[Archived] Steve Kean (multiple merged threads)

[philipl]

No false accusations have been made, in fact what has been stated quite clearly is this, if Keans appointment was not for footballing reasons, which it most certainly wasnt, then his appointment was for something else, now, what could it have been?

Precisely.

The dossier presented by the Action Group does not make accusations as far as I am aware. It does ask some very searching questions and includes evidence from which the man on the Clapham Omnibus would conclude that regulations and laws are being broken.

The Football Authorities are the regulators so need a higher level of proof than simply drawing logical conclusions. It is how they handle this challenge (and others) which could determine whether Parliament legislates on taking regulation out of their hands.

[Rainmaker]

As Phillip states, I reckon it all comes down to why Shebby's arrived and how much influence he has. There has been an apparent decrease of Kean's power since Shebby came on the scene.

I do agree that Shebbys arrival has diminished Keans power.

I do, however, think that Shebby was brought inn for only one reason. Provide a buffer between the fans and Kean/Venkys, and to try to appease the fans (albeit not sucessfully).

I believe that is why Shebby made the comments about Kean and The Pensioner formerly known as Pedersen. I we look at the most "loud" comments by fans over the last few years (or 18 months) it has been;

1. Kean out.

Therefore Shebby comes forward with criticism of him and sets a Target(17 from 7) for him getting the boot, to try and show that the owners have a plan. Alt the while hoping the squad is good enough and the opposition bad enough that that situation does not come to fruition.

2. Which player has been the proverbial scapegoat and gotten the most stick? (now that Andrews is not around) Pedersen

That's why he was singled out by Shebby, he is the player the fans have been most vocal about. A manangement that echoes the criticism of the fans must be good, right? Only that kind of backfired on him.

[philipl]

Either,

We are witnessing a charade of a fight designed to hide reality, or

We are rapidly reaching a "this club is not big enough for the two of us" situation and one of Kean and Singh depart.

If it is the latter, it doesn't invalidate the argument that Rovers are not owned by Venky's. The Pune veil has been sufficiently penetrated for the gulf between Mrs D and her two brothers to have become extremely apparent. Not all of the Raos need to be in bed with an Agent and Manager.

[den]

No false accusations have been made, in fact what has been stated quite clearly is this, if Keans appointment was not for footballing reasons, which it most certainly wasnt, then his appointment was for something else, now, what could it have been?

Well maybe you know more than me Kelbo, but I see no evidence to suggest that he wasn't simply brought in to coach players that Kentaro would supply. Hence the claims from day one of Europe via £5m, loans and youngsters. That's how they were going to make their money and still are. Shebby is here to give the Raos the real story behind what's going on at the club.

It's a very simple explanation - which sometimes are the best. Is it true? Well I've seen no evidence to suggest it's not.

[ABBEY]

here is another for you coco and braddock are outrendous

Why waste letters T1T5 will do.

[Kelbo]

Well maybe you know more than me Kelbo, but I see no evidence to suggest that he wasn't simply brought in to coach players that Kentaro would supply. Hence the claims from day one of Europe via £5m, loans and youngsters. That's how they were going to make their money and still are. Shebby is here to give the Raos the real story behind what's going on at the club.

It's a very simple explanation - which sometimes are the best. Is it true? Well I've seen no evidence to suggest it's not.

I do know it simply cant be for footballing reasons, why wasnt Neil McDonald offered the job? surely more qualified as a number two and with managerial exerience with Carlisle! Why wasnt a proper manager approached, why Kean? I have seen little evidence of young players that have been brought in improving their game,!!

The only players he has sold for a profit were players here when he took over, the rest have been sold for less or dumped!!

[braddock]

I do know it simply cant be for footballing reasons, why wasnt Neil McDonald offered the job? surely more qualified as a number two and with managerial exerience with Carlisle! Why wasnt a proper manager approached, why Kean? I have seen little evidence of young players that have been brought in improving their game,!!

The only players he has sold for a profit were players here when he took over, the rest have been sold for less or dumped!!

Did McDonald want the job after Allardyce had left? We don't know.

Are Venky's naive and could they have believed Kean could do the job after speaking to him? This is certainly not a theory which could be discarded quickly.

[den]

I do know it simply cant be for footballing reasons, why wasnt Neil McDonald offered the job? surely more qualified as a number two and with managerial exerience with Carlisle! Why wasnt a proper manager approached, why Kean? I have seen little evidence of young players that have been brought in improving their game,!!

The only players he has sold for a profit were players here when he took over, the rest have been sold for less or dumped!!

I'm saying the Raos wanted a coach, not a manager Kelbo.

[Kelbo]

I'm saying the Raos wanted a coach, not a manager Kelbo.

Well, they had a coach, that was his job, a number 3, leave him as coach to try and develop the young players and get a manager to do a managers job!!

[braddock]

Well, they had a coach, that was his job, a number 3, leave him as coach to try and develop the young players and get a manager to do a managers job!!

Did they want a manager though?

[den]

Well, they had a coach, that was his job, a number 3, leave him as coach to try and develop the young players and get a manager to do a managers job!!

Well, they had a coach, that was his job, a number 3, leave him as coach to try and develop the young players and get a manager to do a managers job!!

Look, The raos were approached by JA who persuaded them that he could provide them with plenty of young lads on the cheap who would make them a profit. They could cut the costs of a manager and all his following entourage by simply employing a coach. That in fact is what's happened and is still happening.

I see no other creditable explanation.

[braddock]

They may be under the impression that all they need to do is get the right man bringing in the young guns and then the puzzle will be complete.

[Kelbo]

Did they want a manager though?

Obviously not and we still havent got one!!

[den]

They may be under the impression that all they need to do is get the right man bringing in the young guns and then the puzzle will be complete.

Could well be that the brothers got shaken by the relegation and wanted change, but Mrs D believes, or has to be persuaded that [like you said] the problem is with the players and not the coach. She also realises that to change completely to a manager and all his followers is going to cost a fortune. That's where Shebby comes in. She wants someone she trusts to give her the full story.

[winstonsmith]

Did McDonald want the job after Allardyce had left? We don't know.

Are Venky's naive and could they have believed Kean could do the job after speaking to him? This is certainly not a theory which could be discarded quickly.

There is compelling evidence that:

1.Venkys did not offer the manager's job to McDonald; and

2.Venkys planned to remove Allardyce and instal Kean in his place prior to the takeover.

[den]

There is compelling evidence that:

1.Venkys did not offer the manager's job to McDonald; and

2.Venkys planned to remove Allardyce and instal Kean in his place prior to the takeover.

Because they never, ever wanted a manager. That's proven isn't it? Kean hasn't bought any of the players, he's simply trying to get them to perform as a coach might do.

[braddock]

There is compelling evidence that:

1.Venkys did not offer the manager's job to McDonald; and

2.Venkys planned to remove Allardyce and instal Kean in his place prior to the takeover.

1. But did they want someone so close to Allardyce to take over?

2. And if they planned to remove Allardyce and put Kean in place then does that discredit the theory that den has suggested?

[philipl]

Did they want a manager though?

They certainly didn't get one!!!

[arbitro]

Did McDonald want the job after Allardyce had left? We don't know.

Are Venky's naive and could they have believed Kean could do the job after speaking to him? This is certainly not a theory which could be discarded quickly.

Sam Allardyce said after he was sacked that one of his main disappointments was that Neil McDonald wasn't offered the job. From that I conclude that Neil would have taken the job and that there was never a cat in hells chance of him getting it as the Indians had already got Sam's successor lined up.

[den]

Sam Allardyce said after he was sacked that one of his main disappointments was that Neil McDonald wasn't offered the job. From that I conclude that Neil would have taken the job and that there was never a cat in hells chance of him getting it as the Indians had already got Sam's successor lined up.

All sorted before the buy out was finalised. McDonald would have wanted the managers job, but they didn't want a manager. JA had the perfect solution already lined up [allegedly].

[winstonsmith]

Sam Allardyce said after he was sacked that one of his main disappointments was that Neil McDonald wasn't offered the job. From that I conclude that Neil would have taken the job and that there was never a cat in hells chance of him getting it as the Indians had already got Sam's successor lined up.

Spot on.

According to Sam's account in the Telegraph a week after the sackings, Neil McDonald was not offered the job despite being better qualified to be the manager than Kean. As Sam said, 'If there was anybody capable of looking after the reins, with all due respect to to Steve, it would be Neil McDonald'.

Also, we know from Andy Cole's article in The National, they had made plans prior to the takeover to remove Sam and instal Kean.

[braddock]

You're not reading everything on the last page are you?

[BuckyRover]

I really can't see it being anything other than what den has said. More often than not the simplest answers are the correct ones and also never assume criminality when incompetence is viable.

They were sold a pup by he who shall not be named. What is happening now is the breakdown in trust with people trying to work out who is acting in whos best interests.

I could have course be totally wrong and we may be owned by other people. I don't know why that would be risked though. People had everything they needed in above scenario without additional risk of illegality.

[John]

What's really changed since Shebby has come in?

We have bought quite a few players but the money was also being spent by JA in that infamous January when the club was rocking.

Off the pitch, apart from Karen Silk IMO, we are yet to see a well qualified, merited appointment to show we want to be a successful football club - why is that?

[Pedro]

There is compelling evidence that:

1.Venkys did not offer the manager's job to McDonald; and

2.Venkys planned to remove Allardyce and instal Kean in his place prior to the takeover.

There is evidence that they wanted someone honest, dignified and with real integrity, a thinker...you know, someone who thinks good.

Only two men met this mould in the eyes of the Venkys, the future Nobel Prize winner Sir Steve Kean or Diego Maradonna.