[Archived] Premier League Happenings

[Audax]

It seems a good number of the Champions League games have some bogus calls, I don't call it match-fixing, it just happens and maybe refs do prefer some teams but in this age, I think there is little match fixing at that level. A few years ago, Fiorentina got a bad bad deal, I'm unbiased looking at that one and I'd agree. I'm no fan of Chelsea but I think that happened to them too. All of the analysis is going on, MUFC didn't win and didn't win it straight out, really they should have coped with the bad break better, won it outright. Lots of factors and I would point out, people have said, especially in the Barclay's Premier League that they, MUFC have gotten breaks before, I would have of course, preferred to see them win really. Real Madrid is a good team too.

[M-K]

Always delightful to see Utd fans crying over ref decisions.

Why?

[Eddie]

All the teams left at this point are huge within their own leagues, benefit from decisions in their own leagues and ha their fair share of plastic supporters. It confuses me that people would rather see Real Madrid win when they are playing against a British side.

[Blue n White Rover]

I'd rather Real went through than United. I don't know any Madrid fans, but I know a lot of United fans who love to dish it out.

[koi]

Why?

Because they are some of the most arrogant, thick, one-eyed fans I come across on a daily basis and when the tables are turned they can't take it. Simple fact is, Ferguson should have made a sub straight after the sending off, he didn't, Jose did and changed the game. End of. Stop moaning and get on with it.

[Blue n White Rover]

2 European cups in 25 years. Ferguson is the greatest ever. Do me a favour.

[Eddie]

25 years? They weren't even allowed into Europe until 90-91

Also factor in European silverware with Aberdeen.

[Blue n White Rover]

25 years? They weren't even allowed into Europe until 90-91

Also factor in European silverware with Aberdeen.

How long did it take the great Jose to win 2 European Cups? Guardiola? Paisley won 3 in 6 years!

[Mike E]

didnt intend to hurt the player so never a red card, the real madrid player made a meal of it as usual

Show me where 'intent' is in the rules for 'serious foul play'? 'Intent' refers to handball and nothing else.

Careless = foul.

Reckless = yellow.

If the ref feels a yellow isn't enough, then he can give a red.

Regardless, these kinds of decisions happen every week throughout the leagues. And now that it's gone against ManUtd people are up in arms. Big club bias even from small club fans beggars belief!

[Amo]

Show me where 'intent' is in the rules for 'serious foul play'? 'Intent' refers to handball and nothing else.

Careless = foul.

Reckless = yellow.

If the ref feels a yellow isn't enough, then he can give a red.

Regardless, these kinds of decisions happen every week throughout the leagues. And now that it's gone against ManUtd people are up in arms. Big club bias even from small club fans beggars belief!

Thank you.

You can't go in studs up like that and expect to get away with it.

[M-K]

Because they are some of the most arrogant, thick, one-eyed fans I come across on a daily basis and when the tables are turned they can't take it.

Harsh!

Aren't we the guys who pay a bunch of Indian chicken farmers so we can sit in a half-empty stadium and boo Danny Murphy, while simultaneously moaning that we ought to be in the Premier League?

[DE.]

How long did it take the great Jose to win 2 European Cups? Guardiola? Paisley won 3 in 6 years!

Paisley managed in a completely different era. You can't compare modern football with Paisley's era, the game has changed immeasurably and winning a European competition has become much harder.

[Mike E]

So you can't compare Messi to the likes of Pele?

Imo, the 'era' argument is irrelevant. If those players/managers had the benefit of today's game, they'd be at the top. And tbf, the record does say 3 cups in 6 years for Paisley. That's awesome.

The thing I like with fergie is that he has CREATED (with many stars from the academy) 2 totally separate CL winning teams.

[Blue n White Rover]

Paisley managed in a completely different era. You can't compare modern football with Paisley's era, the game has changed immeasurably and winning a European competition has become much harder.

It was knockout competition format when Paisley won it 3 times. Much harder than the current group stages and then knock out. If a club lost a game back then, you were knocked out. The group stages now provide a safety net for these big clubs. Wasn't the case then so I would argue it makes the acheivement of Paisley even more remarkable.

[DE.]

So you can't compare Messi to the likes of Pele?

No, not really. Both incredible players in their respective generations, but that's about it. Pele played regularly against a much lower standard of player than messi does. It doesn't reduce his achievements or talent in any way, but it makes comparisons to modern records redundant imo.

[Eddie]

Comparing eras is always very difficult and is virtually impossible. Ferguson is the greatest manager of the modern era, how he compares to managers from the past is difficult to say. He has managed to dominate a league and regularly compete in Europe with the same club for over two decades. He has rebuilt his own side on several occasions and clearly sets the bar for any modern manager.

Is he the best ever? Who knows, but he's pretty damn great.

[Audax]

Brian Clough too, with what those 2 Champions League Titles and maybe could have had a 3rd with Derby County and sad to say, there really was a lot more corruption (?) probably back then, he thought Juventus were given favours in that match back then. And it's largely accepted AC Milan defeated Leeds with a dodgy referee in about '72/'73.

Pele 3 World Cups, Messi, zero world cups, successful when having a good part of the Spanish World Cup champion side supporting him. Of course, Pele had stellar support as well, Garrincha, others whose names I can't spell right off.

I can't compare players from one era to another, really, Bobby Moore on today's England team would surely do well I think.

[Tom]

I think Nani's reaction went against him as well, he clearly wasn't hurt but went down like he was shot and made him look guilty

I still think its a borderline decision either way and in no way worthy of the outrage, it wasn't alone though

Uniteds first goal RVP was an inch or so offside - borderline decision in uniteds favour

Nani goes in recklessly and gets a red - borderline decision in Reals favour

Rafael blocks a shot nearly on the line with his hand, no penalty or red card - borderline decision in uniteds favour

Evra appears to be impeded in the box but no penalty - borderline decision in Reals favour

[Mike E]

As I say, I reckon the comparison is valid. The greatest players can change the game on a whim. They have to be adaptable.

It's hypothetical ofc but I believe that if a player was dropped into another era, with that era's standards, methods, training etc, they'd be just as awesome.

As for the nani kerfuffle, TomM pretty much covers it imo.

[M-K]

Bobby Moore on today's England team would surely do well I think.

I'd pick him ahead of Martin Kelly, despite him being a corpse.

[DE.]

As I say, I reckon the comparison is valid. The greatest players can change the game on a whim. They have to be adaptable.

It's hypothetical ofc but I believe that if a player was dropped into another era, with that era's standards, methods, training etc, they'd be just as awesome.

It's terms of potential talent I absolutely agree. It doesn't change how good they might have been. However, their records are based on the game at the time, not the game now. Things were vastly different when Pele was playing and when Paisley was managing. In terms of tactics, player fitness, coaching... even stuff like ProZone, this has all made the modern game much faster and more difficult to be successful in. As a result attempting to compare records from past eras to now seems somewhat pointless as the game has evolved to the point where comparisons become weak at best.

It was knockout competition format when Paisley won it 3 times. Much harder than the current group stages and then knock out. If a club lost a game back then, you were knocked out. The group stages now provide a safety net for these big clubs. Wasn't the case then so I would argue it makes the acheivement of Paisley even more remarkable.

No, the group stage weeds out most of the weaker teams so you're left with only the difficult ones in the knock-out rounds. In Paisley's era you had 5 rounds, which is one round less than the current format. In the first round of the 77/78 Euro Cups Liverpool were given a Bye so they played the same amount of knockout rounds as the modern era. Difference is they played the likes of the mighty Dynamo Dresden as opposed to Real Madrid, Juventus, Barcelona, Shaktar, etc etc.

No way was it harder.

[Audax]

But a definite difference from nowadays and back when Paisley managed is when you had a Liverpool or Nottingham Forest, probably Celtic too when they won the Champions League, those players were from the Home Nations, look at Martin O'Neill, he played for the Nottingham clubs that won the Champions League.

And maybe it means better quality having people from all over the world playing for a team but it is a big difference and the older way was good too.

That's one thing about the Spanish Teams still, Real Madrid had quite a few foreigners but a lot of those teams are basically Spanish.

[thenodrog]

He's not there to deliver a good game for the neutral. He's there to enforce the rules. Nani's foot was high, studs-up and potentially injurious. It was foul play and by the letter of the law he had to go.

So how come the overhead kick has not been outlawed. Never mind elbows and showing studs (whatever that means) the o/head kick in a crowded pen area is the most dangerous move in football.

City and United are not the same team. United were in total control, Mourinho admitted as much.

Ingratiating himself o the plastics is just a pre curser for his tilt at the MU job. He might have fooled you but he didn't fool me.

A good referee would want to deliver a good game and not be the centre of attention or the talking point. One again we have a match in which an attention-seeking referee has become the focus instead of a match between two of the best sides in the world.

Bloody refs always seem to favour the biggest club though don't they and this ones stayed true to form! First time the shoes been on the other foot for MU and their fans for quite some time.

[Amo]

So how come the overhead kick has not been outlawed. Never mind elbows and showing studs (whatever that means) the o/head kick in a crowded pen area is the most dangerous move in football.

Already covered that in the other thread.

What Nani did was one of the most dangerous things you can do on the pitch, going studs-up with your full weight behind you. That's not comparable to a standing overhead kick. Mistimed overhead kicks *are* penalized but very rarely does one commit serious foul conduct.

[thenodrog]

Thank you.

You can't go in studs up like that and expect to get away with it.

He was obviously trying to take the ball down and get it under control. Collisions happen in football and especially at the speed of the top teams. There was no kicking action and no aggression so please explain how he could have kept his studs down? An ankle is not a universal joint. If anybody could have avoided it it would have been the Real player cos he had a full on view of both the ball and Nani . Truth is that both players would have been expected by manager, teammates and supporters to go for the ball. No one was even hurt ffs.

Paisley managed in a completely different era. You can't compare modern football with Paisley's era, the game has changed immeasurably and winning a European competition has become much harder.

Rubbish! The European Cup as it was called in those days was a straight knock out competition in which only Champions could compete. By the same rules now MU would not even have qualified for the competition as they would not have done when they won it in Barcelona! So how you can say beggars belief! Todays flaky version begins as a league format simply to give the richer clubs the best chance of reaching the latter stages.