[Archived] Premier League Happenings

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I always cringe a bit when I read the United referee conspiracy nonsense. It reads like a Liverpool forum.

You are joking aren't you ?

[DE.]

You are joking aren't you ?

Not at all.

There are a lot of reasons United had the advantage at times, but refereeing decisions? Not for me. Certainly no more than any of the other big teams, who on the whole do get the rub over smaller teams. The difference between the other big teams and United was Ferguson pushing his players to perform until the absolute end, leaving them terrified of being accused of not giving their all for the cause. No other manager in recent times except possibly Mourinho in his first stint at Chelsea commanded that kind of respect and loyalty. If City ever had a manager even close to Ferguson in stature and motivation they'd walk the league every year and the same gripes about referees favouring them, etc, would be leveled at them.

[Audax]

I certainly know I watched Aston Villa at OT once and I've got to say AET ran about 8 minutes, I don't think that was the only match like that. West Brom has gotten a bad deal this year and looking at the table, those points might come into play so they complained and were probably right to do that and shouldn't run into that more this year.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Not at all.

There are a lot of reasons United had the advantage at times, but refereeing decisions? Not for me. Certainly no more than any of the other big teams, who on the whole do get the rub over smaller teams. The difference between the other big teams and United was Ferguson pushing his players to perform until the absolute end, leaving them terrified of being accused of not giving their all for the cause. No other manager in recent times except possibly Mourinho in his first stint at Chelsea commanded that kind of respect and loyalty. If City ever had a manager even close to Ferguson in stature and motivation they'd walk the league every year and the same gripes about referees favouring them, etc, would be leveled at them.

You must be new to supporting Rovers. Those with longer memories will recall the long series of abysmal decisions that the Red Rats got courtesy of the officials. Just a few - the Berg sending off complete with penalty at Ewood, the Beckham free kick allowed to be taken when it shouldn't have been, the Sherwood equaliser at OT ruled out for a non existent push on Keane, Wilcox being wiped completely out at OT in the area and nothing being given when we were winning 1-0, Ince equalising from a corner with the last kick of the game when it should have been a goal kick. Grabbi having a perfectly good goal ruled out when Bartez dropped the ball.

Any other Rovers fans with memories longer than a goldfish care to add to this list.

[Amo]

It's been statistically proven that Man. Utd got more extra time than any of the other so-called Top Four.

[DE.]

You must be new to supporting Rovers. Those with longer memories will recall the long series of abysmal decisions that the Red Rats got courtesy of the officials. Just a few - the Berg sending off compete with penalty at Ewood, the Beckham free kick allowed to be taken when it shouldn't have been, the Sherwood equaliser at OT ruled out for a non existent push on Keane, Wilcox being wiped completely out at OT in the area and nothing being given when we were winning 1-0, Ince equalising from a corner with the last kick of the game when it should have been a goal kick. Grabbi having a perfectly good goal ruled out when Bartez dropped the ball.

Any other Rovers fans with memories longer than a goldfish care to add to this list.

I remember it all very well, thanks. But if you're going to take a condescending tone like that then forget it.

[jim mk2]

I remember it all very well, thanks. But if you're going to take a condescending tone like that then forget it.

Dummy exits pram. Anyone who follows football knows United have had favours for the past 20 years. Why deny it ?

[donnermeat]

You must be new to supporting Rovers. Those with longer memories will recall the long series of abysmal decisions that the Red Rats got courtesy of the officials. Just a few - the Berg sending off compete with penalty at Ewood, the Beckham free kick allowed to be taken when it shouldn't have been, the Sherwood equaliser at OT ruled out for a non existent push on Keane, Wilcox being wiped completely out at OT in the area and nothing being given when we were winning 1-0, Ince equalising from a corner with the last kick of the game when it should have been a goal kick. Grabbi having a perfectly good goal ruled out when Bartez dropped the ball.

Any other Rovers fans with memories longer than a goldfish care to add to this list.

The extra minute of injury time added on after Fergie complained, compounded by the last minute equaliser from old cherryade lips via Louis Saha's arm.

[LDRover]

The last minute equaliser at OT from a corner that never was where Schmeichel shoved Hendry to the ground.

Stonewall pen on Lucas Neill not given in 1st leg of CCC semi.

[thenodrog]

It's been statistically proven that Man. Utd got more extra time than any of the other so-called Top Four.

Aren't there some amazing stats about the lack of penalties given against MU at OT?

[DanLad]

And something about a ref awarding a penalty against Utd at Old Trafford and not being allowed to officiate another game for 2 years, or something?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Aren't there some amazing stats about the lack of penalties given against MU at OT?

Yeah and when we did eventually get one Dunny missed it !

[jodrell]

Yeah and when we did eventually get one Dunny missed it !

After the second keeper should have been sent off.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

After the second keeper should have been sent off.

Yep, I'd forgotten about that one. I'm still green enough to be pretty sure the officials aren't bent or bought off in some way but they can be intimidated by the circumstances just like some players can.

[Audax]

I remember it all very well, thanks. But if you're going to take a condescending tone like that then forget it.

Let's all be kind to DE. After reading his posts for 3, maybe 2 years and mind you, I can't read minds, I think DE views MUFC slightly favourably and in turn Liverpool the opposite. I could be wrong. It's no big deal, just my observation.

Maybe, just maybe a lot of us have a personal favourite of what was once the "Big 4", at least when they are playing in Europe, I usually am for the English club but not always. I'll leave it at that.

[Guest Norbert]

Can anyone find a clip of that blatant Sandro hand ball that wasn't given? I have heard it was crazy to think the ref missed it.

[DE.]

Let's all be kind to DE. After reading his posts for 3, maybe 2 years and mind you, I can't read minds, I think DE views MUFC slightly favourably and in turn Liverpool the opposite. I could be wrong. It's no big deal, just my observation.

Maybe, just maybe a lot of us have a personal favourite of what was once the "Big 4", at least when they are playing in Europe, I usually am for the English club but not always. I'll leave it at that.

Don't worry pal, I don't need anyone to be kind to me I dish it out enough so I can take it as well. I was just frustrated at what I felt was an unneccessary attack on me for daring to have a different opinion... but by gones I guess. Not the first or last time that'll happen!

All of the above posts are fairly irrelevent to the overall question of whether United on the whole get decisions go their way. They're all Rovers-specific and only answer the question of whether we've had some unfortunate calls go our way against United down the years - it's pretty undeniable that we have and not the point I was making. Toppers is the only one who has really made a relevant point regarding United having the most stoppage time allowed out of all the other top four clubs - but then, somebody had to be top, didn't they? United had a 25% chance of being at the top of that list which is fairly high and not necessarily suggestive of bias. United's attacking prowess is always likely to earn more fouls against them as teams try to inturrupt the flow of the game, so maybe not a surprise.

The fact is United are the most hated and loathed team in England, primarily because of their success. Most other clubs are insanely jealous and imo quite pettily put it all down to refereeing conspiracies and FA favours. As far as I'm concerned the reason United have won so much over the years is simply because Ferguson had an incredible appetite to win at all costs and moulded his team in that image. I don't prefer United over any other clubs - why would I? But neither do I hate them based on largely unfounded conspiracy theories.

I noticed Gordon mentioned the lack of penalties given at OT, assumedly citing that as proof United have ref bias going in their favour... but this opinion overlooks the reasons behind it. If we strip away the very easy "they have the ref in their back pocket" explanation there are far more logical reasons as to why this is the case. Most teams go to Old Trafford and sit back and defend (or at least, they did in the past). United would spend most of the match with possession and attacking, so of course they are more likely to get penalties and free kicks in the opponent's half. It's common sense, isn't it? This is especially true of the final ten minutes when United relentlessly attacked and inevitably broke teams down. The more often you're in an opponent's half the more likely you are to win free kicks and penalties. Conversely the more you defend the less likely you are to get such decisions. Logical, right?

There's also a media agenda present to an extent, imo. The media are well aware of the hatred that exists for Man United and so feed off this with their headlines. If a match is played and United have 3 potential penalty shouts turned down and then one given, but then the other team have one penalty shout not given - you can guarantee the emphasis will be on the one decision going against the opposing team rather than the others going against United. Most people feed of this information and so it's no surprise the perception of United always getting the decisions and never having any go against them is widepsread. I don't subscribe to that view at all.

I'm not saying United never get the rub of the green because they have, plenty of times. As a big club they have an advantage over smaller clubs in some decision making, as is pretty much accepted across the board. What I don't believe is that they have had any more of an advantage than the other big teams, and that any statistical advantages they've had purely come down to their attack-minded approach over the years combined with the fear teams feel when facing them. No other team in the Premiership over the past twenty years has come close to exerting the type of fear United impose upon the opposition on a regular basis. Moyes is swiftly removing that fear with his awful management and that's great to see, but I think people do Ferguson a disservice when they talk about him bribing refs and such nonsense. The man was a born winner, plain and simple. An arse, no doubt, but then most winners are.

[Jimmy612]

I remember it all very well, thanks. But if you're going to take a condescending tone like that then forget it.

Scholes scoring in the Carling Cup 2nd leg at Ewood - blatant hand ball to bring it down.

Rooney Horror tackle in a semi-final first leg, again at Ewood - no punishment.

Pedersen blatantly brought down at OT when we were beaten 2-1 under Allardyce.

EDIT: Sorry DE i meant to quote Tyrone but i picked up your response to him instead.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Stevie Wonder could tell you that United get favourable refereeing decisions

[perthblue02]

Stevie Wonder could tell you that United get favourable refereeing decisions

I just called to say, they favour Man U?

[RevidgeBlue]

You're right of course Salgado and this has has been done to death in the past.

Former referee Graham Poll has discussed this at some length and said that in his view when refs aren't 100% sure about a decision they'll subconsciously waver in favour of the "big" Club because of the adverse coverage and exposure a wrong decision against a bigger Club would receive.

I prefer to think of it as cheating.

[Majiball]

I just called to say, they favour Man U?

that's enough of the kean jokes or I'll get me gk gloves out!

[Amo]

Man. Utd unconvincing once again but managed to scab a 1-0 win over Shaktar. Old Trafford was like a morgue until Jones' winner. MUTV *cough* ITV did their best to send Utd fans to their beds thinking everything's hunky-dory again.

[DE.]

Shakhtar were absolutely pathetic in the second half, deserved to lose and go out of the competition. It was a cowardly last 45 minutes from them.

[thenodrog]

Strange DE..... given that they were on top in the first half and needed to win to qualify...... I wonder what the odds were on that at HT?