[Archived] Champions League 2012/13

[roverandout]

we all have kean to thank for jonesy

[thenodrog]

I am pretty anti Venkys but I think we got a fair fee for Jones.

Do you? Well good luck to any club that tries to buy him back for the same amount. Fergy would spit in their eye.

[Eddie]

That's not really the point though, is it? At the time that we sold him we got a good fee, a record setting fee. Of course he would be more expensive now that he is at Old Trafford and is a couple of years older, but that isn't really what is being discussed.

Would he command a higher fee now if you stuck him in our side and we had to sell him? Possibly, but not by much. We did well.

Always a shame to see good players go, especially young ones, but we have to be realistic about the size of the club and the fact that it is very difficult for us to hold onto players of that quality.

[thenodrog]

10 years before we sold Phil Jones.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/2140871.stm

[den]

It was a good fee if you didn't understand how good a player he was.

[LeChuck]

10 years before we sold Phil Jones.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/2140871.stm

Ferdinand had played nearly 200 professional games and was already into double figures for England caps...

Jones' figure looks about right at the moment. He's still very much in the "has potential" bracket as opposed to being a proven player.

[Baz]

What could we have got if someone hadnt put a stupidly low release clause in his contract?

At least 2 clubs matched it, and how many others would have been interested too?

I know forwards bring a premium but only 6 months earlier Liverpool spent £35m on Carroll, and they spent £22m on Henderson, both IMO lesser rated prospects.

[den]

Ferdinand had played nearly 200 professional games and was already into double figures for England caps...

Jones' figure looks about right at the moment. He's still very much in the "has potential" bracket as opposed to being a proven player.

You havin a larf LeC? His figure seems about right? Not a proven player?

Stunned at that mate.

[Amo]

What could we have got if someone hadnt put a stupidly low release clause in his contract?

That 'stupidly low release clause' was the difference between him signing a new contract or not.

[den]

That 'stupidly low release clause' was the difference between him signing a new contract or not.

Says who? The release clause was likely put in by the club. Rovers have done that before, while Nicko said that was the case with Jones as well.

[Amo]

Says who? The release clause was likely put in by the club. Rovers have done that before, while Nicko said that was the case with Jones as well.

A low release clause benefits the player, not the club, so how does that work? They could've just set it at something stupid like £30m if that was the case. Obviously the release clause would've been negotiated by the club and the agent to give Jones some leeway should a big club come a knockin'.

Just look at Demba Ba.

[G Somerset Rover]

Not much consolation, but we're due another £2 million for jones when United win the league in May.

[den]

A low release clause benefits the player, not the club, so how does that work? They could've just set it at something stupid like £30m if that was the case. Obviously the release clause would've been negotiated by the club and the agent to give Jones some leeway should a big club come a knockin'.

Just look at Demba Ba.

The release clause was likely requested by the club. There is an obvious reason why a club would ask for one to be inserted. To say that Jones wouldn't have signed a new contract without a release clause is just you guessing.

[Baz]

That 'stupidly low release clause' was the difference between him signing a new contract or not.

He was already under contract at that point.

[Amo]

The release clause was likely requested by the club. There is an obvious reason why a club would ask for one to be inserted. To say that Jones wouldn't have signed a new contract without a release clause is just you guessing.

It's not guessing, it's deduction, dear Watson. It doesn't make sense to insert a release clause that undervalues the player - UNLESS the player himself had some involvement with it as a prerequisite for signing the deal. And I'm afraid the 'it's Venky's *comedy shrug*' excuse just doesn't wash.

[Baz]

It's not guessing, it's deduction, dear Watson. It doesn't make sense to insert a release clause that undervalues the player - UNLESS the player himself had some involvement with it as a prerequisite for signing the deal. And I'm afraid the 'it's Venky's *comedy shrug*' excuse just doesn't wash.

Who was sleeping at Brockhole when his new contract was signed?

[Eddie]

He was always going to be a good player, but we got a good fee. Teenage defenders don't usually command £20m. He's also been plagued by injuries over the last 18 months, had that happened here we would have been in trouble. Also, let's not forget, it's quite easy to look good in this United side. He is clearly a very good player, but no one plays in that side and looks bad.

Comparing it to the Ferdinand fee is dumb. Ferdinand had played in more premier league games, the champions league and a world cup at the time United bought him and was far more proven. When they were buying Jones they were buying a prospect, which is what he still is, when they were buying Ferdinand they were pretty much buying the complete article.

[thenodrog]

Comparing it to the Ferdinand fee is dumb. Ferdinand had played in more premier league games, the champions league and a world cup at the time United bought him and was far more proven. When they were buying Jones they were buying a prospect, which is what he still is, when they were buying Ferdinand they were pretty much buying the complete article.

Dumb? You are the dumb one. Read the link again and you'll find that I was comparing Jones's value to 10 years previously when Leeds paid West ham £18+ million for Ferdinands services. By that time he had only had played bit parts on the international scene. The 30+m transfer was two years later when he went to MU and only serves to back up the claim that Man Utd got a bargain.

[den]

He was always going to be a good player, but we got a good fee. Teenage defenders don't usually command £20m. He's also been plagued by injuries over the last 18 months, had that happened here we would have been in trouble. Also, let's not forget, it's quite easy to look good in this United side. He is clearly a very good player, but no one plays in that side and looks bad.

Comparing it to the Ferdinand fee is dumb. Ferdinand had played in more premier league games, the champions league and a world cup at the time United bought him and was far more proven. When they were buying Jones they were buying a prospect, which is what he still is, when they were buying Ferdinand they were pretty much buying the complete article.

You don't half talk rubbish sometimes Eddie. You would think Jones was just a young lad who had caught the eye with a few early performances. Jones had been watched by Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs - who all wanted to sign him. Your argument that we got a good fee for him doesn't stand up when you look at that and also the fact that Liverpool had already made one bid of £22m. As for Ferdinand - why did they get £30m for him? Well that's an easy one isn't it. It's nothing to do with appearances or caps, it's because Leeds wanted £35m for him. If Leeds had asked £16m for him, that's what he would have gone for. We got the fee that we got, because that's what the Raos thought he was worth. They knew what they were doing didn't they - they thought they could get more than that.

[den]

It's not guessing, it's deduction, dear Watson. It doesn't make sense to insert a release clause that undervalues the player - UNLESS the player himself had some involvement with it as a prerequisite for signing the deal. And I'm afraid the 'it's Venky's *comedy shrug*' excuse just doesn't wash.

It's a guess. Who knows what Jones would have been happy with? Not you, not I.

[Amo]

It's a guess.

An educated one.

[donnermeat]

These Gazprom adverts do my head in!

[Eddie]

You don't half talk rubbish sometimes Eddie. You would think Jones was just a young lad who had caught the eye with a few early performances. Jones had been watched by Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs - who all wanted to sign him. Your argument that we got a good fee for him doesn't stand up when you look at that and also the fact that Liverpool had already made one bid of £22m. As for Ferdinand - why did they get £30m for him? Well that's an easy one isn't it. It's nothing to do with appearances or caps, it's because Leeds wanted £35m for him. If Leeds had asked £16m for him, that's what he would have gone for. We got the fee that we got, because that's what the Raos thought he was worth. They knew what they were doing didn't they - they thought they could get more than that.

Watched by? Half the world is watched by big clubs these days. Rhodes was watched by United, but a lot of people feel that we overpaid when we stumped up £8m. Did we overpay for a player who was being watched by United?

Leeds United were a much bigger club than we were, they had a much better chance of holding onto Ferdinand and they were in a much better position to demand a high fee and hold out for it. He goes down as one of the most expensive defenders of all time and as the most expensive teenager of all time (I believe).

Will he be worth more? Absolutely, but that is football. Jordan Rhodes will have been worth more if we go up, but Huddersfield got a good fee at £8m. I thought we did poorly when we sold Duff, but as it turns out that was pretty much the peak of his market value and the same goes for Bentley.

By the time Ferdinand signed for Leeds he was a full England international who had played over 100 times for West Ham, that was nowhere near the case for Jones. Experience counts and first team appearances count. We got a decent fee for Jones. He will be worth more, but at the time that we sold him we did reasonably well and certainly can't complain.

[speeeeeeedie]

It is early days yet but Arsenal are getting absolutely hammered by Bayern Munich. It's 2-0 so far without Munich trying too hard.

Wilshere won't be there for long if Arsenal stay like this. He is too good for them.

Arsenal need a new keeper. 4 defenders. a midfield enforcer, and a decent striker.

[K-Hod]

They've just been given their second footballing lesson in 4 days