[Archived] Premier League Happenings

[Baz]

I think today's news is tremendous for the families, but in fact very little of it is actually new. It's a sad fact that only an enforced debate in parliment brought about by a Internet campaign finally forced the government to hold a debate they had refused on several occassions, and which has enabled the truth to publically come out on this. Successive governments have ignored the families, despite good evidence that this needed further investigation. The government of the day also has to take a lot of the blame too, although a lot of the transcripts of the meetings between the police and the government were 'lost'. The major cover up by both the police and ambulance authorities, who both conspired to blame fans stinks of this being co-ordinated at a higher level too. The fact that the only CCTV footage available that wasn't 'lost' was from a camera the police were told was broken.

As for compensation SIAH, the least these people deserve is the cost of the legal fees they have had to bear personally, as they were denied access to legal aid. I doubt any really want to become millionaires over this.

The HJC is trying to raise funds for a memorial in the centre of Liverpool, if anyone would like to contribute the details are on the linked page below.

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/hillsborough-justice-campaign-monument-appeal

Thanks Pedro. I must say I'm confused now. Can you tell me who crushed the victims then..... before you hand your trophy over?

You really do disgust me sometimes Theno.

[Paul]

Thanks Pedro. I must say I'm confused now. Can you tell me who crushed the victims then..... before you hand your trophy over?

Disgusting

Two days ago you stated bevied up ticketless Liverpool fans caused the disaster. Just be quiet or have the decency to acknowledge what the country knew and has now been proven. The Liverpool fans were not to blame.

[david_daft]

Thanks Pedro. I must say I'm confused now. Can you tell me who crushed the victims then..... before you hand your trophy over?

I think you need to wind your neck in, that is honestly the calmest, most polite way I can think of saying it, Gorden (atm)

I have spent much of today veering between anger, outrage, shock and empathy.

You are not helping.

[AggyBlue]

Some of the images and stories I have read compare with the stuff from Helmand, Ypres, etc.

Bit OTT there ozzy

[jim mk2]

Thanks Pedro. I must say I'm confused now. Can you tell me who crushed the victims then..... before you hand your trophy over?

Disgraceful comment but not untypical of this prejudiced, ignorant poster.

Typically immature comment in the extreme. Silly even.

Who is looking immature and silly now after your remarks today ?

[jim mk2]

I think today's news is tremendous for the families, but in fact very little of it is actually new.

The revelation that more than 40 people might have been saved after the coroner's 3.15pm cut-off time is new and a terrible admission by the authorities.

Today's report is vindication for the familes of all those who died after 23 agonising years in which they have had to battle against people like thenodrog for the truth finally to come out.

I hope they do not let it rest now and that senior policemen and others responsible for this shameful episode are brought before the courts.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

The revelation that more than 40 people might have been saved after the coroner's 3.15pm cut-off time is new and a terrible admission by the authorities.

Today's report is vindication for the familes of all those who died after 23 agonising years in which they have had to battle against people like thenodrog for the truth finally to come out.

I hope they do not let it rest now and that senior policemen and others responsible for this shameful episode are brought before the courts.

Hear hear. Especially the last sentence.

[SouthAussieRover]

Mr controversy at it again.

At last there seems to be the chance of justice for the families involved.

[thenodrog]

Gordon. You may feel you are right - or you may simply be trying to save face. But you are on to a loser with this line.

Put the shovel down. Please.

You want my opinion Stuart then read the previous post to the one you quoted. The one you quoted was simply in retort to an insult and a wind up from Pedro.

[thenodrog]

........ Just be quiet or have the decency to acknowledge what the country knew and has now been proven. The Liverpool fans were not to blame.

Today's report is vindication for the familes of all those who died after 23 agonising years in which they have had to battle against people like thenodrog for the truth finally to come out.

Like the vast majority of the country it turns out that I was duped from numerous accepted respected and reliable sources into believing the official line. The police, the FA, the Home office, the media and press both popular and the broadsheets have largely presented a unified front for a generation. Not only that but I am without a doubt guilty of pre-judging this issue based on my experience of football crowds over more years than I care to remember. Many on here will not remember the football violence of the 70's and 80's, the staged and organised violence perpetrated by a violent but significant number, the pitch invasions, the football special trains wrecked by hooligans, the orchestrated 'meets', the various 'firms' ... inter city firm, the headhunters, F Troop, Suicide squad et al. Notoriety achieved by the likes of Leeds fans, NUFC, Sheff Utd, Tottenham, both Glasgow clubs etc all intent on outdoing each other in fact just about every club had their seemingly uncontrollable hooligan element. I rem numerous fan deaths over the years...from a Millwall fan stabbed to death in Liverpool (FA Cup tie with Everton) way back in the early 70's, a Forest fan killed at Burnley. BRFC fans too were implicated in a death at Carlisle. We all rail against body searches but is it any wonder when stabbing's, bottlings, 'stripings' became frequent whilst random attacks on crowds with the likes of bricks, ball bearings/catapults, and even darts were reported regularly. We ourselves have seen situations at Ewood involving the likes of LUFC fans and relatively recently issues with NUFC, Man City and Celtic where the Police have opened the gates and allowed many ticketless fans unofficial entry into the Ewood Park 'pen' rather than attempt to prevent incidents and violence in the surrounding areas. The events at Heysal appear to have been forgotten this week but maybe the 'dog' in question was given or rather 'earned' it's bad name way back then?

Seems there were a lot of people on here trapping up now who knew the truth all the time. This despite a number of incorrect verdicts, despite the numerous inquests, despite inquiry after inquiry, despite police statement after police statement, despite judicial reviews under different governments. How they knew in the face of such apparently respected and informed opinion I've no idea but I'd like to congratulate them all.

[SouthAussieRover]

Theno, the Taylor report into the disaste criticised the police..

Go and read it and digest please.

Then follow it up with reading the latest inquiry...and youll find the answers.

I think the legal system let down the families.

[Sverre]

I'm in London this weekend.

Is it easy to buy tickets to one of the games on match day(Saturday) or tomorrow at one of their stores in London? Fulham - West brom or Arsenal - Southampton? Or are the games sold out already?

cheers

[david_daft]

Seems there were a lot of people on here trapping up now who knew the truth all the time. This despite a number of incorrect verdicts, despite the numerous inquests, despite inquiry after inquiry, despite police statement after police statement, despite judicial reviews under different governments. How they knew in the face of such apparently respected and informed opinion I've no idea but I'd like to congratulate them all.

And yet you still posted this just before 9pm last night;

Thanks Pedro. I must say I'm confused now. Can you tell me who crushed the victims then..... before you hand your trophy over?

[cn174]

I'm in London this weekend.

Is it easy to buy tickets to one of the games on match day(Saturday) or tomorrow at one of their stores in London? Fulham - West brom or Arsenal - Southampton? Or are the games sold out already?

cheers

Fulham would be the easiest, check their website and ticketmaster. They sometimes have a buy one get one free offer.

[jim mk2]

Apart from the revelation that 40 people might have survived if the emergency services had been allowed to enter the ground, and that the coroner arbitrarily decided (or was instructed) to state that no one could have survived after 3.15pm, the most damning evidence to emerge yesterday was that more than 160 police statements were doctored or amended to show Liverpool supporters in a bad light. Questions have to be asked how or why these doctored statements managed to be kept secret for 23 years and who was responsible for keeping them secret. The extent of the Hillsborough cover-ups probably goes to the top of the police force and probably government too but alot of people have to answer for their actions in a court of law.

[47er]

Like the vast majority of the country it turns out that I was duped from numerous accepted respected and reliable sources into believing the official line. The police, the FA, the Home office, the media and press both popular and the broadsheets have largely presented a unified front for a generation. Not only that but I am without a doubt guilty of pre-judging this issue based on my experience of football crowds over more years than I care to remember. Many on here will not remember the football violence of the 70's and 80's, the staged and organised violence perpetrated by a violent but significant number, the pitch invasions, the football special trains wrecked by hooligans, the orchestrated 'meets', the various 'firms' ... inter city firm, the headhunters, F Troop, Suicide squad et al. Notoriety achieved by the likes of Leeds fans, NUFC, Sheff Utd, Tottenham, both Glasgow clubs etc all intent on outdoing each other in fact just about every club had their seemingly uncontrollable hooligan element. I rem numerous fan deaths over the years...from a Millwall fan stabbed to death in Liverpool (FA Cup tie with Everton) way back in the early 70's, a Forest fan killed at Burnley. BRFC fans too were implicated in a death at Carlisle. We all rail against body searches but is it any wonder when stabbing's, bottlings, 'stripings' became frequent whilst random attacks on crowds with the likes of bricks, ball bearings/catapults, and even darts were reported regularly. We ourselves have seen situations at Ewood involving the likes of LUFC fans and relatively recently issues with NUFC, Man City and Celtic where the Police have opened the gates and allowed many ticketless fans unofficial entry into the Ewood Park 'pen' rather than attempt to prevent incidents and violence in the surrounding areas. The events at Heysal appear to have been forgotten this week but maybe the 'dog' in question was given or rather 'earned' it's bad name way back then?

Seems there were a lot of people on here trapping up now who knew the truth all the time. This despite a number of incorrect verdicts, despite the numerous inquests, despite inquiry after inquiry, despite police statement after police statement, despite judicial reviews under different governments. How they knew in the face of such apparently respected and informed opinion I've no idea but I'd like to congratulate them all.

Bit desperate here I think Theno. You swallowed the official version hook, line and sinker. Despite your assertions, most people did not.

It's true that belief in a police cover-up grew into certainty over time but you are literally years behind on this one.

[Doug]

Bit desperate here I think Theno. You swallowed the official version hook, line and sinker. Despite your assertions, most people did not.

It's true that belief in a police cover-up grew into certainty over time but you are literally years behind on this one.

My experience of peoples versions of this is different to yours 47er. A great number believed the official line as their experience of football fans in the 'old days' lent them to believe fans were capable of almost anything. I too have witnessed some very frightening times following Rovers, grounds where there has been little or no segregation, being crushed due to fans trying to get away from other fans etc. I'm sure you are of an age that you can try to understand where these people are coming from.

This tragic incident has led to huge improvements in safety and segregation, its just so sad it took such an awful event to drive these improvements through.

[47er]

My experience of peoples versions of this is different to yours 47er. A great number believed the official line as their experience of football fans in the 'old days' lent them to believe fans were capable of almost anything. I too have witnessed some very frightening times following Rovers, grounds where there has been little or no segregation, being crushed due to fans trying to get away from other fans etc. I'm sure you are of an age that you can try to understand where these people are coming from.

This tragic incident has led to huge improvements in safety and segregation, its just so sad it took such an awful event to drive these improvements through.

I'm a Guardian reader. Believe me, it helps!

[Baz]

Like the vast majority of the country it turns out that I was duped from numerous accepted respected and reliable sources into believing the official line. The police, the FA, the Home office, the media and press both popular and the broadsheets have largely presented a unified front for a generation. Not only that but I am without a doubt guilty of pre-judging this issue based on my experience of football crowds over more years than I care to remember. Many on here will not remember the football violence of the 70's and 80's, the staged and organised violence perpetrated by a violent but significant number, the pitch invasions, the football special trains wrecked by hooligans, the orchestrated 'meets', the various 'firms' ... inter city firm, the headhunters, F Troop, Suicide squad et al. Notoriety achieved by the likes of Leeds fans, NUFC, Sheff Utd, Tottenham, both Glasgow clubs etc all intent on outdoing each other in fact just about every club had their seemingly uncontrollable hooligan element. I rem numerous fan deaths over the years...from a Millwall fan stabbed to death in Liverpool (FA Cup tie with Everton) way back in the early 70's, a Forest fan killed at Burnley. BRFC fans too were implicated in a death at Carlisle. We all rail against body searches but is it any wonder when stabbing's, bottlings, 'stripings' became frequent whilst random attacks on crowds with the likes of bricks, ball bearings/catapults, and even darts were reported regularly. We ourselves have seen situations at Ewood involving the likes of LUFC fans and relatively recently issues with NUFC, Man City and Celtic where the Police have opened the gates and allowed many ticketless fans unofficial entry into the Ewood Park 'pen' rather than attempt to prevent incidents and violence in the surrounding areas. The events at Heysal appear to have been forgotten this week but maybe the 'dog' in question was given or rather 'earned' it's bad name way back then?

Seems there were a lot of people on here trapping up now who knew the truth all the time. This despite a number of incorrect verdicts, despite the numerous inquests, despite inquiry after inquiry, despite police statement after police statement, despite judicial reviews under different governments. How they knew in the face of such apparently respected and informed opinion I've no idea but I'd like to congratulate them all.

I don't blame you for swallowing the lies spread, however the details (including the revelation about the people who could have survived after 3:15) arent new, it's just the first time they have been officially recognised. If it was a joke to Pedro, then given the topic I expect you'll be retracting it then?

I think the number of police statements altered is new, but not that there was evidence of this previously.

The Taylor report as SAR indicated did chiefly lay the blame at the senior officers, this latest inquest shows that that inquiry was both misled by the authorities and also misguided in not looking to deep into the evidence, the 3:15 cut-off being a ridiculous stopping point as an example. Id also question your united media front on this too, I think there was far more media saying the fans were blameless, than those that reported the lies as fact, at least since the Taylor inquiry.

I started on Ewood as a kid in the mid 80's and missed the biggest hooligan events surrounding our club, but saw enough on tv elsewhere, and enough evidence at away games to know there was a big issue. However, the response of the police to this incident shows that they beleived everyone was a hooligan, the same attitude of the government of the day. The day after Hillsborough Thatcher went to speak to the police involved, but only sent her commiserations to the families via TV statements. Whatever the past of the Liverpool fans though, it was no excuse to treat them in the way they did.

[Nobert]

On a minor note, I hope the report finally torpedoes the career of that arrogant, odious turd Kelvin MacKenzie.

[DE.]

I imagine MacKenzie has a very rough few years ahead of him. And rightly so.

[jim mk2]

The day after Hillsborough Thatcher went to speak to the police involved, but only sent her commiserations to the families via TV statements.

Jack Straw alluded to this today - and was roundly condemned by the Tories of course. But Jack Straw is right. The police in the 1980s were in Thatcher's pocket after she gave them huge pay rises as a thank you for their part in defeating the miners strike. Police felt they were untouchable as the knew that whatever they did - even altering more than 160 statements after Hillsborough - that they would have the backing of the government. It wouldn't surprise me if Thatcher congratulated the police for a job well done. As for Liverpool it never votes Tory so why should she care ?

[thenodrog]

And yet you still posted this just before 9pm last night;

Thanks Pedro. I must say I'm confused now. Can you tell me who crushed the victims then..... before you hand your trophy over?

SFW?

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Jack Straw alluded to this today - and was roundly condemned by the Tories of course. But Jack Straw is right. The police in the 1980s were in Thatcher's pocket after she gave them huge pay rises as a thank you for their part in defeating the miners strike. Police felt they were untouchable as the knew that whatever they did - even altering more than 160 statements after Hillsborough - that they would have the backing of the government. It wouldn't surprise me if Thatcher congratulated the police for a job well done. As for Liverpool it never votes Tory so why should she care ?

I either read on here or somewhere else that Thatcher went to meet the top policeman but didn't speak to the families directly......she can burn in hell....sorry just noticed it's the thing you responded to...she's a despicable woman.

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/the-unjust-policies-that-led-to-hillsborough-cameron-comes-clean-on-thatchers-britain/

Article on Hillsborough that mentions Thatcher.

[thenodrog]

I either read on here or somewhere else that Thatcher went to meet the top policeman but didn't speak to the families directly......she can burn in hell....sorry just noticed it's the thing you responded to...she's a despicable woman.

http://www.sabotaget...tchers-britain/

Article on Hillsborough that mentions Thatcher.

Rather a political bias BUT to all those that don't remember or aren't old enough to remember the mood of the nation and times that football was going through did cast English football supporters in a terrible light. The nation really was sickened by the events quoted from that article below along and with very many more......

"The year after Orgreave, Millwall fans rioted at Luton. There was a major disturbance at the Birmingham v Leeds match at St. Andrews. The Heysel Stadium tragedy occurred. The government initiated a debate about I.D cards and the return of the Short, Sharp Shock (literally; there was brief support for electrified fences at football matches.) Football supporters were demonised. We were only a year away from Italia 90,"

After the glorious years when English club football ruled supreme in Europe we'd had all our teams banned from European competition for 3 years because of mindless hooliganism initially but culminating in the dramatically televised horrors of the appalling incidents in Heyshel Stadium. Something had to be done of that there was no doubt.

Very few references currently to the violence and hooliganism that followed England in every major tournament we played in in those times. Italia 90 was coming up fast with many opinions favouring England to be banned for fear of the consequences of fan violence. It was a terrible time to support football and if the government did indeed adopt a hard line approach it was totally justified and dare I say supported by the vast majority of the population.

Those young enough to only remember the Premier League can have no concept of what went before.