[Archived] So what is the situation now

[rhodie]

Can you help me out here?

You say that "Venky's London Limited is personally owned 25% each by Mr D, Mrs D, Venkatesh and Balaji."

but you linked to the LET and suggested we read the comments of J.C Rishton who states that re Kean he "is one of the owners !! (he is one of the directors, 5% stake, of the shell company that owns Venkys London Ltd and Venkys London Ltd, in turn, owns BRFC"

How can Venkys London Ltd be owned solely by the Mr D, Mrs D, Venkatesh and Balaji AND at the same time be owned by a shell company of which Steve Kean is supposed to own 5% of?

Exactly ,It just seems to be naughty rumours from J.C in the Telegraph.As Phillip says Rovers are 99.9% owned and registered to the Venkys.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Jeez, we're in trouble if Kean's successor has as much promotion success as Roy Keane had at Ipswich

He meant to say Keane at Sunderland......they lost all 4 of their first 4 games then came 2nd.

Completely off-topic but I've just seen Jordan Slew score for Oldham against Sheff Wed....nicely taken goal.....I hope he does well there and Dickov is their manager.

[PAFELL]

Exactly ,It just seems to be naughty rumours from J.C in the Telegraph.As Phillip says Rovers are 99.9% owned and registered to the Venkys.

Correct ONLY if what has been registered is true.

You would have thought if there was truth in this rumor it would have been acted upon. But often legal things can move very slowly.

[chaddyrovers]

He meant to say Keane at Sunderland......they lost all 4 of their first 4 games then came 2nd.

Completely off-topic but I've just seen Jordan Slew score for Oldham against Sheff Wed....nicely taken goal.....I hope he does well there and Dickov is their manager.

When Roy Keane took over Sunderland they were bottom of the league and lost all 4 games.

Then RK took over and they won the league that season didn't finish second

[rhodie]

Correct ONLY if what has been registered is true.

You would have thought if there was truth in this rumor it would have been acted upon. But often legal things can move very slowly.

The only way an agent or any other person could make money out of Rovers is if the Venkys DO own the club,and they take their eye off the ball or they are sold players at exorbitant commission fees etc.nudge ,nudge.

[HemelRover]

The only way an agent or any other person could make money out of Rovers is if the Venkys DO own the club,and they take their eye off the ball or they are sold players at exorbitant commission fees etc.nudge ,nudge.

Its not the ONLY way.

If you were to lay sizable, but not outlandish, bets against Rovers. Then found some way to control team selections, results or relegation. You could earn yourselves quite a good chunk. Would be quite hard to pull off.

And you wouldnt be able to do it with a club you own, would you?

[jehrover]

Whether or not Kean owns 5% is irrelevant when asking the question of 'can he be sacked?'. Unless he had more than 50% he can be forced out at any point the majority shareholders see fit. The only benefit to owning 5% for Kean would be he could claim a share of the 'profits' that the club generates through a systematic reduction in the wage bill and selling off players which we have witnessed over the last 18 months. Even this surely wouldn't be worth the risk of criminal proceedings being brought against him and Venky's should such an arrangement ever be proven.

I for one believe entirely that Shebby Singh is a PR guy who has been brought in to try and deflect attention away from Kean whilst he continues as manager under less pressure than last season. One thing is for sure, Singh has gone down the route of setting a 'target' for Kean, which one would expect he will fail to meet. This is unusual for the Venky regime, and means that if we are not challenging for promotion and Kean is not sacked, then Singh will be exposed as a liar just like the rest of them.

The 17 points from 7 games target I also heard last week, which is a frankly incredible target to demand from any team. Reading were nowhere near that at the start of last season and look how they ended up. The first 10 games are going to be very interesting indeed. From what i've seen we'll be in the bottom third.

[Baz]

The only way an agent or any other person could make money out of Rovers is if the Venkys DO own the club,and they take their eye off the ball or they are sold players at exorbitant commission fees etc.nudge ,nudge.

How about large numbers of relatively low value transfers, with the agent getting a decent cut each time? Promising the next player is the next batistuta, Smalling, Denis Irwin etc?

[bob fleming]

You could pay Agents silly money on transfers then cut that 2 or 3 ways - into different bank accounts for instance

You could sell all the best players, pocket the money, then buy new ones with more agents fees, whilst building up debt, and not paying off the bank. You could then just shut the holding company down (so long as its not doing much other business of course)

You could go down in spectacular fashion, win two or three games and look practically safe, then go on a ridiculously long losing streak that defies belief. What would the odds be on that?

I'm sure there are ways to do it if you tried hard enough.

Anyway, back to Rovers. This is clearly all the fans fault.

[Hasta]

Whether or not Kean owns 5% is irrelevant when asking the question of 'can he be sacked?'. Unless he had more than 50% he can be forced out at any point the majority shareholders see fit.

If Kean did own 5% and it wasn't disclosed then you would have to ask who owned the other 95% ?

[alexanders]

Its not the ONLY way.

If you were to lay sizable, but not outlandish, bets against Rovers. Then found some way to control team selections, results or relegation. You could earn yourselves quite a good chunk. Would be quite hard to pull off.

And you wouldnt be able to do it with a club you own, would you?

Has happened in football before. Could also explain all the players coming in and out. Need to surround yourself with footsoldiers.

Maijo Cvrtak

The ease with which this criminal entrepreneur could infiltrate Belgian football circles is a matter for

concern, all the more so as his action was copied by another fraudulent investor several years later.

Revealed during the investigation for the Bochum trial, an instance of corruption in the club UR

Namur - at that time playing in Belgium.’s Second Division - reveals the fragility of the world of

football in the face of Mafia intrigues.

The chairman of UR Namur, Jean-Claude Baudart, was seeking a rescuer/buyer for the club, which

was in serious financial difficulty, but all his efforts failed. He then turned to a Croatian investor living

in Germany, Marijo Cvrtak. On 22 January 2009, Chairman Baudard and Marijo Cvrtak concluded an

agreement whereby the Croatian would pay €€100,000 followed by two tranches of €€50,000 over the

space of four months. Cvrtak also agreed to take over the club.’s debts, amounting to €€700,000, in

exchange for a place on the Club Board, where he was introduced as the club.’s saviour. In order to

give credibility to his arrival, Cvrtak invented a false Slovakian sports management company, BTC

Sport Management. Now solidly established within the club.’s management, Cvrtak brought seven

players into the club, whose salaries he lent and whom he knew to be corruptible. Two of these players

went on to play a major part in rigging matches: Serb Nemanja Cvetkovic and Bosnian Dragan Bubic.

The latter was hired to .“buy.” other teammates. In any event, his transfer did not really comply with the

criteria for a sportsman because the club.’s medical team judged him to be 29 kilos too heavy to be

competitive! Six players were eventually involved, their bonuses generally amounting to €€2,000 for

each rigged match. During this time, Cvrtak and his associates took full advantage of the matchrigging,

pocketing €€225,000 from the betting market. The Namur club has since been relegated to

Division Three and Cvrtak was sentenced to five years in prison. His assets in a bank in Zagreb were

frozen and the amount (€€3,606,95554) testifies to the resources of today.’s transnational criminal

organisations.

The two examples above perfectly illustrate the interest that criminal organisations may have in

moving into the management of a sports club, and the ease with which they implement their strategy.

In some countries with more powerful criminal networks than others, sporting circles are specifically

targeted by the Mafia. Mafioso not only own clubs directly, but also have secret links with club

chairmen and certain underworld circles.

[Waggy76]

If Kean did own 5% and it wasn't disclosed then you would have to ask who owned the other 95% ?

Very interesting Mr Bond !

I am convinced , that kean is unsackable until someone finds out who the real owners of the club are ....

I wrote to Agnew a month ago asking him why is Kean still the manager ?..I got a 3 line bog standard reply that didn't answer the question ...

Time will tell very soon now , I cannot help thinking Shebby will be gone before September 1st ....

As for the other 95% lol it could be anyone , maybe even a football agent , stranger things have happenend ....

[Ralfinho]

Don't know if this has been posted but worth posting again

[Ewoodbhappy]

Don't know if this has been posted but worth posting again

Classic!

[Baz]

Just a shame the cameraman moved it away from Keans face at the vital moment.

[perthblue02]

In response to questions about if its not listed at Company's house how can xxxxxx own part of the club. This transcribed from the Dispatches programme how to buy a football club , tried to put a link up to the video previously but it seems its blocked in the UK. Apologies in advance for any typos I'm a slow typer. Could explain our rush to get into the Championship

"In the Championship it's even less transparent, perhaps Barnsley Town takes your fancy if so you will find they are owned by Oakwell holdings (shows Companies House Document) except all the shares are held by Manchester solicitor Mark Oppenshaw Blower" We phoned up Mark Oppenshaw Blower he said he was not the owner but wouldn't tell us who was, Perhaps Southampton football Club takes your fancy and if it does and you will find their owners rejoice under the title (shows Document - Full details of Shareholders) DMW SL 613 LTD and the owner of that company turns out to be Swiss German businessman Marcus Lieber

Herr Lieber died a year ago."

"Of the 24 clubs in Championship 17 have owners who are foriegn , offshore , unknown or dead"

Talking to Greg Clark Chairman of the Football League - "Are you confident you know who the owners are of every club in the football League? " Greg Clark - "No I'm not, theres a process of validation that let's the football league know who the owners are, who the owners of the owners are gets more difficult, and who the owners of the owners of the owners are gets even more difficult"

[Baz]

In response to questions about if its not listed at Company's house how can xxxxxx own part of the club. This transcribed from the Dispatches programme how to buy a football club , tried to put a link up to the video previously but it seems its blocked in the UK. Apologies in advance for any typos I'm a slow typer

"In the Championship it's even less transparent, perhaps Barnsley Town takes your fancy if so you will find they are owned by Oakwell holdings (shows Companies House Document) except all the shares are held by Manchester solicitor Mark Oppenshaw Blower" We phoned up Mark Oppenshaw Blower he said he was not the owner but wouldn't tell us who was, Perhaps Southampton football Club takes your fancy and if it does and you will find their owners rejoice under the title (shows Document - Full details of Shareholders) DMW SL 613 LTD and the owner of that company turns out to be Swiss German businessman Marcus Lieber

Herr Lieber died a year ago."

"Of the 24 clubs in Championship 17 have owners who are foriegn , offshore , unkown or dead"

Talking to Greg Clark Chairman of the Football League - "Are you confident you know who the owners are of every club in the football League? " Greg Clark - "No I'm not, theres a process of validation that let's the football league know who the owners are, who the owners of the owners are gets more difficult, and who the owners of the owners of the owners are gets even more difficult"

And yet easily solvable, by changing the regulations so that only 1 layer can be in place (holding company).

[T.J.Newton]

Don't know if this has been posted but worth posting again

shame cam holder was such a wuss.

Isnt that Keans Super bodyguard stood on the left holding the bag, he did a great job!

[OJRovers]

It would be interesting to know Phillippe Huber's role in this from Switzerland. Owns SEM via Kentaro, has personal connections to Venkys.

[tomphil]

It would be interesting to know Phillippe Huber's role in this from Switzerland. Owns SEM via Kentaro, has personal connections to Venkys.

Kean himself and Venkatesh as well mentioned in their interviews that meetings had taken place in Zurich over the summer. strange although Venkys do have a large business over there so maybe it was just easier that way. Who needed to be at these meetings though ?

[47er]

In other words there are certain players that think the fans are complete and utter numpties. Who cares as long as they do what they are paid to do and do it to the best of their ability. There were a few times last season where they simply rolled over and gave up and if the truth be known they are just as much to blame as the manager.

With regards to Kean or anyone else being 5% directors of the club, there is no way that is true or even feasible.All directors have to be registered by law at companies house, not only to prove there responsibilities and liabilities but also for tax reasons. Kean isn`t mega rich enough to throw money into a bottomless hole and I am sure he actually would make more money by being an employee. These theories about agents owning the club also don`t make sense because they would basically be fleecing themselves. Oh and even if Kean was a director he can still be sacked for gross misconduct or any other serious transgressions or failures in performance it just takes a vote off the other Directors. All company information is readily available from companies house for a nominal fee and basically can be accessed by anyone that asks.

Did I imagine this or did the FA try to find out exactly who owned Leeds Utd AND FAILED?

[47er]

Fair enough they are self -reported ,but some of the main reasons you declare yourself a director is

1- To claim any dividends i.e profits from the company.

2- To claim proxy powers to entitle you to voting on decision making.

3- To limit your personal liabilities when things go tits up.

4- To entitle you to your share of monies if the co. is sold.

These amongst others are what I would consider to be the important aspects if you wanted to get anything out of owning a company.

There is no point owning the company or even a share if you haven`t got these powers.I really don`t see how owning a non profit organisation and resorting to such subterfuge is going to benefit anyone.

Quick point ---- what are shell companies for? Not to sell petrol!

[Ste B]

Kean himself and Venkatesh as well mentioned in their interviews that meetings had taken place in Zurich over the summer. strange although Venkys do have a large business over there so maybe it was just easier that way. Who needed to be at these meetings though ?

Dont read too much into that, Venkys spend a lot of time in Switzerland as they have a few other business interests there.

[47er]

If Kean did own 5% and it wasn't disclosed then you would have to ask who owned the other 95% ?

What's being mooted, as I understand it, is that Venkys London own the club but a shell company owns Venkys London.

I've no idea whether this true or not but it helps to answer your question and illustrates that someone could claim to have no stake in a company while having a stake in the holding company.

[Miker]

What's being mooted, as I understand it, is that Venkys London own the club but a shell company owns Venkys London.

I've no idea whether this true or not but it helps to answer your question and illustrates that someone could claim to have no stake in a company while having a stake in the holding company.

Venkateshwara Hatcheries owns Venky's London. So if the suggestion is that Kean owns 5% in one of the biggest chicken companies in Asia then... well... you make your own conclusion.