[Archived] So what is the situation now

[Miker]

Did I imagine this or did the FA try to find out exactly who owned Leeds Utd AND FAILED?

The problem with clubs like Leeds is that they were getting owned by dodgy no-name companies, usually some form of investment company with an unclear history and records. The link of ownership at Rovers is a lot more clear cut than that. BRFC is owned by Venky's London who are owned by Venkateshwara Hatcheries. A business with a huge income and value, a large reputation in Asia with the ambition to spread their brand globally. Their entire business plan is built on innovation and long-term success, not making a quick buck here and there. The concept that they have left themselves exposed to exploitation by some random Scottish coach and "his cronies" is just a ludicrous theory to me. Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No.

[Rovermatt]

Let's just say the keanites in the dressing room , wouldn't spit on you if you was on fire

If you can't name names then fair enough, but how big a faction is this and does it include senior players (senior in Rovers terms anyway - if indeed there are any such people left)?

While this may be a rather obvious question, what exactly is their problem with the supporters?

[patrickvalery]

The problem with clubs like Leeds is that they were getting owned by dodgy no-name companies, usually some form of investment company with an unclear history and records. The link of ownership at Rovers is a lot more clear cut than that. BRFC is owned by Venky's London who are owned by Venkateshwara Hatcheries. A business with a huge income and value, a large reputation in Asia with the ambition to spread their brand globally. Their entire business plan is built on innovation and long-term success, not making a quick buck here and there. The concept that they have left themselves exposed to exploitation by some random Scottish coach and "his cronies" is just a ludicrous theory to me. Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No.

I'm inclined to agree. Lets be honest, Kean hasn't managed to organise our defence in 18 months. To think he could mastermind such corporate fraud is pushing the realms of reality.

The big stink at Rovers was the Kentaro link. Some say that stench has gone and others say its not. But my opinion, for what it's worth, is our owners rocked up all wet behind the ears and got taken for a very expensive ride. Whether they were advised to clear the decks of Williams et al or whether they left becuase of the changing ethics of the club isn't important. They left regardless. Then Venky's find themselves with a shiny new Premier League football club and nobody to run it. Venky's fall out with or simply opt out of the 'consultancy' agreement with Kentaro and now they are left floating on their own. They didn't know where to start looking for suitable replacements. I speculate, but possibly Mr Agnew, having had some experience at PNE, steps into the breach to help Venky's. Kean reports directly to Pune with sugar coated updates of progress at the football club despite league positions, and Venky's are simply niave enough to believe that despite poor performance, brighter times are just around the corner. The fan protests and hatred aimed in their direction make them shy away from the club and it is quite literally left to Kean and Agnew to run the show.

Relegation follows, banking arrangements change, cash is forth coming etc etc.... However, the family have been sold another vision. That of Shebby Singh. The big voice of Asian football punditry. They appoint him to oversee goings on at Ewood because they trust his opinion. The fact he has media experience and likes to get his face on TV is a plus point. He can be the face of Rovers. Someone to speak to the fans, report back to Pune and oversee the football side of things too. Yes he might make a decent fall guy if needs be. But ultimately i think they employed him because they didn't know where else to go.

[Rovermatt]

If against all rational footballing logic, Kean remains in post then I'd have to say the implications are horrific.

Do you mean the implications for the club itself, in terms of punishment by the governing bodies or indeed ceasing to exist at all?

[glen9mullan]

If you can't name names then fair enough, but how big a faction is this and does it include senior players (senior in Rovers terms anyway - if indeed there are any such people left)?

While this may be a rather obvious question, what exactly is their problem with the supporters?

Small numbers and nowhere near as many as those who want out whilst kean remains.

[Stuart]

I'm inclined to agree. Lets be honest, Kean hasn't managed to organise our defence in 18 months. To think he could mastermind such corporate fraud is pushing the realms of reality.

The big stink at Rovers was the Kentaro link. Some say that stench has gone and others say its not. But my opinion, for what it's worth, is our owners rocked up all wet behind the ears and got taken for a very expensive ride. Whether they were advised to clear the decks of Williams et al or whether they left becuase of the changing ethics of the club isn't important. They left regardless. Then Venky's find themselves with a shiny new Premier League football club and nobody to run it. Venky's fall out with or simply opt out of the 'consultancy' agreement with Kentaro and now they are left floating on their own. They didn't know where to start looking for suitable replacements. I speculate, but possibly Mr Agnew, having had some experience at PNE, steps into the breach to help Venky's. Kean reports directly to Pune with sugar coated updates of progress at the football club despite league positions, and Venky's are simply niave enough to believe that despite poor performance, brighter times are just around the corner. The fan protests and hatred aimed in their direction make them shy away from the club and it is quite literally left to Kean and Agnew to run the show.

Relegation follows, banking arrangements change, cash is forth coming etc etc.... However, the family have been sold another vision. That of Shebby Singh. The big voice of Asian football punditry. They appoint him to oversee goings on at Ewood because they trust his opinion. The fact he has media experience and likes to get his face on TV is a plus point. He can be the face of Rovers. Someone to speak to the fans, report back to Pune and oversee the football side of things too. Yes he might make a decent fall guy if needs be. But ultimately i think they employed him because they didn't know where else to go.

This has always seemed the most plausible explanation to me, PV. Although you've omitted Paul Hunt's involvement and Venkys ignorance, nay, stubbornness over his recommendation to remove Kean.

There is definitely a non-football reason for Kean being here though, and it's hard to believe it's through sentiment. This is why conspiracy theories start. For some reason, it appears Desai trusts Kean over all others - bizarrely even, it seems, her own family. Whether she is impressed by his positive attitude and it has helped him gain her confidence, who knows. Despite Kean's indescretions - and BigSamGate was surely embarrassing for Kean and Venkys - he has NEVER publically criticised Venkys. Maybe his willingness to "toe the line" is what has saved him, time and again. Oddly, results and his record seem almost immaterial.

As soon as I heard that Singh reported to Belaji, his potential influence was over as far as I'm concerned. Belaji himself, apparently couldn't sway his sister's mind, why would his advisor be able to do any different?

It's almost like a particularly amateurish chess game now between quibbling siblings, with Kean, Agnew, Shaw and the other line toers in the Desai ranks, and Singh as Belaji's kingmaker - without the proverbial king-making influence.

That's unless people subscribe to the idea that Singh is simply here on behalf of Desai/Kean to tell the fans what they want to hear. E.g. The "position is already filled joke" - that, the reaction of Rovers fans, and Singh's reaction to the raucous laughter made me feel very uneasy and suspicious, I have to say.

Once again for those at the back... Business as usual.

[alexanders]

Does Peter Mortimer Crossley say anything to anyone?

There are 4 principals in Venkys London Limited:

Mr Venkatesh Banda Rao

and

Mr Jitendra Desai ?

Venkys London Limited is 100% owned by Venkateshwara Hatcheries PTY LTD

Those are the only names through connected to Venkys XPRS UK LTD and Venkys XPRS LONDON LTD.

[purplegrover]

So is it being suggested that Kean owns 5% of Venkateshwara Hatcheries ? - i.e. he is not listed as an 'owner' of Venkys London, because he isn't - (The four Venkys listed as directors, with the shareholder being Hatcheries). Rather he is a part owner of the owner of Venkys London... Which is how he has the influence, but isn't 'on the books'. It would explain the trips to Pune and the bizarrely close relationship he seemed to have with Mrs D (and apparently, or so I've read on here his wife has with Mrs D). But how on earth does a massive Indian chicken company allow a weird scottish motivational speaker to own 5% of it ?

I just don't understand. It seems so far fetched.

Patrickvalery's theory seems to make more sense - Clueless Indian owners are sold a dream - "Buy this football club, and Venkys will become huge in the UK. Think of the profile. Think of the benefits. This nice agent will sort it all out for you..."

Then, it all goes tits up when the team fails - basically through bad advice and dreadful management.

In despair, but with a massive chicken empire to run and bugger all time to spend trying to fix what is, in effect, a minor corner of the business, it is parked in the 'too hard basket'. Rovers is left in an 'in tray' in Pune as being something that will be looked at one day - but we have chicken to worry about. No big decisions made. No-one sacked. All too hard.

After relegation, someone takes a look in the 'too hard basket' and is reminded "Oh..that bloody football thing. Ok, its still too hard, but lets put a fellow Asian with a decent profile in there. He'll understand our business. We'll see where it goes in a year or so.".... Back into the "too hard basket".

[davulsukur]

Don't know if this has been posted but worth posting again

Haha, quality!

[Paul Mellelieu]

The only weakness is PV's account, which to me sounds the most likely explanation of the mess we're in, is Kean's continuing stewardship.

Kean having a five per cent stake in the club seems farfetched to me. Where does a guy with his employment record get that kind of money? (I guess that's an invitation to the conspiracists too.)

[OJRovers]

I dont buy the 'clueless owners' theory

They are quick to pull the trigger when they want rid of people who could have helped them (JW,Finn,Goodman,Hunt,SW,Big Sam) so why the blind loyalty to Kean who is the one who is destroying their investment?

[Miker]

My theory has been that lack of financial support from Venky's last season, a chaotic board room, fan unrest (which would have been painted in the worst possible light whether you like it or not), wantaway and injured players, and the need for team gelling made Kean into a victim last season. Remember those sob story articles about his hard life in Scotland and his fight to finally reach the top? Players and managers were saying "poor Steve Kean, I wouldn't take that if I was him!"

Disclaimier: this isn't how I see Kean, but I wouldn't be surprised for one second that there are many people who see him and sympathise for his situation, and Mrs D could be one of those people.

[Rover Down Under]

In response to questions about if its not listed at Company's house how can xxxxxx own part of the club. This transcribed from the Dispatches programme how to buy a football club , tried to put a link up to the video previously but it seems its blocked in the UK. Apologies in advance for any typos I'm a slow typer. Could explain our rush to get into the Championship

Here it is for anyone who hasn't seen it yet. Going on some of the comments so far a lot of you haven't.

(or try this: http://www.channel4....ball-club-video)

If you don't fancy watching it all just skip to the following;

7.10 - 8.40

25.00 - 29.30 (Clarke's comments are very revealing)

44.20 - 44.30

[47er]

The problem with clubs like Leeds is that they were getting owned by dodgy no-name companies, usually some form of investment company with an unclear history and records. The link of ownership at Rovers is a lot more clear cut than that. BRFC is owned by Venky's London who are owned by Venkateshwara Hatcheries. A business with a huge income and value, a large reputation in Asia with the ambition to spread their brand globally. Their entire business plan is built on innovation and long-term success, not making a quick buck here and there. The concept that they have left themselves exposed to exploitation by some random Scottish coach and "his cronies" is just a ludicrous theory to me. Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No.

Nothing is more ludicrous than Kean remaining as manager of a football club, hence the various

theories.

[forumquizmaster]

Remember those sob story articles about his hard life in Scotland and his fight to finally reach the top? Players and managers were saying "poor Steve Kean, I wouldn't take that if I was him!"

Disclaimier: this isn't how I see Kean, but I wouldn't be surprised for one second that there are many people who see him and sympathise for his situation, and Mrs D could be one of those people.

This is extremely plausible. Just yesterday I had a former colleague here in Scotland (who has a reasonable level of football knowledge usually) talking about Kean's dignity! Rovers fans have been demonised whether we like it or not; whether we deserve it or not.

[bob fleming]

Here it is for anyone who hasn't seen it yet. Going on some of the comments so far a lot of you haven't.

(or try this: http://www.channel4....ball-club-video)

If you don't fancy watching it all just skip to the following;

7.10 - 8.40

25.00 - 29.30 (Clarke's comments are very revealing)

44.20 - 44.30

No can do here. "This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds"

[Howler]

Nothing is more ludicrous than Kean remaining as manager of a football club, hence the serious theories.

Precisely, as others have mentioned Venky's have been pretty quick to wield the axe with most other people at the club who haven't toed the line. No sentimentality or indecision in any of those cases

Is it really as simple as Mrs Desai having a soft spot for salt-of-the-Earth Stevie and his wife? To me that's just as ludicrous as the conspiracy theories regarding ownership, fraud etc

I don't thinks its far fetched at all that having found the Venky's a premiership club at a bargain price that special rights for a certain agent and his client might have been written in to a contract...

[philipl]

Venkateshwara Hatcheries owns Venky's London. So if the suggestion is that Kean owns 5% in one of the biggest chicken companies in Asia then... well... you make your own conclusion.

Venky's London Limited is recorded at companies house as being owned by:

25% Mr D

25% Mrs D

25% Venkatesh

25% Balaji

Those 4 also own VH in the same proportions I believe but VH does not appear on any documentation in this country which is where VLL is registered and domiciled. Therefore your point about VH and VLL having the same owners and therefore linking VH's probity to VLL is as valid as bundling Shrek with gay hardcore porn channels which also happened to have exactly the same owners.

The point at issue is that there is beginning to be a cacofonous racket of different people claiming to have different pieces of evidence that the true ownership of VLL is not in accordance with the documents filed.

I and the BRFC Action Group members have heard what Richard Scudamore said on the subject if indeed the ultimate beneficial ownership of VLL is not in accordance with the papers filed with the football authorities.

I have not seen any direct evidence of the ownership lying elsewhere but I know of three people who have made claims of having documentation proving VLL's ownership is not in accordance with the filings. None of those three individuals has any link to the other two in any way as far as I know and all three are people the vast majority of posters on the MB would accept as ordinarily would not make up claims like this.

It is a deeply intriguing one.

[dave birch]

That's a heavy statement to make, Philip.

One would hope that the owners of that information are willing to part with it.

[philipl]

Venky's London Limited is recorded at companies house as being owned by:

25% Mr D

25% Mrs D

25% Venkatesh

25% Balaji

Those 4 also own VH in the same proportions I believe but VH does not appear on any documentation in this country which is where VLL is registered and domiciled. Therefore your point about VH is one of having the same owners and you can no more link VH's probity to VLL than tie Shrek to gay hardcore porn channels which also happen to have exactly the same owners.

The point at issue is that there is beginning to be a cacofonous racket of different people claiming to have different pieces of evidence that the true ownership of VLL is not in accordance with the documents filed.

I and the BRFC Action Group members have heard what Richard Scudamore said on the subject if indeed the ultimate beneficial ownership of VLL is not in accordance with the papers filed with the football authorities.

I have not seen any direct evidence of the ownership lying elsewhere but I know of three people who have made claims of having documentation proving VLL's ownership is not in accordance with the filings. None of those three individuals has any link to the other two in any way as far as I know and all three are people the vast majority of posters on the MB would accept as ordinarily would not make up claims like this.

It is a deeply intriguing one.

[Rovermatt]

If against all rational footballing logic, Kean remains in post then I'd have to say the implications are horrific.

Do you mean the implications for the club itself, in terms of punishment by the governing bodies or indeed ceasing to exist at all?

[SamDingle]

Philipl and his theories... blimey. Get a grip. I'd picture him wandering around with tin foil on his head to stop the FBI controlling his mind.

Here's another theory. When the Trust had enough, you pimped yourselves around for a foreign sugar daddy as you have no desire to live within your means.

None were interested, so you ended up with fairly clueless Venkys. OK, they're easily led by the agents who swarm around every club and they make poor decisions. You hired a rubbish manager. You sold the good players you couldn't really afford and bought cheaper ones.

You got relegated. Loads of clubs have done it.

Clearly they're naive and seem intent on only employing comedy figures like Shebby and that guy from PNE. But you're still spending an absolute fortune compared to most of the Championship and you're still whingeing.

When we hired Brian Laws we didn't instinctively assume there's some dark global conspiracy to ruin a football club in East Lancs. It was just a bad decision. Take the pain and man up for christ's sake.

[Kelbo]

Philipl and his theories... blimey. Get a grip. I'd picture him wandering around with tin foil on his head to stop the FBI controlling his mind.

Here's another theory. When the Trust had enough, you pimped yourselves around for a foreign sugar daddy as you have no desire to live within your means.

None were interested, so you ended up with fairly clueless Venkys. OK, they're easily led by the agents who swarm around every club and they make poor decisions. You hired a rubbish manager. You sold the good players you couldn't really afford and bought cheaper ones.

You got relegated. Loads of clubs have done it.

Clearly they're naive and seem intent on only employing comedy figures like Shebby and that guy from PNE. But you're still spending an absolute fortune compared to most of the Championship and you're still whingeing.

When we hired Brian Laws we didn't instinctively assume there's some dark global conspiracy to ruin a football club in East Lancs. It was just a bad decision. Take the pain and man up for christ's sake.

You werent in the front row when they issued brains were you?

A little knowledge is a bad thing!

[philipl]

Do you mean the implications for the club itself, in terms of punishment by the governing bodies or indeed ceasing to exist at all?

I am by no means confident the football authorities are sufficiently interested or concerned. I wish they were and the meetings Glen Mullan helped organise gave grounds for optimism but I think we will need Parliament's help to follow through on last session's Select Committee findings and enact legislation to force the hands of the three bodies in the UK. In the final analysis, the PL and the FL are owners' clubs and the surest way of protecting your own soiled linen from being sorted through is to scream blue murder about heavy handed officialdom when the guy next to you gets looked into.

However, if we are called to account then a Board of Inquiry would be convened and after the howls about West Ham not getting demoted, you just know what would happen to us.

I would take demotion if we could have a club with decency, logic and values to support again. I hate looking at Rovers and saying we are an utter joke. I hate hearing people in power say Rovers are an absolute basket case and feeling relief that they see it the same way as I do. I hate seeing a Rovers player make a mistake and the ball go out of play and wondering if some illegal bookie in India has just cleaned up with a cut of the profit going God knows where. I detest the feeling that the best thing that could happen at Portman Road would be an Ipswich win by at least 5 goals....

I know that the majority of Rovers fans are probably feeling relief that somebody else has articulated their deepest thoughts/fears.

If there is no action by the authorities then my prognosis is a cross between purgatory and hell. Here goes:

- Kean survives, Singh doesn't

- Balaji eventually gets bored with his toy and we have a far worse than the Trust scenario of absent owners but this lot are not fans, hate us and are looking to withdraw cash at any opportunity

- we go down again ...and again?

- nobody can buy us because Rovers are too tainted and any sale warranties are utterly worthless in a UK context (yes the State Bank of India in small town Rajasthan)

- X years from now when a scandal overwhelms English football, some pundit says "Yes everybody knew Blackburn Rovers were the first...."

[yeti-dog]

As much as Sam is a dingle and thus rightly deserves both our sympathy and advice on how best to moisturise his webbed fingers and toes perhaps he isn't that far out.

I appreciate that this isn't what the conspiracy theorists might want to hear though..