[Archived] GAME THREAD–Leeds United v Blackburn Rovers (away)12/13

[RibbleValleyRover]

So what's the consensus view on this recurring problem that we sit too deep especially when we get a lead or in the second half? Is it down to the players or the manager? I think it's down to the manager. The plan appears to be that we let the opposition press forward so we can try and hit them on the counter. The problem is that we are so badly organised defensively that we can't withstand the pressure and we capitulate.

[thenodrog]

I've been hugely critical of Kean but I honestly thought that he didn't do much wrong today. The side was well set up and played some excellent football in the first half. On another day the referee would have given a foul against Robinson for the first goal and their second was the result of an obvious foul on Givet. Sometimes the opposition simply raise their game and outplay you for a time and I thought that is what happened today. Leeds suddenly stopped giving us time and space in which to play and made it a battle. One or two of the Rovers players will have to toughen up and, of course, Murphy and Gomes tend to tire during the second half. I would have happily settled for a point at the start and was more than happy with it after going behind. The loss of Dann and the injury to Givet was a blow as Hanley looked very shakey when he came on. Whilst I'm no fan of the manager the fact remains that we have eight points from four games and if we continue to average two points a game over the course of a season that will usually result in automatic promotion. Of course, there is no guarantee that we will achieve that but, then again, I didn't expect us to get eight points from these four games. It was noticeable that there were far fewer chants of "Kean Out" today, I assume because everyone was caught up in a cracking game of football.

Usual stuff from a team managed by Neil warnock. Sounds like it might have been a good game for N'Zonzi to figure in? Oh well.

This is not the Prem, Referees in general are more lenient and no doubt other Championship teams will have noted our susceptability to the rugged stuff.

[Ralfinho]

I'm not defending Kean here but I would put our lack of ability to defend a lead down to lack of fitness. We have lacked fitness since the pleb has been manager. Get the squad fit enough to last 90 mins and we will win a lot more matches

[thenodrog]

So what's the consensus view on this recurring problem that we sit too deep especially when we get a lead or in the second half? Is it down to the players or the manager? I think it's down to the manager. The plan appears to be that we let the opposition press forward so we can try and hit them on the counter. The problem is that we are so badly organised defensively that we can't withstand the pressure and we capitulate.

When the opposition have the ball a good team will have 11 defenders on the pitch. Is that the case with us?

[philipl]

If we had a Manager we wouldn't be in this awful division.

[rigger]

I'm not defending Kean here but I would put our lack of ability to defend a lead down to lack of fitness. We have lacked fitness since the pleb has been manager. Get the squad fit enough to last 90 mins and we will win a lot more matches

Agree 100%

When the opposition have the ball a good team will have 11 defenders on the pitch. Is that the case with us?

those defenders will also get into a position where they can do something constructive.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

So what's the consensus view on this recurring problem that we sit too deep especially when we get a lead or in the second half? Is it down to the players or the manager? I think it's down to the manager. The plan appears to be that we let the opposition press forward so we can try and hit them on the counter. The problem is that we are so badly organised defensively that we can't withstand the pressure and we capitulate.

Lack of fitness throughout the team, lack of mental toughness in too many positions, lack of a coherent settled team and method of playing, lack of enough experience of successfully playing out games from this position. lack of a team mentality that means you all defend and you all press the ball in an organised fashion. You name it we lack it. The thing about most pro footballers is they'll do just as much as the can get away with, be it in training, out on the pitch or on any club business. The exceptions are the top players, the Rooneys, the Roy Keanes, the Shearers etc. At the moment nobody's pushing our lot, Kean's too busy trying to keep pally with the ones he hasn't all ready alienated.

I don't think they actually conciously decide to ease off, and I don't think Kean tells them to ease off, they just don't step up a gear when the opposition do. I think they're not capable of raising their game when it's needed for the above reasons.

[philipl]

...and Kean does not have the mental agility to cope when the opposition manager changes tactics part way through the game.

[Gav]

I'm not defending Kean here but I would put our lack of ability to defend a lead down to lack of fitness. We have lacked fitness since the pleb has been manager. Get the squad fit enough to last 90 mins and we will win a lot more matches

Absolutely no excuse for a lack of fitness, and thats been apparent as you say since this idiot took over.

[m1st]

Lack of fitness throughout the team, lack of mental toughness in too many positions, lack of a coherent settled team and method of playing, lack of enough experience of successfully playing out games from this position. lack of a team mentality that means you all defend and you all press the ball in an organised fashion. You name it we lack it. The thing about most pro footballers is they'll do just as much as the can get away with, be it in training, out on the pitch or on any club business. The exceptions are the top players, the Rooneys, the Roy Keanes, the Shearers etc. At the moment nobody's pushing our lot, Kean's too busy trying to keep pally with the ones he hasn't all ready alienated.

I don't think they actually conciously decide to ease off, and I don't think Kean tells them to ease off, they just don't step up a gear when the opposition do. I think they're not capable of raising their game when it's needed for the above reasons.

+1, Tyrone.

You could also add having a playing system which seems unlikely to play to the players' strengths. As was shown by this post from earlier in this thread.

feedback from the west Yorkshire end.

At the end of the Town commentry and summary, they do a quick round up of the other teams in the Yorkshire so went over to the leeds game to get a summary. The Huddersfield pundit/commentator then asked about how Rhodes got on an it was an interesting response. He said... (paraphrased)...

" Steve Kean sets him up in a 4-5-1 where his job was to hold the ball up and pass it back to midfield. He said Rhodes did this well but that we all know that this is not the way to get the best out of him. That wasn't how he got all those goals at Huddersfield. He then said Rhodes did not have a shot on goal and that not to be putting him in a situation where he will is wasting his natural attributes"

give or take that is the comment made on Rhodes from a leeds/west yorkshire perspective.

all the best

Ben

[jim mk2]

I don't think they actually conciously decide to ease off, and I don't think Kean tells them to ease off, they just don't step up a gear when the opposition do. I think they're not capable of raising their game when it's needed for the above reasons.

Rovers usually start matches well and invariably take the lead but then go into their shells when the opposition apply the slightest pressure. Having come down from the Premier League I think teams are wary of us at present but we'll soon get a reputation for being a soft touch under pressure. Managers talk to each other, they will soon have us sussed out and this good start in all likelihood will fade to mid-table mediocrity. It all boils down to the manager of course as has been said countless times before.

[den]

Two ways to look at it. Three goals away from home and some reasonable football for almost half the game. Or, as a proper manager would see it, two goals up and should have been able to control the game, but couldn't do. Rather than dictating the pace of the game and keeping our shape and discipline, while hitting Leeds on the counter, we totally fell apart, conceding three goals - and it could have been more.

[LDRover]

Two of the three goals were definitely fouls against us, poor decisions by the referee.

Neil Swarbrick (the ref in question) is a top bloke as well, used to know him through work as he worked at BAE, not sure if he still does actually. With that in mind he seems a strange appointment for that game.

Not saying that he has a dislike for Rovers, just that he's from Preston.

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

Parsonblue's match report is now published to the front page here.

[den]

If it was a matter of us defending well, but being unlucky with the ref's decisions then fair do's. Apparently though - and I wasn't there - our defending in the second half was woeful. According to Radio Lancs and I think Cryer, we were all over the place at the back.

[chris_h]

If it was a matter of us defending well, but being unlucky with the ref's decisions then fair do's. Apparently though - and I wasn't there - our defending in the second half was woeful. According to Radio Lancs and I think Cryer, we were all over the place at the back.

Not for the first time but I think Scott Dann's injury didn't help. Grant Hanley is feeling his way in and isn't the most steady Centre Back at the best of times.

Steady, if slow improvement over the four league games?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just watched the goals on T.V. Highlights.

First goal probably a foul on Robbo but he didn't deal with the situation too well.

Second a push on the Rovers centre half but whoever it was he seemed to be looking for a foul instead of staying strong. Good volleyed finish from the Leeds player, Robbo beaten all ends up.

Third goal, un-opposed cross from a deep position out wide right ( left winger/left full back were where you ?) our left sided centre back has a free header, he should have headed it high, wide and long ( that's what I was coached to do as a kid ). He actually heads it back to an unmarked Leeds player in the " D " who returns it into the goal mouth. Robbo gets a hand to the ball but he's too deep and the ball creeps into the net.

[den]

Not for the first time but I think Scott Dann's injury didn't help. Grant Hanley is feeling his way in and isn't the most steady Centre Back at the best of times.

Yeah, maybe, but defending has been a massive problem ever since Kean took over. It isn't down to individuals*, it's down to the way the team keeps shape and discipline.

*well actually it possibly is down to individuals, particularly in midfield, who simply can't cope when the opposition runs at them.

[jim mk2]

Etuhu and Murphy were signed as defensive midfielders to offer protection to the back four which they have done to some extent but the goals keep being conceded because of weakness against good crosses and our centre halves not being physically strong enough to deal with them and the robust forwards in this league (Samba please come back). Dann and Givet (admittedly injured yesterday) and Hanley need to impose themselves much more physically on the opposition - especially as referees seem more lenient in this division.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

If it was a matter of us defending well, but being unlucky with the ref's decisions then fair do's. Apparently though - and I wasn't there - our defending in the second half was woeful. According to Radio Lancs and I think Cryer, we were all over the place at the back.

I don't think you can ignore the difference a goal makes - 2-0 at half time is an entirely different proposition to 2-1 with the crowd and players.

[den]

I don't think you can ignore the difference a goal makes - 2-0 at half time is an entirely different proposition to 2-1 with the crowd and players.

Yes, but it happens far too often. How often do we defend well for 90 mins?

[Veevs]

So what's the consensus view on this recurring problem that we sit too deep especially when we get a lead or in the second half? Is it down to the players or the manager? I think it's down to the manager. The plan appears to be that we let the opposition press forward so we can try and hit them on the counter. The problem is that we are so badly organised defensively that we can't withstand the pressure and we capitulate.

Hit them on the break.. except for Olsson that whole side had no pace.. still knowing Kean he would not of thought about that part.

I'm not defending Kean here but I would put our lack of ability to defend a lead down to lack of fitness. We have lacked fitness since the pleb has been manager. Get the squad fit enough to last 90 mins and we will win a lot more matches

Agree that its a contributing factor, 2 players injured within 10minutes and both looked to be muscle injuries to me that is a clear indication that pre-match warmup was either not done correctly or missed out on totally. Then of course so many yet again flagging even at the start of the second half.. no one seems to have the stamina to last out a match.

I thought it was shocking that Givet continued for 80mins with what looked an obvious muscle injury, no wonder the whole defence was all over the place in the second half, I know what its like just from Sunday leagues if the player next to you is injured your head is not on your own game. I just hope that all that time on the pitch injured has not made matters worse we can ill afford to loose our defensive star player. Added to that if I could see it then Warnock could to, and he is not dumb enough to miss a chance to play tactics to take advantage of it.

Got to say we can't play Rhodes in that position and expect him to bag goals, he has no support in there and thrives on having chances (even half chances) created, he is the sort who will score loads but a back to the goal striker he is not (even though he did suprisingly well there we are not going to get the best of him).

Was happy to see Rochina in a more central role for those last 25mins, the way he put that backheal away (with some pace as well) was exceptional and is bound to of helped his confidence, he is still a selfish little lad who lacks composure but when he does something like that you have to admire the skill.

Marcus might of got a goal but he really is not comfortable his crossing and passing make him a liability out there, Lowe simply cant play on the wings, formica works hard and has some skill but again he isnt a winger, Peders did ok yesterday but again he did not push forward enough, he just does not have the pace or stamina to last a full game.

In the middle I feel sorry for Murphy in a way, imo he has been asked to play very deep a fixed role that isnt working.

Overall it was probably our best start and worst finish under Kean saved by a bit of sublime skill at the death.

[adsfortheblues]

Just a point to put forward here, Eric Black doesn't seem to do anything, never seems to get involved in games, as in giving out instructions etc. what does he's do?

[GoneSouth]

It was always going to be a challenge keeping the pressure on the management if we started ok in this league, but it's essential we all remember that kean and venkys are a cancer that goes far deeper than anything that happens on the pitch. The true test of a principled anti-kean and venkys stance may well be coming, requiring a refusal to bend simply because of positive results on the pitch.

What these people have done to our club is unforgivable (and they're still doing it - look at this mysterious Portuguese influx) , and they must never be welcomed as our manager, owners or, indeed, our parasitic, nonsense-spouting "global adviser".

[Hekla]

Just a point to put forward here, Eric Black doesn't seem to do anything, never seems to get involved in games, as in giving out instructions etc. what does he's do?

He probably isn't allowed to do anything. It's all Kean.