[Archived] Broken Britain - Trouble on the Estate

[thenodrog]

More contraceptive machines lol

Significant cash incentives for vasectomy's / sterilisation at anything over the legal age would improve the situation massively in both the short and the long term.

[Gav]

Got to say the program got me angry, what a load of old rubbish. If they’d gone up on to Shadsworth estate in the 80’s they’d have had some substance and something to report, but those kids and family’s last night are typical of low income family’s.

So the kids threw a few stones and people sold Whizz, big what does that mean? deal, in the 80’s we had the odd race riot, heroin on sale on the street corners and shootings!

The other issue with the program was the people who it focused on were not even from Blackburn!

Load of old rubbish.

[thenodrog]

Got to say the program got me angry, what a load of old rubbish. If they’d gone up on to Shadsworth estate in the 80’s they’d have had some substance and something to report, but those kids and family’s last night are typical of low income family’s.

So the kids threw a few stones and people sold Whizz, big what does that mean? deal, in the 80’s we had the odd race riot, heroin on sale on the street corners and shootings!

The other issue with the program was the people who it focused on were not even from Blackburn!

Load of old rubbish.

Really? Unless heroin and other Class A drugs are completely unavailable in Shad then so is your opinion Gav.

[Gav]

Really? Unless heroin and other Class A drugs are completely unavailable in Shad then so is your opinion Gav.

Thats a strange take on things, I think the point being made is more about dealers pushing heroin on street corners, the place being a no-go zone for many back in 80’s, its not like that today, you should come out of your ivory tower and have look around the place

[Gav]

Just a mention to hardly1980 (and GAV, to a small extent)...

Not sure why you've got a big chip on your shoulder about the program. They repeatedly stated that there are hundreds of other estates up and down the country that are similar to Shad. You seem to believe the media just enjoys targeting Blackburn in general. And they also made many references to it being a handful of households that are like this.

The whole point of the program was not about Blackburn but about "Broken Britain". Highlighting the hopelessness that does exist in society and the attitudes that some people take to a society they just don't believe in.

And all you have to say is "big bad BBC"? It's a documentary to expose real issues in society today. Not something just to p*ss licence payers off.

The program was rubbish, it told us nothing we didn't already know, it wasn't a Blackburn thing at all.

The families involved are probably better behaved than I was when I was younger and I assume many more on this site, it offered nothing of substance that was my point.

[K-Hod]

Just a mention to hardly1980 (and GAV, to a small extent)...

Not sure why you've got a big chip on your shoulder about the program. They repeatedly stated that there are hundreds of other estates up and down the country that are similar to Shad. You seem to believe the media just enjoys targeting Blackburn in general. And they also made many references to it being a handful of households that are like this.

The whole point of the program was not about Blackburn but about "Broken Britain". Highlighting the hopelessness that does exist in society and the attitudes that some people take to a society they just don't believe in.

And all you have to say is "big bad BBC"? It's a documentary to expose real issues in society today. Not something just to p*ss licence payers off.

Agree with this. People got a bit sensitive about the whole thing (check Wayne Wild's twitter feed, the man's on a one man crusade) and have misinterpreted things. At no point did they say 'worst estate in the country'- they said 'one of' at the very beginning admittedly. They featured a load of pond life happy to sit around ambitionless, and a few people in employment. I felt a bit sorry for the guy who earned £100 a week cleaning, but when it showed him shopping at Iceland buying a donner kebab pizza and all frozen foods it was cringeworthy.

Of course it was heavily sensationalised, but if it wasn't- would anyone have tuned in??

[Gav]

Maybe I'm a bit naive then. I found it alarming that people do exist whereby they think sending their kids to school is a bad thing, smoking in front of them is not an issue and getting on the bus every couple of months to monitor progress while you're on benefits is unacceptable. The woman is obviously in a frame of mind for a reason but the word "hopeless" comes to mind. Hope... Something that many people have and many people, unfortunately, don't have.

What's the solution? Nobody seems to know, unfortunately. Cutting benefits is not a solution - it's just reversing something that's already been tried. It's clear to me that a lot of money to benefit kids is not going towards their future at all. The government needs to focus on support for the kids and, more importantly, ensuring that they get that support.

The kids cannot help how they are raised or where they live, particularly if the adults have no hope for anything.

I didn't have a problem with the program and it opened up my eyes a bit to what situations are going on in the country.

I think you may well be a little naive Tombro, nothing wrong with that by the way, but the program last night was lame in my view and I'd have said the same had it been filmed on Stoops estate in burnley.

[Mike Graham]

I didn't know that frozen doner kebabs existed until I watched the programme last night.....do people really eat this stuff?

[Ricky]

I was more intrigued by the donner kebab and cheeseburger pizzas they showed.

thought it was pretty poor to be fair. Just a few asbo kids playing up and some lazy arsed parents who didn't want to work as "I need to go the shops in the morning"

[Steve Moss]

The families involved are probably better behaved than I was when I was younger and I assume many more on this site, it offered nothing of substance that was my point.

If this is true, then you should see a decrease in the number of families on benefits as the "better behaved" recipients transfer to work.

[PAFELL]

Maybe I'm a bit naive then. I found it alarming that people do exist whereby they think sending their kids to school is a bad thing, smoking in front of them is not an issue and getting on the bus every couple of months to monitor progress while you're on benefits is unacceptable. The woman is obviously in a frame of mind for a reason but the word "hopeless" comes to mind. Hope... Something that many people have and many people, unfortunately, don't have.

What's the solution? Nobody seems to know, unfortunately. Cutting benefits is not a solution - it's just reversing something that's already been tried. It's clear to me that a lot of money to benefit kids is not going towards their future at all. The government needs to focus on support for the kids and, more importantly, ensuring that they get that support.

The kids cannot help how they are raised or where they live, particularly if the adults have no hope for anything.

I didn't have a problem with the program and it opened up my eyes a bit to what situations are going on in the country.

Can you imagine the reception that women will get next time she goes to the job centre.

How anybody can expect those kids to make good in life is beyond me. No role models. Trapped more like it. Both sad and sick to be honest that this does happen throughtout the country. I did not know folk had to go and do parent classes - after the child is born.

I must be a tidy up freak. One thing I noticed was how untidy and dirty everything was.

If you at home, no work. You must have time on your hands to do normal domestic stuff.

I won't mock depression though. It is laughed at by some, but not me.

Often when I see a programe such as that I wonder what the local community could do to help change things for the better. We had a situation in our street, where some dodgy removal blokes drove off with an old womens property during a house move. She was left with nothing. Her husband had died a few months earlier. A few of us from the pub got together, went round various charity places, got this and that and set her home up for her. Now she has got more friends and folk looking out for her than she had ever had before.

I think when we are talking about benefits, we often forget that there are genuine folk out there, due to no fault of the own, do need help. Yet they gat targetted with the rip off merchants.

[T.J.Newton]

And all you have to say is "big bad BBC"? It's a documentary to expose real issues in society today. Not something just to p*ss licence payers off.

thats not all i have to say, thats all i could be arsed saying on a football forum.

The doc was very poorly made, almost totally 1 sided and clearly made by a journo trying to make a name for himself(but Nick Broomfield he is not), seemed like it was filmed quickly within a week without anty substantial research or planning, all the kids where doing was seeing the camera crew and playing up as all kids do and the older kids they spoke too(jessie and his pathetic little sidekick) are just a few oddball muppets that happened to be hangin around and dont represent the majority of older teenagers in the area at all.

Personally i think having to do at least 10 hours voluntary work should be a requirement to claim job-seekers allowance, it would give work experience and a potential job reference and also instil some work ethic into those with none(or little), it would keep those that are genuinely just in-between jobs on their toes and stop them getting idle and losing interest in work, They would also be helping, contributing and actually be part of the community instead of just leaching of it.

p.s. the women that said the reason she wouldnt start work was becuse she took her anti depresants at night and it would make it difficult to get up early(which is a bs excuse as you can just start takin the anti d in the morning or any other time of day) but then 5 mins later was seen finishing of a bottle of red at night, hhmmmm really its the pills making her feel rough in mornings is it(my arse!!!).

[perthblue02]

Unfortunately such a one sided documentary (just watched it on iplayer) . Worked on Shad estate for about 4 years in the late 90"s and occasional after that and still know a few people who live there. Granted a lot can change in 10 years but there were a hell of a lot more decent people who live there than was portrayed and a lot more who actually worked for a living most in low paid jobs (usually end up a lot worse off than not working).

Seemed to avoid showing the decent area's of the estate in favour of the parts with troubles.

Think people have said earlier could have been filmed in any town, unfortunately they chose Shad and chose the bad side in the final edit

BTW That place Fernhurst in the programme for the troubled kids is that what was Bank Hey ( Blackburn House) off Heyes lane?

[Stuart]

We had a situation in our street, where some dodgy removal blokes drove off with an old womens property during a house move. She was left with nothing. Her husband had died a few months earlier. A few of us from the pub got together, went round various charity places, got this and that and set her home up for her. Now she has got more friends and folk looking out for her than she had ever had before.

I think when we are talking about benefits, we often forget that there are genuine folk out there, due to no fault of the own, do need help. Yet they gat targetted with the rip off merchants.

I wish we could see this side of you more often...

[T.J.Newton]

You complained that the show was a "waste of a licence fee". By that measure, would you want them to spend just a week on it to save your costs? Or would you like them to spend a month or more on it to provide a better informed documentary?

You've mentioned their "lack of research"... Did you know your lack of research has undone you? It was filmed for over a month.

To be frank I think you've missed the whole point of the documentary. You've taken the whole thing to heart, probably even before the documentary was even aired, instead of watching it to realise that people like that woman and the other family do exist in society. I'd say your contributions should be aimed at them rather than waving your fists angrily at the BBC. I really don't understand how this has gotten to you!

You are a strange one, i don't even think your naive(just a silly and arrogant) .

and i lived in the middle of shad estate for over25 years, only moving away recently so i know exactly what the problems are already(as do most sensible adults in the uk without the need of this silly doc).

O and the fact that they claim to have spent over a month on the estate, yet nobody ive spoken to really Knew about them(other than a fe fague rumours) or so them and the only outside footage they aired was of a few kids playin football, ridding there bikes, play fighting for the cameras and couple of seconds of some So-called 'dealers' selling what could have been anything(but actual illegal drugs).

[adopted scouser]

You were free to answer my points about your own contradiction and inaccuracy but instead you chose to get defensive. Seems to be the tone of all your posts. I guess we'll leave it at that, then.

In response to your other point, I work with people from Stockport/Oldham/Altrincham, you name it... they all watched it... and all said it was an eye opener. I'd say they're intelligent, sensible people. Just because they weren't exposed to living on an estate and haven't experienced people like that woman, it doesn't make them stupid or insensible.

I'd rather society pinpointed the problems it needs to resolve than pretend they don't exist for the sake of pride.

So far, for having an opinion on here, you've called someone a d*ck head and called me arrogant and silly. It's a message board for posting opinions, not slinging mud.

Well said ET. In relation to your comments I lived in that Shadsworth toilet for a couple of years, and now in Altrincham, and yes was called a d***head. I am intelligent and sensible as are you, mud slung from a dyslexic won't stick mate.

[colin]

An interesting debate.

Let's face it that the producers of the programme wouldn't have had much of inerest if they had filmed 95% of the inhabitants just going about their normal lives, not troubling anyone and not having "problems." The producers had to focus on the 5% who had serious problems and had to dress them all up. Otherwise the programme would have been entitled " Shadsworth Estate In Blackburn, Not Much To Report Really, Watch Something Else."

A similar opinion is http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/13/film-makers-trouble-on-the-estate?INTCMP=SRCH

Food for thought perhaps?

[jim mk2]

Family lived on Shadsworth 50 years ago and it wasn't a "toilet" then and it isn't a toilet now. One wonders about the motivations of the programme's producers a minor problem at the bottom end of society - was Duncan Smith and the Tory right-wing the sponsors by any chance ? Now can we have a documentary on the real scandal - namely the tax avoidance schemes the wealthy continue to enjoy while the rest of the country suffers from ever increasing and unnecessary cutbacks to public servies and jobs ?

[perthblue02]

Jim if you are bringing politics into this Who has been in control of Blackburn (minus a couple of years here and there) since the 40's, Which party was in control of Blackburn when it was agreed to advertise council houses in some of the worse parts of the British Isles and agreed to take problem families from these areas to fill up council houses in Blackburn?, Who agreed to sell off the Blackburn council houses to a private company at a ridiculous low price? Who was in charge of Blackburn when large community areas where terraced houses could have been done up more economically than being demolished where destroyed and therefore destroying working class communities ?

I'm not a Tory by any stretch of the imagination nor am I in the frame of mind that the Labour Party represents the working class having had many a run in with them when I lived there.

[thenodrog]

This was already done in May, Jim. See here. It took two seconds to Google "panorama tax avoidance" to find out.

I think most people will be aware that this isn't representative of most people on Shad or any other estate. I just thought it was an interesting program highlighting an issue that exists.

I'd just done that when I saw your post.

Surely logic dictates that if there were no rich i.e. wealth and job creators then we'd all be poor and the country would descend to 3rd world level? Jim your jealousy is all consuming. You need to take on board the fact that the most effective method to kill any parasite is to kill the host.

[jim mk2]

I'd just done that when I saw your post.

Surely logic dictates that if there were no rich i.e. wealth and job creators then we'd all be poor and the country would descend to 3rd world level? Jim your jealousy is all consuming. You need to take on board the fact that the most effective method to kill any parasite is to kill the host.

I'm not sure how wanting the rich to pay their taxes amounts to "jealousy". I think I'm not much different from most people in that I don't care how much money people at the top earn as long as they pay their dues, which is 45 per cent tax the same as all other higher-rate taxpayers. As for the rest of your post it's not even worthy of comment except to say GCSE economics must never have been your strong point.

[OJRovers]

Jim - some would say that the people paying millions in tax (even if reduced by avoidance schemes) are more than "paying their dues" to society.

You would rather welcome a non-working benefit claimant into the country, rather than a high net worth individual who would pay high tax and bring jobs and enterprise to the country?

[JAL]

Hasnt the Cobham defence plant (ex ROF) just shut down on Shadsworth industrial estate and transfered its business to Scotland.

Looks like its getting even harder for the Shadsworth people and surrounding areas to get employment up there.

Changing areas to Darwen, 120 people are about to lose their jobs next month at St.Regis paper mill, formerly known as Hollins paper mill. As they transfer production to another part of the country but not the staff.

Just were are these wealth creators ?

[jim mk2]

Jim - some would say that the people paying millions in tax (even if reduced by avoidance schemes) are more than "paying their dues" to society.

You would rather welcome a non-working benefit claimant into the country, rather than a high net worth individual who would pay high tax and bring jobs and enterprise to the country?

All immigrants are welcome as long as they find employment and pay their taxes.

Just were are these wealth creators ?

"Wealth creators" for whom ? Certainly not for the majority of workers at these former factories who are paying the price for a failed government policy of continuing cutbacks and no plans for economic growth.

[T.J.Newton]

You were free to answer my points about your own contradiction and inaccuracy but instead you chose to get defensive. Seems to be the tone of all your posts. I guess we'll leave it at that, then.

In response to your other point, I work with people from Stockport/Oldham/Altrincham, you name it... they all watched it... and all said it was an eye opener. I'd say they're intelligent, sensible people. Just because they weren't exposed to living on an estate and haven't experienced people like that woman, it doesn't make them stupid or insensible.

I'd rather society pinpointed the problems it needs to resolve than pretend they don't exist for the sake of pride.

So far, for having an opinion on here, you've called someone a d*ck head and called me arrogant and silly. It's a message board for posting opinions, not slinging mud.

Christ!!!(or Should i say Thomo) i didn't even come on here for a debate(its mainly a football forum after all), just really came on the thread to say that i thought the doc was very poorly made, almost totally one sided, unrepresentative of the neighbourhood as a whole and the makers clearly before filming even started new they only wanted to find a few unpleasant images and oddballs that would get viewers in.

Anybody that felt what they so was "an eye opener" by must live in a cosy little middle class bubble somwhere as the problems that where dwelled upon in the show are no different to what you will always find on any council/housing estate or just general poor area(even some nicer areas) in any part of the country to varying degrees, in the case of shad the problems id say are quite moderate, but in the Programme they where magnified out of proportion which is not right becuse there are many very proud home owners and residents in the area that will now have an un-justified stigma attached to them because of where they live.

I haven't got anything else to add, sorry if i havnt responded to ever little daily mail reader type opinion of El Thomos(of which he has many of #yawn).