[Archived] outsider so can someone please explain?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Yes, thats right Braddock,the fans gave their best under the circumstances of pathetic woeful team displays,a pathetic manager waxing lyrical as his team simply imploded against relegation rivals and not to mention the utter choas off the field of play with our hapless owners.....

[braddock]

Why were the players not on the pitch? Our fans have hardly been inventive with chants for individual players over the last 10 years, are fans judged on their naivety to shout no matter what. Do you not believe that fans have a right to show displeasure to poor performances, teams are booed off all the time clubs normally make steps to rectify the problems. How many managers have lasted this long by getting horrific results and alienating supporters?

My issue is not in supporting the manager, it's irrelevant to the point being made. We are talking about the fans.

Sure, teams get booed off, but the key is in the semantics. Booed off, not booed whilst on. Frustration is understandable and grunts when the ball is given away aren't going to stop as they are natural, but booing individual players when they touch the ball, and focussing everything as anger did not help our cause and can only have hindered us.

Yes, thats right Braddock,the fans gave their best under the circumstances of pathetic woeful team displays,a pathetic manager waxing lyrical as his team simply imploded against relegation rivals and not to mention the utter choas off the field of play with our hapless owners.....

Then they aren't very good fans.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Yes, your right...they are ruddy awful swines the lot of 'em!

[braddock]

Yes, your right...they are ruddy awful swines the lot of 'em!

Considering they are the ones who are supposed to really care about the club I do find it surprising that they use such methods. I put it down to a lack of intelligence though.

At least Kean and Venky's have no affiliation to Rovers. It's more understandable that they could jeopardise everything we had, and still currently have.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

In response to the predictable replies:

As per my post, I believe to some extent that we did contribute to the relegation. I'm not denying the cause and effect and like I originally wrote it, I'm not denying that the portions of blame filters down from the top but some supporters were purposefully distractive and disruptive and it is laughable how anyone can deny this.

We weren't unified, we didn't support the club 100%, we didn't always motivate the players, whenever we went a goal down certain groups got straight on the back of the team and manager but most importantly for me we didn't make Ewood a cauldron of hate for the visitors, we made it like that for our own players and fellow supporters. For me, that isn't going to help the guys on the pitch one bit. For those of you that think that positive support doesn't have an impact...just ask the Olympians.

"In response to the predictable replies"......maybe they're predictable as it's stating the obvious.

Blaming the fans for relegation is no different than Kean blaming it on not getting a penalty at 0-0 when we lost to Bolton......if something is going to happen anyway then nothing else can be deemed to contribute towards it.....if there was a chance we could have stayed up, then there is a very slight, almost minuscule, argument someone could make about this apparent "hostile" atmosphere that may have affected the players.

But we spent the whole season conceding at least 2 goals a game, so for that reason alone, without mentioning everything else, we were always going to be relegated......what's "laughable" is thinking we could have stayed up under Kean if the fans created a hostile atmosphere for the opponents.....I seem to remember us doing fine at home before that and it was hardly like that for the opposition before......but that was when we had actual football managers in charge.

[JMillZz]

This is a pointless argument. Braddock isn't going to change his views. Personally I don't think we would have stayed up no matter what the fans were like, simply due to Kean's tactical ineptitude. I got my point across on page 4 with alllll the other reasons as to why we went down and I am gonna leave it at that. Braddock is welcome to think otherwise despite it being, in my mind, illogical.

Also, whilst I agree that booing individual players isn't right I don't think you can put down the protests or chanting against Kean as due to a lack of intelligence. During the Bolton/Wigan games, 90% of the fans were chanting for Kean's head, no doubt including many intelligent people, whether it be students like myself or doctors or anyone. Rovers' fanbase is diverse and a lot of very intelligent people (MP's included) have called for Keanochio to get the sack. Tarring everyone with the same brush is daft.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

You are clearly on the wind up Braddock,its better to leave it there.

[Tom10K]

I do find it puzzling the constant debate about how much of a role the fans played in Rovers relegation last season. Overall in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? If Rovers vocal support had been at its best would it have been enough to bridge the 6 point difference (7 with goals) that would have been needed to avoid relegation. Imagine the euphoria and added support that giving the supporters a new manager would bring, it could be the difference between promotion and staying down.

For anyone hoping the atmosphere improves, thank Shebby for guaranteeing the crowd being firmly against the manager from the off this season. Most fans I know are now hoping for 3 defeats followed by 43 wins. Insanity reigns.

[Pedro]

"In response to the predictable replies"......maybe they're predictable as it's stating the obvious.

Blaming the fans for relegation is no different than Kean blaming it on not getting a penalty at 0-0 when we lost to Bolton......if something is going to happen anyway then nothing else can be deemed to contribute towards it.....if there was a chance we could have stayed up, then there is a very slight, almost minuscule, argument someone could make about this apparent "hostile" atmosphere that may have affected the players.

But we spent the whole season conceding at least 2 goals a game, so for that reason alone, without mentioning everything else, we were always going to be relegated......what's "laughable" is thinking we could have stayed up under Kean if the fans created a hostile atmosphere for the opponents.....I seem to remember us doing fine at home before that and it was hardly like that for the opposition before......but that was when we had actual football managers in charge.

Predictable in that certain people scan and respond without actually reading what is written...but I confess, I've done the same to your response.

You are clearly on the wind up Braddock,its better to leave it there.

The funny thing is, he clearly isn't.

I do find it puzzling the constant debate about how much of a role the fans played in Rovers relegation last season. Overall in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? If Rovers vocal support had been at its best would it have been enough to bridge the 6 point difference (7 with goals) that would have been needed to avoid relegation.

No it doesn't, what's gone has gone and we'll never know. I'm just sticking up for someone with a valid point of view that gets painted as a wind up merchant or troll because he dares to disagree.

[Gav]

You are clearly on the wind up Braddock,its better to leave it there.

Took you a while SG, get him on ignore

[braddock]

I do find it puzzling the constant debate about how much of a role the fans played in Rovers relegation last season. Overall in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? If Rovers vocal support had been at its best would it have been enough to bridge the 6 point difference (7 with goals)

It could merely have given us points at crucial points in the season which could have led to momentum or buoyed the players. It was as if they didn't want to be proved wrong at times.

[Rover_Shaun]

Sadly the players did not earn or deserve any support. Look at what they did around xmas when they were supported to the hilt?

Another reason why saturdays days out will be so enjoyable. No need to watch last seasons surrender monkeys acting like nothing happened

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Predictable in that certain people scan and respond without actually reading what is written...but I confess, I've done the same to your response.

The funny thing is, he clearly isn't.

No it doesn't, what's gone has gone and we'll never know. I'm just sticking up for someone with a valid point of view that gets painted as a wind up merchant or troll because he dares to disagree.

So you're a hypocrite as well as clueless, is that what you're saying?

He's a WUM, nobody can be that stupid, I don't care what you say......you talk a lot of nonsense but not always so I bother to read your posts but if you genuinely think he has a point then you don't quite grasp the fact that anything, and everything, needed to be done to try and get rid of the worst manager most of us have ever seen, meaning you also don't understand football.

[XLM]

Sadly the players did not earn or deserve any support. Look at what they did around xmas when they were supported to the hilt?

17/12 West Brom (H): 2-1 defeat 75% Kean out chants

21/12 Bolton (H): 2-1 defeat 90% Kean out chants

26/12 Liverpool (A): 1-1 draw

31/12 Man Utd (A): 3-2 win

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[Mattyblue]

The message board has turned in to a personal Braddock blog AGAIN.

We all need to ignore the bugger.

[Rover_Shaun]

17/12 West Brom (H): 2-1 defeat 75% Kean out chants

21/12 Bolton (H): 2-1 defeat 90% Kean out chants

26/12 Liverpool (A): 1-1 draw

31/12 Man Utd (A): 3-2 win

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

You should have turned up to the games then pal. The crowd were 110% behind THE TEAM from the start until they shoved their arses in the air for a good shafting after just 15 minutes. At 2-0 down with comical defending they deserved all they got and then some. When the players then went on to show they could put up a fight the crowd was back onside willing them to an equaliser.

Same against WBA when the kean out chants started in the 99.99th minute after more comical and cowardly defending led to another defeat. Once again the players were not the main aim of the derision as the manager was taking the flak when some should have gone their way.

The team did not deserve a lot of the backing they got. The manager was incompetent but the players were in the main abysmal too. I'm sure their inflated wages for the tiny talent they have has soothed their pain. Hell even Mr Orr had the time and hard faced nature to absolve them all from blame and lick clean the whole of Keans backpassage, both outside and in.

[XLM]

You should have turned up to the games then pal. The crowd were 110% behind THE TEAM from the start until they shoved their arses in the air for a good shafting after just 15 minutes. At 2-0 down with comical defending they deserved all they got and then some. When the players then went on to show they could put up a fight the crowd was back onside willing them to an equaliser.

Same against WBA when the kean out chants started in the 99.99th minute after more comical and cowardly defending led to another defeat. Once again the players were not the main aim of the derision as the manager was taking the flak when some should have gone their way.

The team did not deserve a lot of the backing they got. The manager was incompetent but the players were in the main abysmal too. I'm sure their inflated wages for the tiny talent they have has soothed their pain. Hell even Mr Orr had the time and hard faced nature to absolve them all from blame and lick clean the whole of Keans backpassage, both outside and in.

I was there. And the atmosphere was unacceptable. The players looked frightened to be on the ball.

You try playing football with 20,000 people angrily chanting negativity towards you and your manager.

Again, I have no idea how you're using those games as an example of where the players were "supported to the hilt".

[Jock]

I was there. And the atmosphere was unacceptable. The players looked frightened to be on the ball.

You try playing football with 20,000 people angrily chanting negativity towards you and your manager.

Again, I have no idea how you're using those games as an example of where the players were "supported to the hilt".

Please state what negative chants were aimed at the players during these games? Because i never heard them.

[CrazyIvan]

Negative chants towards the manager (or anyone else) are going to have some kind of impact. The fact that most of the chants started a long time after Kean got the job means the fans had seen what a shocking job he'd done and made their views clear. Kean just made the situation a hell of a lot worse with everything he has said and done( especially aimed at the fans) since.

You have to go back and look at the history for a clear picture. I was there when Kean took over. First match was average at best (West Ham) and we lost against Stoke but then we went on to beat West Brom, lose to Sunderland and by the time we beat Liverpool there were a few songs of Steve Keans Blue and White Army. They didn't last long as Steve Keans fairly decent form spell ended once we completed the double against West Brom. (3 wins, 1 draw, 3 losses). There wasn't much in the way of negative songs for the rest of that season to be honest. The win at Wolves on the last day (what a feeling) was the highlight of his tenure. Since then, it has been a constant drip-feed of bullshit from his mouth to our ears. Fortunately, fans see straight through it. The media doesn't.

So, fans to blame (in part) for relegation? Given the chance they gave him and his total inability to take it? Not on your nelly. Yes, negative chants won't help but he did the damage himself, not the fans. We were there to support him and the team and I know there were a lot who gave him a chance. He's taken that and ###### it back at them laughing his way to the bank at the same time.

[XLM]

For the record, I'm in (nearly) complete agreement with the above. I still give partial blame to the fans for our relegation though. It would have happened at most other clubs, that's just the nature of football fans. I had the hope though, that our fans could try their utmost to pull the club through and keep the turmoil off the pitch, but the majority jumped on the confrontational bandwagon far too readily.

Please state what negative chants were aimed at the players during these games? Because i never heard them.

Boos and chants at the manager after every misplaced pass or shot is hardly morale boosting.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

For the record, I'm in (nearly) complete agreement with the above. I still give partial blame to the fans for our relegation though. It would have happened at most other clubs, that's just the nature of football fans. I had the hope though, that our fans could try their utmost to pull the club through and keep the turmoil off the pitch, but the majority jumped on the confrontational bandwagon far too readily.

Boos and chants at the manager after every misplaced pass or shot is hardly morale boosting.

"Partial blame to the fans"? Ridiculous suggestion.....almost inconceivable....how exactly? Can you not see how bad he really is as a manager? How much blame? If it's anything more than 0.1%, it's preposterous.....the damage that VenKean did to the team is so much more than anything the fans could have done, let alone what they did......."keep the turmoil off the pitch"....what like when we protested after the game at home to City? 20,000 fans, 200 stayed and protested...."it's only 1%", "the vocal minority".

Jumping on the "confrontational bandwagon"? Yea that's it mate, they're all just sheep who can't think for themselves.......statistically our worst manager ever was just a mere coincidence......we didn't even have the remotest chance of staying up anyway.......our team was cut open at will, all season long.....minus 30 goal difference and we had the 4th highest goal scorer in the league.

You know what else isn't "morale boosting"?....being constantly played out of position, being physically unfit, conceding on average more than 2 goals a game, 78 in a season, keeping 6/7 clean sheets in over 60 games, constantly being on the back foot defensively, not getting any protection from midfield, sitting on the bench when you've played well in what little game time you've had, not getting a proper run in the team, seeing your best defender sitting on the bench as you're conceding 3 goals...again, seeing both your captains want to leave, seeing the way a true legend who is more than 1000x the footballer the "manager" was being treated like that, being in the relegation zone for more than 90% of the season, watching Heskey score against you, conceding 7 goals in a single game, averaging the least possession at home in the top 5 leagues of Europe, winning 2 games in a row for the first and only time in March.

Actually I take part all of that, turns out the fans did contribute to our relegation after all.

[Rover_Shaun]

And what happened towards the end of the season when the team WERE supported to the hilt "again"?

Yes that's right the gutless cowards lost 8 out of the last 9 and then all looked for transfers

W**kers the lot of them

[Jock]

For the record, I'm in (nearly) complete agreement with the above. I still give partial blame to the fans for our relegation though. It would have happened at most other clubs, that's just the nature of football fans. I had the hope though, that our fans could try their utmost to pull the club through and keep the turmoil off the pitch, but the majority jumped on the confrontational bandwagon far too readily.

Boos and chants at the manager after every misplaced pass or shot is hardly morale boosting.

So you cant think of any chants aimed at the players then during these matches?

[den]

I blame the Rovers Fans for our relegation.

If every fan had given Kean and Venky's even more stick and refused to buy season tickets, Kean would have gone at the end of his first season.

[Stuart]

Boos and chants at the manager after every misplaced pass or shot is hardly morale boosting.

That's quite simply untrue.

Do you work for Rovers?