[Archived] outsider so can someone please explain?

[bradeagle]

You clearly don't understand. I don't back Venky's and I can see that the fans contributed to relegation but were not the main factor behind it. If you actually read what I post you would understand this.

Yesterday you was having a slanging match with someone saying that you couldnt prove any of this as it could not be anwsered yes or no. So you clearly are just on the wind up as all you ever do is try and go against the grain and against the people who have been going to Rovers twice as long as you. Cheers for the ignore link.... good bye

[braddock]

Yesterday you was having a slanging match with someone saying that you couldnt prove any of this as it could not be anwsered yes or no. So you clearly are just on the wind up as all you ever do is try and go against the grain and against the people who have been going to Rovers twice as long as you. Cheers for the ignore link.... good bye

You are confusing contributing and causing. Though you presumably won't see this.

I was saying you couldn't prove it caused it. I am certain that it contributed to it, whether or not that contribution definitely made a difference between survival and relegation.

[Alan75]

Hello Lads, over the weekend I saw video of the panel of Mr Singh saying Mr Kean will be sacked if he loses 3 in a row. Today on SSN's scroller its says Mr Singh has made an unreserved Apology to Mr Kean for these comments. I don't get it, it seems the manager is the most powerful person at the club. It makes no sense.

KEEP ON TOPIC

This is the topic - dont be surprised if off-topic posts are deleted.

[braddock]

KEEP ON TOPIC

This is the topic - dont be surprised if off-topic posts are deleted.

Close thread. Topic has been answered.

[jim mk2]

I can see that the fans contributed to relegation

Tripe.

Managers have 100 per cent responsibility for football results.

Close thread.

[Stuart]

FFS. Can people stop quoting Braddock. It renders the ignore facility pointless.

[ChrisyG]

FFS. Can people stop quoting Braddock. It renders the ignore facility pointless.

Here, here.

[braddock]

Tripe.

Managers have 100 per cent responsibility for football results.

Close thread.

Really? Absolutely no other factors ever?

Here, here.

Will you please stop quoting that guy.

I have him on ignore.

[blue_and_white]

You clearly don't understand. I don't back Venky's and I can see that the fans contributed to relegation but were not the main factor behind it. If you actually read what I post you would understand this.

What an impressively patronising reply to a post that was several levels of intelligence above anything I've ever seen you come out with.

You were criticising the fans for their negative reaction to the destruction of our club, onlyonejackwalker pointed out such a reaction is so intrinsic to loyal customers as to be unavoidable in almost any form of business or organisation. You reply with your standard "you don't understand me".

How about putting it this way: The events of the last 2 years are the worst thing ever to happen to Rovers. If you expected our fans not to complain, then you must expect them to never have complained about anything in the history of the football club. So not once should Allardyce have suffered the "4-4-2" chants or groans of derision at a long-ball, not once should substitutes names have been chanted during matches, no lose pass or wayward shot should produce rumblings of disapproval, and not once should Ince, Kidd, Pedersen, Andrews, Roberts, Yorke, Blake, Ward, Wilcox etc etc have ever received abuse from the terraces.

And indeed you yourself must never have said a bad word about anything going on at Rovers since you began supporting them. If its not acceptable to criticise this, its not acceptable to criticise anything else. So next time I'm dying of boredom, I'll have a look back through your posts and see.

Or I'll save myself the effort and just join what must be the blissful peace and sanity that comes from being part of the growing ignore Braddock movement. Out of interest, does this board ever prompt you to question your view on things given such an overwhelmingly large percentage of people disagree with you? Or do you treat it as more of a blog, dispensing wisdom with the attitude that everyone else is dumber than you so their opinion is irrelevant compared to yours.

[bradeagle]

What an impressively patronising reply to a post that was several levels of intelligence above anything I've ever seen you come out with.

You were criticising the fans for their negative reaction to the destruction of our club, onlyonejackwalker pointed out such a reaction is so intrinsic to loyal customers as to be unavoidable in almost any form of business or organisation. You reply with your standard "you don't understand me".

How about putting it this way: The events of the last 2 years are the worst thing ever to happen to Rovers. If you expected our fans not to complain, then you must expect them to never have complained about anything in the history of the football club. So not once should Allardyce have suffered the "4-4-2" chants or groans of derision at a long-ball, not once should substitutes names have been chanted during matches, no lose pass or wayward shot should produce rumblings of disapproval, and not once should Ince, Kidd, Pedersen, Andrews, Roberts, Yorke, Blake, Ward, Wilcox etc etc have ever received abuse from the terraces.

And indeed you yourself must never have said a bad word about anything going on at Rovers since you began supporting them. If its not acceptable to criticise this, its not acceptable to criticise anything else. So next time I'm dying of boredom, I'll have a look back through your posts and see.

Or I'll save myself the effort and just join what must be the blissful peace and sanity that comes from being part of the growing ignore Braddock movement. Out of interest, does this board ever prompt you to question your view on things given such an overwhelmingly large percentage of people disagree with you? Or do you treat it as more of a blog, dispensing wisdom with the attitude that everyone else is dumber than you so their opinion is irrelevant compared to yours.

If i was clever enough I would have said exactly that.

[booth]

I feel that you are missing the point with the fact that I'm not making posts to wind people up, simply to offer a different opinion which I happen to hold. The only time I specifically did anything to wind people up was my avatar, which was hardly crime of the century, and the censorship of an avatar that breaks no rules would be even crazier than holding different opinions and airing them. Had I been posting pictures as posts showing love for Venky's, off topic to what was being discussed then that would have been trolling. I do occaisionally end up off course when others change the subject and I'm forced to back up my opinions. That isn't trolling, that's just being led off topic.

So if you're advice is to ban somebody for that then my original point stands and it is yourself who has missed the point of the entirety of my posts. Ridicule me all you wish, but you only look foolish alongside me (in the opinion of many on here) in trying to silence somebody who is breaking no rules.

This is an example of a post which has gone off topic, and for this I apologise, but I'm merely responding.

Yes that's what trolls do, they derail threads by trolling.

But you're right, you've done nothing wrong... You're just the one who wrote "sack the fans" when our manager was losing games weekly. That's not going to wind anyone up is it

He also mentioned Dunn in this as well

He said he could tell by the team sheet if we were going to lose and he mentioned if it had Dunn and Pederson in the middle LOL

It's just another situation where someone else is making our club a laughing stock

He did mention Dunn but I took it that he meant you couldn't have two older midfielders in the middle at the same time. Also he picked on Pedersen because previously he played wide. Dunn's pretty much always been a central midfielder, even when Souness wasn't playing him there center was his best position and where he was trained to play.

[braddock]

Yes that's what trolls do, they derail threads by trolling.

But you're right, you've done nothing wrong... You're just the one who wrote "sack the fans" when our manager was losing games weekly. That's not going to wind anyone up is it

Going on some of those games last season I would have been far happier to have lost the fans than the manager. There were times when it would not have been a good time to sack a manager and what was needed was as much unity as possible and a collective push from all concerned. It was never going to happen with the current set up and the fans behaving as they did, and since Kean wasn't going to be sacked, nor was it necessarily a good time for him to be sacked, I'd have rather simply not had the fans there.

[Rover_Shaun]

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I can see that the fans contributed to relegation

Absolute rubbish Braddock.

[Give 'Em the Axe]

Why do you care?

What kind of a snitty response is that? A fan of an other club has interest in and possibly sympathy for our club and that's all you can think to reply? Petty.

[Mattyblue]

Certain periods of last season were 'not a good time to sack Kean'

Considering we were relegated, ANYTIME from August to May would have done.

Must do better Bradders.

[Fife Rover]

To summarise:

Our owners are either evil masterminds intent on destroying the club for reasons unknown or they are just idiots.

Our manager is a little turd who can't manage, motivate, keep his mouth shut or stop himself having 'a wee tipple' before he drives home. Favourite pastimes include lying, exaggeration, misdirection and lip-licking.

Our transfers are being organised by two people; some Indian Krusty the Klown impersonator and Jerome Anderson, a turd of a man and an agent of a large number of players we sign/target... All utterly dire.

Our defence consists of Scott 'sorry' Dann, Myles 'DadlookdadlookatmeI'mplayinginthePremierLeague' Anderson and Bradley 'Brown-nose' Orr plus a few decent players, who oddly enough, aren't Kean fans (Olsson, Givet).

Our head of security has been sacked for allowing a chicken to run onto the pitch and Kean's private bodyguard (whom he has never needed; more exaggeration) has been given a significant role in ground safety. Rumours are that fans shouting 'Kean out' are to be ejected... I've always said that games that aren't behind closed door games are overrated anyway.

So basically we are an in-the-works Carry On movie script constantly being updated with more and more outlandish scenes and characters.

Actually Baggie, that is a pretty fair summary of our situation. Obviously people could add much more detail and that could extend to 100's of pages (literally), but ADB seems to have done a good job so no need for any more.

[booth]

Going on some of those games last season I would have been far happier to have lost the fans than the manager. There were times when it would not have been a good time to sack a manager and what was needed was as much unity as possible and a collective push from all concerned. It was never going to happen with the current set up and the fans behaving as they did, and since Kean wasn't going to be sacked, nor was it necessarily a good time for him to be sacked, I'd have rather simply not had the fans there.

So you would have rather had Steve Kean there.

You deserve relegation, you deserve relegation right up the anus.

[Pedro]

Absolute rubbish Braddock.

I don't think it is. The manager, the owners, the players and to some extent the fans too contributed to it. It only seems acceptable on here to lay blame at the first two though.

[AggyBlue]

I don't think it is. The manager, the owners, the players and to some extent the fans too contributed to it. It only seems acceptable on here to lay blame at the first two though.

The ultimate responsibility for relegation lies with the owners, anything else is just incidentals.

That is irrefutable.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

How on earth did the fans contribute?? Thats a ludicrous claim in my opinion. Kean's record was absolute ****e in his first season with no protests and our record in matches with protests was better than our overall record. There's no quantifiable evidence whatsoever to indicate that the fans had any impact. While Kean's record is there in black and white, as are the facts about who Venkys forced out and brought into the club.

Its shakey ground to suggest fans have an impact at the best of times. But if you've got the worst owners and manager in english football on the case, trying to put any blame on the fans is like putting blame on an ant for standing on a house thats being hit by a wrecking ball.

Plus you're mixing cause and effect here. The cause is Venkean, the effect is fan disgruntlement. Saying it was everyone's fault is the kind of nonsense reasoning you'd expect from some wishy-washy government organisation thats ****** up, and all it does is let Venkys and Kean off the hook. I can see why Braddock would wanna do that with his Mrs Desai avatar, its pretty obvious what his underlying motivation is.

[Gav]

I don't think it is. The manager, the owners, the players and to some extent the fans too contributed to it. It only seems acceptable on here to lay blame at the first two though.

Bunkum.

The fans only got wound up probably 4 times on mass throughout the entire season, to blame them for the debacle in anyway is ludicrous. If the fans had raised the roof week in week out it simply wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference because the manager is inept, simple as that for me.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

I don't think it is. The manager, the owners, the players and to some extent the fans too contributed to it. It only seems acceptable on here to lay blame at the first two though.

No not at all.......to contribute enough to place blame, something needs to play a major role.

Would we have got relegated with even better players than we have now? Yes...within reason, the Barcelona squad might have come 17th.

Would we have got relegated if the fans had got really behind the team and the atmosphere was amazing? Yes.

Therefore, did the fans or even players contribute to relegation considering it would have happened anyway regardless? Well no, obviously not.

It's incredibly naive, and frankly stupid, to think us shouting "Kean Out" and holding up banners seriously affected the players enough so that we "contributed" to relegation....what about how bad we were before the protests, or in the games we didn't protest, what about the games we protested and won, or our magnificent away record with the least amount of wins in the division.

[den]

I don't think it is. The manager, the owners, the players and to some extent the fans too contributed to it. It only seems acceptable on here to lay blame at the first two though.

Bunkum

[bradeagle]

Bunkum.

The fans only got wound up probably 4 times on mass throughout the entire season, to blame them for the debacle in anyway is ludicrous. If the fans had raised the roof week in week out it simply wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference because the manager is inept, simple as that for me.

Lets take a step back a second. When the fans wanted Harford out what did we sing?

We want Harford out a say we want harford out. It probably went on for two or three games gathering more pace and the board acted and took the decision that he had not only lost the players but the supporters. Which anyone can see means your position is untenable and a change is required for the good of the team.

The exact same scenarios happened again replacing the name Harford with Hodgson, Kidd and Incey where applicable and i cannot for one second any one in hind sight can say removing any of those was a bad decision.

Low and behold the next manager who isnt up to the job is first given a chance, and does not improve. Now replace the names with Kean. The only difference this time is that the chants started and when a natural point to sack him emerged, he was issued a new contract. So the chants will inevitable keep getting louder and louder and frustration will boil over as it is uncharted territory.

Enough said.