieSavage8

Balckburn are my tip for the championship if they have a manager who can lead them in right direction , sadly it's not steve kean !"

OK nothing surprising in itself, But what i do find a little intriguing though is that it was Re-tweeted by Danny Murphy's missus.(I'm prob just clutching at straws though)

[BuckyRover]

He was also suggesting Tugay/Murphy could be our managerial team

[philipl]

Just re-reading the posts in question, we are not talking about just a 5% stake. The 5% stake is allegedly Kean's interest in a shell company which allegedly OWNS Venky's London Limited. In other words one logical deduction from these posts is that Venky's London Limited is not owned by any of Mr D, Mrs D, Venkatesh or Balaji regardless of what the Premier League has been told.

I have never read through the 400 page dossier presented so these posts in the Lancashire Telegraph are all news to me:

"When are the majority of Rovers fans going to wake up to the fact that Steve Kean is UNSACKABLE - why?, because he is one of the owners !! (he is one of the directors, 5% stake, of the shell company that owns Venkys London Ltd and Venkys London Ltd, in turn, owns BRFC)."

Hi - Yes the shell company documentation is part of the dossier that was shown to Scudamore of the PL then the FA (their compliance departments already had this information and has also been passed onto the Sports minister.

[T.J.Newton]

He was also suggesting Tugay/Murphy could be our managerial team

cant see how that would work(doubt they even know each other!), individually though.