[Archived] GAME THREAD–Leeds United v Blackburn Rovers (away)12/13

[thenodrog]

Recriminatory being a better adjective.

[Ewood Spark]

'cognoscenti' huh? My you do do them proud. I find either 'numpty's, 'know nowts' or 'intellectual derelicts' a much better fit.

I'll never forget that match. A group of the above were sat a few rows back in the JW Upper that day screaming hatred and hurling abuse at the manager (in stereo with what seemed half the Blackburn End) just cos we played the ball backwards at 3-0 up with 5 mins remaining. ...

Spot-on Gordon ... I remember being horrified at this early example of "trembleonics" .... Still we shouldn't have worried about any lasting damage ... after all, as we have been told many times on this board, negative vibes from the fans have 'zip-all' effect on what happens on the pitch .... right?

[thenodrog]

Spot-on Gordon ... I remember being horrified at this early example of "trembleonics" .... Still we shouldn't have worried about any lasting damage ... after all, as we have been told many times on this board, negative vibes from the fans have 'zip-all' effect on what happens on the pitch .... right?

Right. I'm not sure how this will be interpreted but imo even though they are professionals negative vibes have little negative effect on the pitch but conversely I believe positive vibes can frequently have a positive effect.

On the other hand ###### stupid vibes bellowed by assorted intellectual derelicts are bound to have a disruptive effect both on and off the pitch. Don't you agree that the playing squad will become disenchanted when their successful efforts against close rivals are met with howls of derision directly aimed at them?

I'm still of the opinion that there were dark forces orchestrating the Anti Allardyce mob back then. I know we'd got a thumping at Man Utd the week before but that almost completed victory over Wolves made it 4 wins out of 6 since the beginning of Nov and we were sitting well OK. That reaction cannot have been spontaineous imo. Whoever was behind it will certainly be pleased with themselves now as they preside over the ruination of Jack Walkers legacy.

[Ricky]

Just going back to this match as I'm pretty sure I didn't get in a time travel maching back to the Wolves thread.

I thought Robbo was poor for the goals. I thought he got beaten from range far too easily last season and he just doesn't seem able to get down as quickly as he did when he was younger. Looks to be carrying a bit mroe weight since those days as well.

I was surprised he stayed and Bunn went to be honest.

[thenodrog]

Just going back to this match as I'm pretty sure I didn't get in a time travel maching back to the Wolves thread.

I thought Robbo was poor for the goals. I thought he got beaten from range far too easily last season and he just doesn't seem able to get down as quickly as he did when he was younger. Looks to be carrying a bit mroe weight since those days as well.

I was surprised he stayed and Bunn went to be honest.

Dont knock Time Machines Ricky cos it appears that you could use one.

5 days ago...

I've no problem with either decision after seeing the goals on tv. Robinson jumped like an absolute fairy for their first. No conviction despite being a bloody big lad. This Div will be contain lots of the physical stuff than our players are used to so they had better shape up or ship out.

Robbo has been a liability for a while. Great goalkeepers don't keep getting relegated. Lovely guy, can't catch and becomes too easily mesmerised at set pieces. Good occasional shot stopper. Hoofball distribution.

He would be the first place a decent manager would start. an £8m keeper would have been a better bet than and £8m forward. He'd be in play more!

[FourLaneBlue]

Raitings:

Robbo - 8 some decent saves. Not much chance with 1st 2 goals, could've done better for the 3rd.

Good report Blue Blood but can't agree with that at all.

Robbo is one of the team's weak links and has been poor for the past few years. The stats of his 2011/2012 compared to the rest of the Prem keepers don't lie.

Him staying and Bunn leaving is a poor decision imo.

[Stuart]

Good report Blue Blood but can't agree with that at all.

Robbo is one of the team's weak links and has been poor for the past few years. The stats of his 2011/2012 compared to the rest of the Prem keepers don't lie.

Him staying and Bunn leaving is a poor decision imo.

You could stick Joe Hart behind last season's "defence" and make similar comments...

[thenodrog]

You could stick Joe Hart behind last season's "defence" and make similar comments...

Joe Who? Lets talk proper keepers should we? I think most people thought Brad Freidal was worth half a dozen points or more a season. That would most likely have kept us up.

Btw He was most peoples MoM last week again! To all those people who thought that idiot Ince's decision to get rid of Brad and bringing Robinson was good business then just last sat we'd have had 2 more points and Norwich would have had all 3 at Spurs. In that context 6 points isn't a wild overestimation is it? Notwithstanding the lunes from Pune JW backing Ince over Brad has prob cost at least 50 million quid up to now!

[FourLaneBlue]

Btw He was most peoples MoM last week again! To all those people who thought that idiot Ince's decision to get rid of Brad and bringing Robinson was good business then just last sat we'd have had 2 more points and Norwich would have had all 3 at Spurs. In that context 6 points isn't a wild overestimation is it? Notwithstanding the lunes from Pune JW backing Ince over Brad has prob cost at least 50 million quid up to now!

That's what's known as a Post Hoc Fallacy, theno.

Still, it certainly has turned out to be a bad deal for us. Even Robbo in his best form for us has not been up to Brad's standard.

However, we wouldn't have been relegated under a proper manager (which we had) whether Robbo was in our goal or not.

[tomphil]

Just going back to this match as I'm pretty sure I didn't get in a time travel maching back to the Wolves thread.

I thought Robbo was poor for the goals. I thought he got beaten from range far too easily last season and he just doesn't seem able to get down as quickly as he did when he was younger. Looks to be carrying a bit mroe weight since those days as well.

I was surprised he stayed and Bunn went to be honest.

I agree he looks like he needs to loose a bit of timber again and he should have done better with the 3rd. The first is a bit suspect as well but he was being fouled by the looks of it. However he seems to be flying out to punch a lot and that again is because no one is commanding the air in the box. Maybe he's been told to do that or maybe he's just panicing a bit but he doesn't get enough on his punches. It's worth pointing out also that at the end of the first half he made 2 excellent saves as well.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

The Leeds commentators were urging their players to cross the ball at every opportunity.....that should tell you all you need to know.

He's a weak link and always has been....and he's never commanded his box enough, he just looks worse under Kean....all keepers would look worse but Robbo is pretty bad a lot of the time.....we have dropped down a division in terms of quality but that means more crosses he will have to deal with which is one of his main weaknesses.

He might make a few world-class saves in a game that others wouldn't but he has clear weaknesses like dealing with crosses and shots from outside the box and good managers/players know how to expose these weaknesses.

[Stuart]

Joe Who? Lets talk proper keepers should we? I think most people thought Brad Freidal was worth half a dozen points or more a season. That would most likely have kept us up.

Btw He was most peoples MoM last week again! To all those people who thought that idiot Ince's decision to get rid of Brad and bringing Robinson was good business then just last sat we'd have had 2 more points and Norwich would have had all 3 at Spurs. In that context 6 points isn't a wild overestimation is it? Notwithstanding the lunes from Pune JW backing Ince over Brad has prob cost at least 50 million quid up to now!

It's probably as well Brad did leave. For himself at least, oh, and for you to make this post. Had he stayed and been in our team last season he may have been shown up too.

At the time I thought that Ince replacing Friedel with Robbo was one of the better (only?) things he did. I did remark at the time that it was probably two years too soon but that you don't always get the choice of perfect timing.

Brad is a one-off - a freak of nature. You only had to watch his pre-match warm up to see his dedication. Robbo won't be as fit as Friedel is at his age unfortunately but I'm not sure we can expect anyone better.

Much like with Shearer, we were spoilt with Brad. The best ever PL striker, goalkeeper and a whisker away from signing its best ever midfielder. Look at us now...

[den]

Much like with Shearer, we were spoilt with Brad. The best ever PL striker, goalkeeper and a whisker away from signing its best ever midfielder. Look at us now...

Brings tears to the eyes just thinking of that. At least we've been there and got the Tee shirt. That's all there is left now thanks to you know who.

[FourLaneBlue]

You could stick Joe Hart behind last season's "defence" and make similar comments...

Could you really?

[RoyRover]

and a whisker away from signing its best ever midfielder.

Roy Keane?

[Stuart]

Yes. Both in my opinion of course!

[Andy]

Could you really?

Yes.

[FourLaneBlue]

Even considering the crappy defence in front of him, his stats are poor.

Last year, he conceded 12 goals from outside the box. Only one other Prem keeper conceded over half that amount.

His saves-to-shots ratio was over 10% lower than any other regular starter in the Prem. Of the shots faced, he saved barely over half of them, 51%. No other keeper that played in more than 6 games had less than a 62% success rate against shots. That's over 10% worse over the course of a 38-game season.

They say there's lies, damned lies and statistics. Ignore ones as damning as that at your peril, however. Against Leeds he was responsible for the 1st and 3rd goals. It doesn't matter if there was a foul on the first...and it doesn't look like much if anything to be honest...he was too easily brushed off the ball whatever. That goal changed the match. The third should be saved by any decent goalkeeper.

http://www.barriesvi...ping-opta-stats

[FourLaneBlue]

Yes. Both in my opinion of course!

Not much else to be said then, is there?

Bit strange why one now plays in the Champions League and the other can't get a move out of The Championship in that case.

[Stuart]

Not much else to be said then, is there?

Bit strange why one now plays in the Champions League and the other can't get a move out of The Championship in that case.

Not that strange at all if you think about it.

One has been allowed to look like a gooseberry and have their confidence and motivation lowered. The other has been allowed time and been able to make clean sheets - which a defence obviously contributes towards - and seen his confidence and motivation soar.

Robbo was (and still is) one of the best English goalkeepers for a long time - that wasn't an accident - with a very high profile mistake on a dodgy pitch costing him and his confidence.

You make the point of no-one wanting him? How do you know this. I'd say half of the PL teams would love to have him but could they afford his wages.

I'm glad we have Robinson as goalkeeper.

[Paul]

Even considering the crappy defence in front of him, his stats are poor.

Last year, he conceded 12 goals from outside the box. Only one other Prem keeper conceded over half that amount.

His saves-to-shots ratio was over 10% lower than any other regular starter in the Prem. Of the shots faced, he saved barely over half of them, 51%. No other keeper that played in more than 6 games had less than a 62% success rate against shots. That's over 10% worse over the course of a 38-game season.

They say there's lies, damned lies and statistics. Ignore ones as damning as that at your peril, however. Against Leeds he was responsible for the 1st and 3rd goals. It doesn't matter if there was a foul on the first...and it doesn't look like much if anything to be honest...he was too easily brushed off the ball whatever. That goal changed the match. The third should be saved by any decent goalkeeper.

http://www.barriesvi...ping-opta-stats

Sums up the modern game for me - and not in a good way. I have little, well no interest at all, in such statistics.

I like Robbo, he's a good keeper, appears to be a decent man and to care about us and the club. That'll do for me, means more than a pitchful of statistics.

Against Leicester he arguably won us the game, I haven't seen it but some say he cost us a win at Leeds. That's a point gained thanks to Robbo.

What happens now is the only valid statistic. Is he playing well? Pick him for the team. Playing badly? Drop him. Easy.

[den]

There's only one stat that matters when judging a 'keeper - mistakes. The best keepers make the fewest mistakes.

[FourLaneBlue]

deleted

[FourLaneBlue]

d

[den]

I don't know who or why anyone embarrassed you FLB, but if it was me, then I'll expand on my comment a bit more.

Stats like "he conceded 12 goals from outside the box. Only one other Prem keeper conceded over half that amount." are meaningless. Maybe the shots that the other keepers saved were a decent height or without real power - who knows? Likewise with the stat that "His saves-to-shots ratio was over 10% lower than any other regular starter in the Prem. Of the shots faced, he saved barely over half of them, 51%. No other keeper that played in more than 6 games had less than a 62% success rate against shots. That's over 10% worse over the course of a 38-game season." You can't attach anything to that unless all the shots quoted were comparable - and obviously they're not.

Like I said, you can only judge 'keepers by the number of mistakes they make - and even that is subjective. I think we would all accept that the number of mistakes Friedel made during a season could be counted on one hand and that's why Robinson isn't fit to lace Brad's boots. Unlike outfield players keepers can't hide. They have to deal with situations. If they're not making mistakes then they're dealing well with what's in front of them.