[Archived] Do we really have the look of a Promotion Club?

[tonygreenbank]

I'm beginning to feel sorry for you now. Everyone clutches at straws but you seem to be unable to deal with the reality. Our squad is operating flat out. It has very little quality and every injury is a disaster with players played out of position and players having little idea of even some of the basics of how to carry the game to the opposition.

Quality -Okay who? Just tell me.

Murphy? he's 6 years past Shebby's pensionable age and gets forward less than Dunny. Legs must have a million miles on them and he's relied for 3 years on players to cover for him and quick wingers and full backs at Fulham to go forward. Gomez? Was great but again no legs. He needs quick players around him too - we don't have any.

Only Givet, Nzonzi and Olsson are top 3 Championship players and 2 of those are on sale. The squad has the weirdest set of factions I've ever heard about, a few love Keano, half want away and an increasing number arrive from overseas and join the 'How did I end up here' category '- my uncle said I'd be moving to a top club.'

I can't believe your a 'let's just sit back and believe,' not the rubbish we're told.

I don't think you've seen a game recently have you? Look maybe you've overdosed on the teletubbies? LaLa and all that?

Or are you a wind up merchant?

I think you need to reread Braddocks post. It has a balanced view which you seem incapable of understanding!

[TBTF]

We won't get promoted with Kean in charge. For an endless list of reasons...

I'm not saying the rest of the club is bad, but it's certainly behind where we were with the Trust in charge. The academy news is encouraging, however we haven't got the top status yet. The investment does seem puzzling in that after championing the academy players last season, we now seem to be filling the squad with Portugesers, blocking chances for those praised 4 months ago.

God there goes another £8 million plus a fortune in wages for Rhodes-its getting scary and we havent found out why they are splashing the cash now only months after we really needed to spend to stay up

[braddock]

Braddock- the message board's very own Steve Kean

Philipl - the message board's very own Harold Camping.

[philipl]

Philipl - the message board's very own Harold Camping.

That's an equivalence I have never had before and doubt I ever will again in the future. Difficult to think of anyone more diametrically the opposite of me so I will give you a pass for being ironic...

Thank you Bessie

[Pedro]

That's an equivalence I have never had before and doubt I ever will again in the future. Difficult to think of anyone more diametrically the opposite of me so I will give you a pass for being ironic...

Thank you Bessie

Haha it's a bloody good comparison to be fair! How many dates of impending doom have we missed?

[Guest Rovers4Good]

From a personal point of view i think the club is being run like a pub team (no desrespect to pub teams) but i really do think we've got a squad which will be able to get into the play offs but at present we're not a premiership team for sure and we're playing like scared children.

The last 2 games the players don't look like they even know each other

God there goes another £8 million plus a fortune in wages for Rhodes-its getting scary and we havent found out why they are splashing the cash now only months after we really needed to spend to stay up

Beggars belief where is all this money coming from now we've been relegated?

[braddock]

Haha it's a bloody good comparison to be fair! How many dates of impending doom have we missed?

I don't think philipl realised exactly what the comparison was, given his response.

Kudos for understanding.

[philipl]

Crikey, there are some people on this thread who don't think the last 20 months have been an unmitigated disaster.

[RoyRover]

Beggars belief where is all this money coming from now we've been relegated?

Very worrying. Especially if we don't get promoted.

[Blue blood]

Verbal sparring aside it raises a very interesting question. How good are we?

Personally I think the squad is thin but the team is good. A bit unbalanced in places perhaps, but despite all the atrocities that have gone on I think most managers would think they could do something with this team.

The big difference between being a promotion team or not is Kean.

With a decent manager developing and coaching players, giving them roles which suit them, and using the right tactics I feel we could get a lot out of the following players:

(Ignoring Olsson mk 1 & N'Zonzi who're probably off.)

Robbo - prem class keeper. will make a few clangers but also a few game changing saves - probably a cut above most if not all goalies at this level.

Givet - best centre back in this division by a country mile. Good at this level at lb too as there's less pace to bother him.

Dann & Hanley are both more than solid players at this level. Hanley with a run of games last season started to look decent, and Dann with some proper coaching to stop him going awol could really develop into a good player. Regardless both are more than adequate at this level.

Orr - a plank but certainly comfortable at this level.

Lowe with a bit of coaching and played in the right position and kept there (right back or centre mid for me) he could be a good player, definately the case at championship level. Most teams in our division would love to have someone with his potential here.

Dickson - looked solid. Probably still a premiership level player.

Murphy - could do the Tugay role with the right people around him, in the right formation.

Pedersen - looked promising again towards the end of the Allardyce era and does have a lot of talent (if often usused), At a lower level he really should be capable of turning out some good performances.

Nuno Gomes - great option to bring off the bench to add a bit of guile. Again with the right formation/players around him could be dangerous.

Kazim Richards - probably should be playing at a higher standard, very useful to have especially at right wing.

Rochina - right coaching & drilling in the basics = top star. poor coaching = show pony of no use to anyone.

Rhodes & Best - solid championship strikers capable of getting goals at this level, especially with decent service.

To me that's the nuclius of a squad that can push for promotion. Under a different manager perhaps Olsson & N'Zonzi would stay, making the squad even stronger.

But regardless of this there is more than enough potential in that team to do well. Sure we look a bit vulnerable to injuries, mainly because the squad is made up of Portugese no-marks, but any manager in the championship would be happy with that as his starting squad.

Problem is under Kean:

We don't use a formation to take into account Nuno Gomes & Murphy's age.

Poor training will stop Hanley & Lowe developing into decent players.

Not teaching the basics will leave Dann and Rochina in particular not reaching their potential.

Kean's patiently shown he cannot get the best out of Pedersen.

Problem is that weakens the squad so, so much. Rather than having a dangerous look about it, we instead have a team which is nowhere near fulfilling it's potential and any team would fancy beating.

It's amazing just how much damage one man weasel(Kean) can do. Change him and I'd be very optimistic of pushing for the playoffs.

[braddock]

Crikey, there are some people on this thread who don't think the last 20 months have been an unmitigated disaster.

But doomsday it is not.

[philipl]

But doomsday it is not.

We would not survive another 20 months of what we have just gone through so doomsday it certainly is.

[braddock]

We would not survive another 20 months of what we have just gone through so doomsday it certainly is.

Cease to exist entirely?

And I don't believe we will have another 20 months of what we've been through. I don't think we'll get back to where we were, but we won't keep plumetting and then cease to exist.

At least acknowledge that my comparison wasn't totally incomprehendable.

[Hasta]

A lot of peoples perceptions of how good a squad we are seems to revolve around people proving what they haven't shown so far which is worrying. There's a lot of people who look at our squad with rose tinted spectacles. Remember in order to get our of the championship and into the Premier League, the players should theoretically be Premier League class. Being "OK at this level" means that your a Championship quality player who may not be good enough to get out of it.

Looking through the first team my reckoning is:-

Hanley - I admit at times he has looked promising. However the facts are that he was centre half in a team that won only 4 of the 25 league games he played in shipping a huge amount of goals. He is so unproven it is untrue and is more likely to end up in the football league in 5 years time than in the Premier League. Potential is there yes but to think he is better than this level off what we have seen is bonkers.

Lowe - Again can't fault his attitude but his general play last season wasn't good enough. I know he's not a full back but I didn't honestly see much that tells me he is any better than a Championship player.

Orr - Has a mean cross on him but after the honeymoon period of about 4 games looked shakey at the back. Played a significant number of games for QPR when they walked this league but again has quite a bit to prove.

Marcus Ollson - If his was called Mark Holson and had no relatives here he wouldn't be in the Championship.

MGP - Produces on moment of brilliance every so often but then you have to wait months for the next one. Shabby made an arse of himself with the comments but the point was valid. Too slow and doesn't contribute enough from open play.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

A lot of peoples perceptions of how good a squad we are seems to revolve around people proving what they haven't shown so far which is worrying. There's a lot of people who look at our squad with rose tinted spectacles. Remember in order to get our of the championship and into the Premier League, the players should theoretically be Premier League class. Being "OK at this level" means that your a Championship quality player who may not be good enough to get out of it.

Looking through the first team my reckoning is:-

Hanley - I admit at times he has looked promising. However the facts are that he was centre half in a team that won only 4 of the 25 league games he played in shipping a huge amount of goals. He is so unproven it is untrue and is more likely to end up in the football league in 5 years time than in the Premier League. Potential is there yes but to think he is better than this level off what we have seen is bonkers.

Lowe - Again can't fault his attitude but his general play last season wasn't good enough. I know he's not a full back but I didn't honestly see much that tells me he is any better than a Championship player.

Orr - Has a mean cross on him but after the honeymoon period of about 4 games looked shakey at the back. Played a significant number of games for QPR when they walked this league but again has quite a bit to prove.

Marcus Ollson - If his was called Mark Holson and had no relatives here he wouldn't be in the Championship.

MGP - Produces on moment of brilliance every so often but then you have to wait months for the next one. Shabby made an arse of himself with the comments but the point was valid. Too slow and doesn't contribute enough from open play.

With a half-decent manager though, we will look so much stronger as a team and as individuals......to use Norwich again as an example, how many predicted they would stay up last year, let alone finish mid-table....pretty comfortably in the end and they spent the last couple of months trying out different formations and tactics.......quite a few members of their team came from League 1.....but with a decent manager it didn't matter.

Hanley is raw but very young as a defender and CB's especially need a run in the team next to the same partner......we lost that many games and conceded that many because of Kean mainly.....Samba didn't win many and conceded a lot as well.....how many clean sheets did we keep with him in the side under Kean?....3, at home to Newcastle (0-0), away at Arsenal (0-0) and at home to West Brom (2-0).

I don't know what to make of Lowe.....he tries I suppose, I don't mind him too much at RB if he is there, I just can't comprehend why Henley doesn't play there instead.....maybe Bruno will be our main RB this year with a new LB once Olsson leaves.

Orr didn't excel for us last year but he didn't receive much protection from whoever was being played out of position ahead of him at RM.....Formica, Goodwillie, Modeste, whoever......he's fine at this level, he might be off anyway.

Marcus Olsson has been one of our best players this season.....his end product often comes up short but he's so quick that he'll get into good positions quite often.....he's not a bad footballer ability wise, it's just his decision making......a real manager with a proper coaching set up could get the best out of him....under Kean, he can still be a threat....nobody likes defending against pace.

If MGP keeps providing moments of match quality like the other day. he'd be one of the first names on my team sheet....but I doubt he will.