[Archived] Premier League Happenings

[thenodrog]

It's been said many times before but you have always ignored it. "Town" clubs can be very successful in the top flight if they are managed properly with good people. Rovers did it under the Trust with very little money over the past 10 years, the likes of Bolton, Southampton, Derby, Forest and Coventry have done it in the past and Norwich and Swansea are doing it now. And I know they are "cities" but their football clubs are no bigger in size than Rovers.

As I said, your defeatist small-town attitude is one reason Rovers were stuck in the doldrums for nearly 30 years post the 1966 relegation.

Grief!! You are making up your own rules! With the exception of Bolton which has a much bigger population than Blackburn and also part of Greater Manchester all those clubs are not town clubs they are city clubs and all those cities have much bigger populations and more important larger 'hinterlands' than BRFC.

[Rover_Shaun]

Not premiership but worth a mention

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22337363

[thenodrog]

West Brom and Middlesbrough.

OK Point taken ..... So swap them with 2 of Bradford, Stoke and Hull then.

[thenodrog]

For me, only 10 teams have spent more time in the top flight than us so that's our level.

Too simplistic. Since the max wage was abolished the only time that we have spent in the top div was courtesy of one man, Jack Walker. Without his financial input your figures would not be half as convincing and certainly not relevent.

Reaching and staying in the top flight depends on the quality of the people in charge. Money is important but it's not everything. QPR are loaded and have gone down while ManU chucked money at it for 26 years before landing the title in 1993 when of course they had the right manager in charge.

Football clubs, like businesses and governments, are only as good as the people who work for them. Show me a failing business and it is likley the management have made a series of mistakes. Football club are no different, as our failing owners have demonstrated.

If there were 20 Alex Fergusons 3 would still get relegated......... Next

[chris_h]

Yes, yes I think we get it now. We have no place in the top flight unless it is part of Lancashire Utd.

Stop striving, stop hoping, accept your fate.

[thenodrog]

By George I think he's got it!

[jim mk2]

If there were 20 Alex Fergusons 3 would still get relegated......... Next

Childish response. Try again.

[chris_h]

By George I think he's got it!

I would suggest that you confine your sporting interests and opinions to golf but I think you enjoy killing everybody else's buzz on here too much.

[Mike E]

Childish response. Try again.

To be fair, he does touch on a reasonable point. The fact is if EVERYTHING was equal (for the sake of argument), where would 'our place' be, given that relegations and promotions still have to take place? I mean in term of points, GD etc.

[thenodrog]

Childish response. Try again.

Thats no retort. You are out of your depth when you resort to such glib comment.

Basically we have had our day in the sun. It's gone, but still many people refuse to accept it.

[LeChuck]

Thats no retort. You are out of your depth when you resort to such glib comment.

Basically we have had our day in the sun. It's gone, but still many people refuse to accept it.

You still haven't given me a list of 20 clubs better equiped to stay in the PL on their current resources.

[M-K]

Basically we have had our day in the sun. It's gone, but still many people refuse to accept it.

If there's a positive to be taken from this, it's that I might actually start to enjoy watching England again.

The last time I cared about England was the 1990 World Cup. Since then I just want them to fail every time - ideally not to qualify at all - and it's largely because Blackburn were promoted. For me those players were once seldom-seen superstars from a different football world, but when they became Blackburn's regular opponents I began to see them for the overpaid, overrated, diving, cheating, despicable turds that they are.

I suppose football has such a media presence now that it would be impossible not to know all about the charming characters in our national team, but I hope that one day I could at least watch an England match and not hate every single member of the squad.

[DE.]

I don't think there are very many people who haven't accepted that we've had our day in the sun, to be fair. There's a grim resignation in most fans I speak to that there's a long and fairly dark road ahead for the club, thanks to the destruction wreaked upon it by the Raos and others who are yet to be revealed.

What most people struggle to accept is that it was inevitable this would happen and that things are taking their natural course. Whilst we never had any guarantee of staying up year-on-year, it's preposterous to suggest that Blackburn Rovers as it existed pre-Venky's could not have competed in the Premier League this season or avoided relegation last season. We had an excellent manager who was extremely skilled at keeping teams up in the highest league, we had a settled if not spectacular squad, and whilst funding was limited we always got by without splashing much cash. There's no reason to assume that lack of funding alone would have sent the club down in the immediate future. I certainly think we could have competed with and finished above the likes of QPR, Reading, Villa, Sunderland, Norwich, Newcastle... well, anyone outside the top 9/10 or so.

The fact is, Venky's have torn the club apart and destroyed everything that was built to keep the club stable and secure. Without their intervention there's every chance we'd still be a Premier League club at this point in time. In the long-term, if the game continues to become saturated with money, we may have found the task too much to take on, but I see no reason to assume we would have dropped out of the Premier League within the next five years or so under the previous management had things stayed largely the same with Williams and Finn at the helm and Allardyce or a similarly pragmatic manager in the dugout.

[Guest Norbert]

You have a point M-K. Whenever England play, the national flags never have teams like Chelsea or Man Utd written across them, but Oldham, Bradford or Grimsby It is as if the Premier League elite live in it's own bubble, and the rest of English football turn up to watch England..

[thenodrog]

I don't think there are very many people who haven't accepted that we've had our day in the sun, to be fair. There's a grim resignation in most fans I speak to that there's a long and fairly dark road ahead for the club, thanks to the destruction wreaked upon it by the Raos and others who are yet to be revealed.

What most people struggle to accept is that it was inevitable this would happen and that things are taking their natural course. Whilst we never had any guarantee of staying up year-on-year, it's preposterous to suggest that Blackburn Rovers as it existed pre-Venky's could not have competed in the Premier League this season or avoided relegation last season. We had an excellent manager who was extremely skilled at keeping teams up in the highest league, we had a settled if not spectacular squad, and whilst funding was limited we always got by without splashing much cash. There's no reason to assume that lack of funding alone would have sent the club down in the immediate future. I certainly think we could have competed with and finished above the likes of QPR, Reading, Villa, Sunderland, Norwich, Newcastle... well, anyone outside the top 9/10 or so.

The fact is, Venky's have torn the club apart and destroyed everything that was built to keep the club stable and secure. Without their intervention there's every chance we'd still be a Premier League club at this point in time. In the long-term, if the game continues to become saturated with money, we may have found the task too much to take on, but I see no reason to assume we would have dropped out of the Premier League within the next five years or so under the previous management had things stayed largely the same with Williams and Finn at the helm and Allardyce or a similarly pragmatic manager in the dugout.

Quite so..... however sharing an annual battle against relegation with no hope of winning anything with 2/3rds of the Premier League was becoming less than appealing.

You still haven't given me a list of 20 clubs better equiped to stay in the PL on their current resources.

I thought somebody else had? Anyway haven't you changed your criteria?

Better suited clubs are any clubs with bigger crowds and even those with similar crowds who will pay the going rate for Prem football and similar for corporate hospitality. I'm sure it hasn't escaped your notice that we can only fill our ground at heavily discounted ticket prices. 20k on Ewood is equivalent in revenue to prob 12-14k anywhere else once refreshments, prog sales, lottery stuff etc are taken into account.

[LeChuck]

I thought somebody else had? Furthermore I don't really understand the criteria that you have put in place.

Yeah...but you tend to think differently to most.

No criteria other than whatever criteria you're using to say we are sinking to our natural level.

I was actually asking you to do it because I thought you might be pleasantly surprised how easy it is to justify Rovers in a top 20 (i.e. PL) list. I hadn't expected it when I replied to a similar discussion a while back.

[DE.]

Quite so..... however sharing an annual battle against relegation with no hope of winning anything with 2/3rds of the Premier League was becoming less than appealing.

Agreed that the chances of winning the title for most clubs is long gone (I noticed Sky now have a "BATTLE FOR 4TH" Super Sunday graphic ) but under Allardyce we were clawing our way up the league. We finished 10th in his last season with us and were around there before he got the boot. No reason to think with time he couldn't have at least got us up into the top half and potentially entering European competition, much like Hughes did only a short time beforehand.

[jim mk2]

To

If there were 20 Alex Fergusons 3 would still get relegated......... Next

You posted a silly answer because you don't have any arguments. Try again.

Yes, yes I think we get it now. We have no place in the top flight unless it is part of Lancashire Utd.

Stop striving, stop hoping, accept your fate.

Typical of a small-town mentality I'm afraid. Thankfully not everyone thinks the same.

[Amo]

But Droggy does have a point. It's all well and good saying we were an established PL club for 'x' amount of years, but the only reason we were able to get there in the first place was due to Uncle Jack. We were able to sustain that through exceedingly shrewd management (as Jim referenced) but we were only ever one bad decision away from dropping like a stone (Hodgson, Kidd, Ince, Kean...). Without our beloved benefactor, it is more than likely Rovers would still be a lower-league side with lower-league facilities. I guess it's possible that we'd have a one-off season like our six-fingered neighbours and flirt with the top-flight but that's all hypothetical and doesn't change the fact.

[jim mk2]

But Droggy does have a point. It's all well and good saying we were an established PL club for 'x' amount of years, but the only reason we were able to get there in the first place was due to Uncle Jack. We were able to sustain that through exceedingly shrewd management (as Jim referenced) but we were only ever one bad decision away from dropping like a stone (Hodgson, Kidd, Ince, Kean...). Without our beloved benefactor, it is more than likely Rovers would still be a lower-league side with lower-league facilities. I guess it's possible that we'd have a one-off season like our six-fingered neighbours and flirt with the top-flight but that's all hypothetical and doesn't change the fact.

Southampton, Norwich, Swansea, Wigan and others don't have a great deal of money but they do have excellent management on and off the pitch. For clubs like those and Rovers I agree it is precarious because one bad decision can lead to relegation and it is hard to sustain in the long term because managers come and go but the point is you can chuck as much money as you like at it but without good people you won't achieve anything, eg QPR. Rovers have showed it is possible to be an established top league team and do more than have a lucky one-off season in the top flight like Burnley. In some ways we are more fortunate than others because we do have owners with money who are willing to splash out £8m on one player - all they need to do (as has been said many times before) is get some competent people in to run the whole show, take a back seat and let them get on with it.

[CapeTownRover]

our mentality is all wrong imho. were we in the PL just to make up the numbers, or was there more to it than just that? spurs as an example are huffing and puffing, up there, but can you see them winning anything? same applies to Everton, where they do well, good management team, but they will not win anything. we should be proud of our run in the PL, and not look at it now, and pretend that it only happened because of uncle Jacks money. our achievements were amazing, our performances were very good, but we were proud of the club at the end of the day.

[thenodrog]

Southampton, Norwich, Swansea, Wigan and others don't have a great deal of money but they do have excellent management on and off the pitch. For clubs like those and Rovers I agree it is precarious because one bad decision can lead to relegation and it is hard to sustain in the long term because managers come and go but the point is you can chuck as much money as you like at it but without good people you won't achieve anything, eg QPR. Rovers have showed it is possible to be an established top league team and do more than have a lucky one-off season in the top flight like Burnley. In some ways we are more fortunate than others because we do have owners with money who are willing to splash out £8m on one player - all they need to do (as has been said many times before) is get some competent people in to run the whole show, take a back seat and let them get on with it.

btw Even you must realise that Wigan have Whelans financial backing and the others are two minute wonders / yo yo clubs up to now. All of them are destined to the torture of an annual relegation fight from the first day of the season.

[Amo]

our mentality is all wrong imho. were we in the PL just to make up the numbers, or was there more to it than just that? spurs as an example are huffing and puffing, up there, but can you see them winning anything? same applies to Everton, where they do well, good management team, but they will not win anything. we should be proud of our run in the PL, and not look at it now, and pretend that it only happened because of uncle Jacks money. our achievements were amazing, our performances were very good, but we were proud of the club at the end of the day.

I don't think anyone's trying to downplay our achievements or question our sense of pride, but you can't deny that without Jack's millions, chances are this club would never have become an established PL club to start with? Without a wealthy backer ploughing his fortune into the club, Rovers natural position on the footballing food chain is somewhere in the lower leagues. I could be wrong, but I believe that's what Drog is getting at.

[thenodrog]

Definitely so. I'm truly suprised to learn that there are some people out there who think our recent signings of international players, our time in the Prem and Europe, our state of the art ground and the superb facilities at Brockhall ..... just happened.

[jim mk2]

I don't think anyone's trying to downplay our achievements or question our sense of pride, but you can't deny that without Jack's millions, chances are this club would never have become an established PL club to start with? Without a wealthy backer ploughing his fortune into the club, Rovers natural position on the footballing food chain is somewhere in the lower leagues. I could be wrong, but I believe that's what Drog is getting at.

We have proved for 10 years that with very little money it is possible to sustain a top club club in this town with good people running the club. There is no such thing as a "natural position on the footballing chain" - you are adopting the same mentality as the media when they questioned our right to be challenging for honours. It's demeaning, it's defeatist and it's insulting.