[Archived] GAME THREAD - Hull City Home 12/13

[den]

Can we please leave Sam in the past once and for all? That chapter is over, never to return. Finito, no more, defunct and ex-parrot.

No chance. I'm afraid this is only the first page.

[Kelbo]

I think after seeing how poor we are playing, more teams will be less negative in their approach to playing us away......agree 100% about Nzonzi.....he looked better next to Jermaine Jones and with Etuhu beside him he could drive forward with the ball like in the games where he was allowed to last season.

But Ipswich are guaranteed to be part of that 80% and we struggled to get a point off them.....I know it was the first game and the heat played a factor but we are so disorganised and Kean is so utterly clueless that we will be lucky to finish top half.

The squad looks poor because Kean makes it look poor.....Yakubu looked good because he held the ball up well, layed it off then finished a load of chances when they came to him in the box......Givet, Samba, P Jones and Hanley played well because they're CB's so it's their job to win tackles, headers and interceptions, that is all.....J Jones and Nzonzi played well together because they were DM's and there wasn't any creativeness to our midfield....meaning their job wasn't too strenuous....barring attempting to win the ball back.

But for the others they are relying on Kean to give them instructions, a game-plan and what tactics to follow and therefore it makes them look poor because Kean is a fool.......the goalkeeper usually looks bad because Robbo has weaknesses and the defensive set up is a shambles......the full backs receive no protection from the wingers and have too much to do.....only 1 striker is ever played up top meaning only their 2 CB's have to stay back and opposition full backs are free to get forward.....Orr, Lowe and Olsson are hardly the greatest full backs but Salgado went from being one of our best players under Sam to one of our worst under Kean due to not getting enough protection.

No defensive midfielder got stuck in enough meaning Nzonzi, Petrovic and Lowe looked worse.....when any player, in midfield especially, has the ball there is hardly anything on for them to pass to....Nzonzi would almost act like a deep-lying playmaker for us last season, passing to players in front or to the side of him, with the ball normally being played right back to him again as there was no forward movement so he would have to go backwards for Dann or Robbo to hoof it to nowhere.

Hoillett and Martin Olsson 2 seasons ago looked good, same as Vukcevic, because they are direct players who looked to take full backs on and get balls into the box, or get to the byline and cut it back.......but for other midfielders, there is no proper gameplan, no fluency and no link up play between the players and therefore there is very little chance of them being allowed to play well, unless they do things on their own like beating a man, playing a very good pass, or having a shot on goal.....our lack of pass-and-move is an absolute travesty, certain games are a complete joke in how often our players just pass it about while standing still.

On top of all of that, we aren't fully fit, we don't vary our tactics based on the opposition, we don't change out tactics based on how the game is going, other managers do just that and stifle our players, hardly anyone gets a proper run in the team, poor use of substitutions, other reasons on top of that........Norwich's team had quite a few players in it that came from League 1.....Lambert is a very good manager, got them playing the right system, got them fully fit and motivated and they could have beaten anyone last season....they won at some very hard grounds and could have at a few others as well......now they have an average manager and will most likely be relegated......would they have lost 5-0 to Fulham when Lambert was there? I very highly doubt it.

Robbo Robbo

Orr Hanley Givet Henley Orr Hanley Givet Henley

Vukcevic Murphy Etuhu Nunes Kazim Murphy Etuhu Vukcevic

Rochina Rochina

Kazim Best

Those sides could certainly get promotion under a real manager.

Also, I heard on the radio and again through here that Nuno Gomes had a real impact when he came on....can people elaborate on that and say exactly what he brought to the side.

Awareness of what was around him!

[Rover_Shaun]

No chance. I'm afraid this is only the first page.

But I still don't see how harping on about Fat Sam is helping the situation? Yes it was wrong for him to be sacked. Yes his style kept us in the league but unless we need more tedium than listening to Kean and watching his team play he is now irrelevant

[den]

But I still don't see how harping on about Fat Sam is helping the situation? Yes it was wrong for him to be sacked. Yes his style kept us in the league but unless we need more tedium than listening to Kean and watching his team play he is now irrelevant

that tells me all I need to know. How ever much people get fed up with the subject, it is the reason why the club's in the mire. Because of that reason and because his sacking was the first illustration of how Venky's intended to run the club, it wont be forgotten by many.

Not me, mind you. Wouldn't dream of bringing this up again.

[ruggles1995]

The highest I can see us finishing is around 9th and Kean will be still be in charge at the end of season. Any1 no when his contract runs out?

[Rover_Shaun]

I'm not saying forget him Den. Keep his picture by the bed and a little one in your wallet by all means ;-) but in the here and now the main objective is getting rid of the current imposter and ultimately the owners. In all that Sam has no part to play other than to start yet another Sam was good/bad/indifferent debate.

Now about getting rid of Kean.............

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Well you're saying don't talk about him. In a kind of "don't mention the war" fashion. I'd just like a few of his erstwhile critics to admit how wrong they were, say he actually did a cracking job here and in future if rovers get an unstylish manager that gets results, they'll be right behind him. Call it closure for all those months of fighting a defensive action against his hordes of dullard critics.

[roverandout]

the difference between the chumpionship and the premiership is that premiership teams would have put 1 or 2 away with the chances they created, chumpionship teams on the whole don't have a striker capable of converting their chances, thats why kean will be let off the hook, not because he is a good manager but because chumpionship teams are 90% ######

[Rover_Shaun]

Does it really matter if hindsight favoured your opinion Toad? It just causes more division and arguements. It could have so easily have gone the other way had Venkys had a single brain cell and employed someone other than a cluless simpleton. Lament him if you want but do it in private and lets concentrate on the things that can affect the here and now as well as the future.

[thenodrog]

@colt seavers.

Completely agree re Nzonzi. He would be perfect for propelling us out of this division.

Agree entirely. Head and shoulders above most Championship midfielders.

[roversfan99]

Murphy is a much better passer and Etuhu a much better destroyer. He wouldn't get in the team.

[Colt Seavers]

Probably all academic anyway, I can't see him being picked by Kean ever again to be honest.I was worried by Murphy's all round play yesterday, particularly his energy levels. He never once shut up which was good to see. He demands every ball and obviously has an excellent football brain, just wish he was two or three years younger....

[Whyoy]

Some rose tinted glasses being worn on here. Nzonzi was pretty useless for most of last season, much worse than the previous season when he looked to have a lot of potential.

On the game last night, Mr Salagado-is-a-hero got it right. Mr Keans tactics of pass and stand will not get us out of this division. A bit more fitness might get us to the stage of pass and walk. Pass and move is a tactic we can only dream about,

[Muddboy]

Does anyone know of any links where pictures of last night's deserted Ewood can be viewed?

Ta!

[JBiz]

Answer a few questions;

Firstly, the last mention of Keans contract is till 2013. He did renegotiate but I remember it was mentioned he didn't receive an extension. That said I would not believe a single thing from anyone inside the club.

Nuno Gomes should thrive at this level if he is used for the "teddy sheringam" impact on games. His legs will not last for 90 minutes, but with the pace we tend to play because of the 100 year old midfield we have, he should do fine from the start. That said, his first touch is class - the control which led to the goal was sublime. He looked quite hungry also.

If Hull are the benchmark for teams coming to Ewood and setting up to stop us, I can see some extremely varied results this season. For example, if an away team goes a goal up, you can guarantee every man behind the ball stuff - very difficult to break down. The players we have in key positions; Robbo, Givet, Murphy, Etude etc are a class above in this league. An average manager would make us a lot more robust; Kean's tactics have always lacked willingness to push a high line and press a team in their own half.

Still - for one of the first times, the timing of the substitutions made sense last night. 61 minutes - if only he had made this decision at Portman road, because we would be sat with 6 points right now.

I would also like to say how bad I feel for Jason Lowe. He will definitely lose confidence playing in different positions - especially when his performances have dipped. His own goal at Ipswich was caused by a natural right footer being in the wrong position. A left footed left back would clear that ball all day. Also, he lacked any inventiveness going forward last night and a lot of his crosses failed to clear the first man.

Surely play the more "experienced" Orr at left back - or buy one instead of/and a striker

5/10 for the game

[USABlue]

Soooo, he can still get 17 from 7, loss this weekend will end that possibility but the wicked evil imposter will STILL be employed

[thenodrog]

The truth is that our squad is of superior quality to the vast majority of this league. Even with an incompetent manager employing terrible tactics and picking the wrong players we will probably have enough to beat most sides in this league.

Thats a gud un eddie! For a minute you had me going that you were being serious!

"The truth is"...... that last promotion team featured the likes of Freidel, Berg, Short, Flitcroft, Dunn and Duff (both 21 btw), Jansen, Berkowic, McAteer, Gillespie, Hignett and Hughes!

They would absolutely hammer todays squad. Look at it another way..... who out of this years squad would even get on the subs bench 12 years ago?

Lets be honest who this side of Pune.... sorry Paris is daft enough to think that our lot are being assembled for their footballing ability rather than their bounty? BRFC 2012 is a bloody scandal.

[thenodrog]

Also got to ewood in record time and the queues at the bar were significantly smaller so stay away you rebels and leave us 'Rovers Fans' to it....

Every black cloiud has a silver lining eh Dave?..... Enjoy it while you can. You have until the sums dont add up and they cut the bar staff.

[thenodrog]

This is the biggest problem in the Championship, knowing which teams are the threat. I cannot for the life of me see teams like Leeds or Burnley playing against us like Hull did. There has to be teams with pace who play at a faster tempo and with more intensity than the opposition last night.

imo Blackpool are shaping up to be the team everyone will need to beat.

We will but only because we have to, Leeds probably will, Cardiff and quite a few others, like Blackpool. Funny thing is I think this division is a lot harder than half of you think and perhaps not quite as tough as the other half of you think. On squad alone you should beat 80% of the division easily.

Well we've played two and that hasn't happened yet has it longsiders? From all reports we could quite easily be sitting bottom with zero points.

Spot on Longsiders. Our squad must also be the largest in the League in terms of numbers which will allow us to rest and rotate players as the marathon 46 game season unfurls.

Anybody know if anyone has produced a league table based on player wages in this Div? That might be quite shocking.

Because the Darwen End contains humans, is funny, noisy, and rebellious.

I watched one match (swansea) from there last season and from my single observation just 50% of your statement is true.

[thenodrog]

Can I just point out regarding the lamenting of the quality, atmosphere and entertainment of games in this league. This is EXACTLY why myself and others were more than happy with what Big Sam served up.

I just knew there'd come a point when the mass moaning that used to go on about the style of football in home wins against strong opposition would look beyond stupid, and now we've reached it.

We reached it way back SKH..... Feb / March 2011 to be precise.

The highest I can see us finishing is around 9th and Kean will be still be in charge at the end of season. Any1 no when his contract runs out?

Difficult to say when appears to be in a position to renew it himself.

I'm not saying forget him Den. Keep his picture by the bed and a little one in your wallet by all means ;-) but in the here and now the main objective is getting rid of the current imposter and ultimately the owners. In all that Sam has no part to play other than to start yet another Sam was good/bad/indifferent debate.

Now about getting rid of Kean.............

The same question still applies though..... Get rid of Kean and who could we attract who would

a. come here under this lot.

and

b. be a better 'fit' for a small club with limited finances than Allardyce?

Does it really matter if hindsight favoured your opinion Toad? It just causes more division and arguements. It could have so easily have gone the other way had Venkys had a single brain cell and employed someone other than a cluless simpleton. Lament him if you want but do it in private and lets concentrate on the things that can affect the here and now as well as the future.

Wise people learn from their mistakes BWA.

[Rover_Shaun]

Wise people learn from their mistakes BWA.

Hopefully when this is all behind us they will have......is that a flying pig? :-)

[JC4LAB]

...The evidence of tuesday was none of Keans signings have been better or as good as the players they replaced.and the feeling on the Riverside was n one of numb acceptance Our team is like.diluted beer losing more and more of its taste as you add more water...Hull were scared to death at the start but on realising that ours was a possession game in our own half with defenders passing cross field and in harmless triangles with midfield ,they knew they had little to fear..A few games under the belt and teams will know beforee hand this is how we play...Etuhu the only star on the night in his brilliant at time tackling ...the Yak and Holileet would have murdered Hull ..shame they re gone..

[Fife Rover]

The highest I can see us finishing is around 9th and Kean will be still be in charge at the end of season. Any1 no when his contract runs out?

As long as Venkys are our owners and Anderson is his agent it will never run out.

[Fife Rover]

Thats a gud un eddie! For a minute you had me going that you were being serious!

"The truth is"...... that last promotion team featured the likes of Freidel, Berg, Short, Flitcroft, Dunn and Duff (both 21 btw), Jansen, Berkowic, McAteer, Gillespie, Hignett and Hughes!

They would absolutely hammer todays squad. Look at it another way..... who out of this years squad would even get on the subs bench 12 years ago?

Lets be honest who this side of Pune.... sorry Paris is daft enough to think that our lot are being assembled for their footballing ability rather than their bounty? BRFC 2012 is a bloody scandal.

+1,000,000 BTW Theno are you on nights, or just can't sleep?

[braddock]

Blimey, a victory and a clean sheet. Looking good if we aren't out of first gear yet!