[Archived] england

[Shabani]

Exactly, how anyone can say that objecting to racism is us trying to impose our 'morality' around the world is bizarre

You'll be defending the missile throwing next because using your logic thats acceptable too

[Mike E]

I'd like to see someone try to bring the Middle East into the 21st Century. No hope.

They recently took a broad leap into the 9th Century AD by beginning to build 'a city for women' separate from their capital city (apologies for the vagueness, I forgot which country it was, but somewhere in the Middle East). I THINK it was Saudi Arabia.

Exactly, how anyone can say that objecting to racism is us trying to impose our 'morality' around the world is bizarre

You'll be defending the missile throwing next because using your logic thats acceptable too

Exactly, well said. Anyone uses my deafness as an excuse to have a go (in person ofc), they'll get a swift kick to the knackers, no matter where they live.

[True Blue & White]

Objecting to fans making monkey gestures and noises at black players is not arrogance - it's basic human decency.

In our morality yes, not in theirs.

Morality is subjective in case you hadn't noticed, not to mention the fact we were doing the same thing 20 years ago. John Barnes was getting bananas thrown at him by his own fans FFS.

So we are not in a position to start lecturing other people about what is right and wrong when we were committing those same acts not so long ago. We've changed our ways, they still need to catch up but to pretend we are some how holier-than-though and squeaky clean ourselves is just asinine.

Exactly, how anyone can say that objecting to racism is us trying to impose our 'morality' around the world is bizarre

You'll be defending the missile throwing next because using your logic thats acceptable too

I am not defending them, nor am I saying you can't object to racism. I was backing up the earlier point that whilst we should condemn it, we shouldn't start going around demanding other teams are banned from football (like Gerrard is) or acting like petulant school children (like Rose did, albeit understandably).

Again, look at John Barnes. He got abuse from opposing fans, his own fans and even his own players and yet he just 'got on with it' and ignored it. And look where we are now, it worked it seemed. Trying to isolate people you don't agree with is a dangerous ploy and shouldn't be underestimated.

[K-Hod]

You must have had your eyes closed.

Not even dignifying that with a response.....

[jim mk2]

In our morality yes, not in theirs.

We had a big problem and we dealt with it. And no one is pretending we are now perfect - witness John Terry.

However the English football authorities have shown that it is possible to stamp out racism as it is relatively rare in this country these days.

This isn't about "morals" - it's about basic human decency in 2012. It's time for Fifa to act and force eastern European football to enter the modern world.

You should do the same.

[Silencio]

Objecting to fans making monkey gestures and noises at black players is not arrogance - it's basic human decency.

Nothing wrong with objecting to it but the players should get on with it for the 90 minutes and pressure the authorities to sort it the rest of the time...

[Amo]

hardly overrated, 30 odd goals last season for man utd, just overplayed, has been since he broke onto the scene,

England's best players are ALWAYS overrated. We can't help ourselves.

[dr_awol]

Nothing wrong with objecting to it but the players should get on with it for the 90 minutes and pressure the authorities to sort it the rest of the time...

nope this is just wrong, the referee should be stronger and just abandon the game, award the game to the abused them by +10 goals

granted if its just one r two people they should be evicted from the ground and arrested.

[Silencio]

nope this is just wrong, the referee should be stronger and just abandon the game, award the game to the abused them by +10 goals

Absolute rubbish. Racism was cut successfully in the UK by long term campaigning and dialogue, not by abandoning games… Unfortunately we are going to have to wait for the more backward nations to see the light or for UEFA/FIFA to punish them heavily enough to stop them. In any case, while there's a game to be played you play it...

[dr_awol]

Absolute rubbish. Racism was cut successfully in the UK by long term campaigning and dialogue, not by abandoning games… Unfortunately we are going to have to wait for the more backward nations to see the light or for UEFA/FIFA to punish them heavily enough to stop them. In any case, while there's a game to be played you play it...

OK we will let people get racially abused(while doing there job) for the next 15 years while "backward" nations catch up.

While people are chanting this stuff, kids will pick it up and continue on in a cycle

[Salgado Is A Hero]

England's best players are ALWAYS overrated. We can't help ourselves.

Ashley Cole being the exception in the last 10 years or so......actually Lampard is consistently quality but not for the national team.

10 point deductions for excessive racism like the other night, as in not just a minority of people that every country has......even if "fans" start the racist chanting, other fans would soon stop them if they knew it would end their qualifying hopes.

[thenodrog]

nope this is just wrong, the referee should be stronger and just abandon the game, award the game to the abused them by +10 goals

granted if its just one r two people they should be evicted from the ground and arrested.

Like that would be workeable. If that happened the stadium would be chock full of Croatians or Montenegrans etc with armfuls of banana's.

[roversfan99]

Ashley Cole being the exception in the last 10 years or so......actually Lampard is consistently quality but not for the national team.

10 point deductions for excessive racism like the other night, as in not just a minority of people that every country has......even if "fans" start the racist chanting, other fans would soon stop them if they knew it would end their qualifying hopes.

Whilst the racism was completely out of order, was it just me that was more alarmed by the way the Serbians were kicking out, swinging punches and generally attacking anyone with an England badge on much more? Watching them wrestle Steve Wigley away from the tunnel whilst kicking him continiously was disgraceful.

[thenodrog]

Gordon the dinosaur strikes again. This is 2012, not the 1960s, and by anyone standards the behaviour of racist elements in the crowd in Serbia and eastern Europe in general is no longer acceptable. You are very sensitive about your hair colour and vertical deficiencies so I'm sure you know how the black players feel.

Tell you what John ... why dont you start a campaign to get all those johnny foreigners to speak English and drive on the left hand side of the road too?

imo If people have any sort of self esteem or strength of character why is it that they can allow themselves to be insulted or intimidated by a bunch of base ignorant morons behaving with a mob mentality? Have we bred a nation of softies? Does nobody find it intriguing why so many black people appear to have been conditioned into feeling ashamed rather than proud of their skin colour?

btw Vertical deficiencies? Any deficiencies on here are your intellectual ones.

[jim mk2]

Does nobody find it intriguing why so many black people appear to have been conditioned into feeling ashamed rather than proud of their skin colour?

Good grief. I can't believe you've written that.

[patrickvalery]

Good grief. I can't believe you've written that.

I heard John Barnes talking about racism and descrimination in football the other day. And, to be fair to Gordon, he alluded the same thing. Of course this was only in the context of football, but he had a point. Why do African nations look to appoint top European coaches? Because they believe the home grown coaches are not capable and do not have the same ability as white European coaches. What message does that send to black footballers from those countries?

I thought he (Barnes) raised a valid point.

[jim mk2]

Irrelevant. Gordon's talkiing about the colour of their skin.

[patrickvalery]

Irrelevant. Gordon's talkiing about the colour of their skin.

Sorry sir. It won't happen again sir. I'll leave you and Gordon to sling muck at each other now sir.

[SydneyRover]

I'd have a wager he won't beat Charlton's record. I can't see him having a prolonged career and quite frankly, he isn't a good enough goal scorer to not only finish what comes his way for England, but to create enough chances either. He's a born midfielder in my eyes .Despite a few good seasons in front of goal at Utd, i don't see the ruthlessness of a true center forward. People talk about him leading the line for England and playing off the shoulder of the last man etc... Well that all seems like bobbins to me. He lacks the instinct of a Lineker, Rush (Welsh i know) or Shearer. For me Rooney could be, in time, our next Paul Scholes. But IMO he'll never lead the line well enough for England.

He's more of a Peter Beardsley type player than a Scholes type player for me, subtle difference but I still think his natural position is as a forward though maybe not an out and out striker

[patrickvalery]

He's more of a Peter Beardsley type player than a Scholes type player for me, subtle difference but I still think his natural position is as a forward though maybe not an out and out striker

Yeah thats a better comparison. Either way, be it a deep lying center forward or out and out midfielder, imo he's far more suited to either of these rather than foraging upfront on his own. It just wastes what talent he has got.

Saying that, we're hardly blessed with options up front so i guess needs must.

[Amo]

Rooney compared to Beardsley.

Good God, there's an image I don't need.

[DeadlyDirk]

Imagine the kids!

Totally agree about England's players being over rated for the most part, it's like how they bang on about Joe Hart being one of the best goalkeepers in the world! He's the best english goalkeeper by a country mile yes but doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Buffon and Neuer. If he was Spanish he probably wouldn't even get in the squad.

As for the racism and some of you banging on about how they should get on with it that;s ridiculous. As mentioned it's 2012, racism in this day and age is wrong and a criminal offence. By just 'getting on with it' shows that we are willing to accept it which certainly isn't the right way to go.

[thenodrog]

Good grief. I can't believe you've written that.

Irrelevant. Gordon's talkiing about the colour of their skin.

I don't believe the colour of someones skin is something to be ashamed about. You obviously do.

Not only that you quite obviously have major issues with it. Very skewed attitude imo cos you frequently use other genetically influenced physical traits to insult all manner of people. Not only that but you also use peoples origins as a weapon to insult.

[jim mk2]

I don't believe the colour of someones skin is something to be ashamed about. You obviously do.

Not only that you quite obviously have major issues with it. Very skewed attitude imo cos you frequently use other genetically influenced physical traits to insult all manner of people. Not only that but you also use peoples origins as a weapon to insult.

Where have I said someone's skin colour is "something to be ashamed about" and why do I have "major isues with it" ? I must I admire the way you are trying to turn this around because you have a history on here of having a problem with our resident "IndoPak" (your words) community and take any opportunity like the recent England Under-21 match to dismiss blatant racism.

[roverandout]

for the first time in ages i couldnt give a toss about england, i havent even seen rooney's goal yet, such a mundane, one dimensional team and i was someone a couple of years ago that would defend the england team to the hilt